Privacy Update? Please?

That is an awesome idea! It would actually encourage community and exploration. Even if I am in a public area, like Serenite ... I could tell the difference between two avatars that would prefer to be alone from two that are just out exploring like me!

Notice how you use the qualifiers "probably" and "pretty"? That's exactly because faking being offline AT BEST discourages interruption. It doesn't prevent it. SL has no concept of physical privacy outside of private sims. You're fooling yourself if you think someone who's eager enough to find you won't bother to check your land, friend or foe. As I've said, once people can fake their status as being "offline" who in their right mind is going to take it seriously? I think that indicator will become meaningless to all but the noobies.


Fair enough. Maybe there should be categories on the friends list. You clearly are using your friends list for both friends and casual acquaintances.


This is because IM is playing a dual role in SL as both telephone and private whisper. It's like being alone with your girlfriend and rather than whispering in her ear, you're both quietly talking on cell phones to each other.

When I first arrived in SL, I was totally surprised there was no way to whisper privately to someone standing right in front of me. I had to IM that person. Even more strange is that objects can publicly whisper aloud yet agents can not. o.O

I think Jopsy may be on to something here with "Visitor's Welcome!" The events list is completely useless because there's not a functionality like this. The events list should be reserved for events; giving an avatar who's on their land the ability to say, "I'm here on my land, and willing to host and accept visitors!" could accomplish a lot!

Great idea Jopsy

-Flip

Did you offered to pay $1000 Linden Dollars? or 1000 US Dollars (which would roughly be around $300,000 Linden dollars)? There is a HUGE difference between one and the other.

From my experience, most custom skins are around the $5000 - $10,000 Linden Dollar range more or less. $1000L for a custom skin wouldn't be worth the designers effort. Thats close to $4 USD for several hours of work if not more with edits and stuff. On the other hand if you were offering $1000 USD for a custom skin they probably thought you were full of shit to be honest.

Most off the shelf skins run in the range of $250 Lindens to $5000 Lindens maybe more if they are limited editions.

I wish you'd quit with the implications of dishonesty and deception in wanting to appear offline.

Whispering is not a good option. IM is private, no matter what, and just because it's private, doesn't mean I'm always whispering in her ear. In fact, a few minutes of that, I think she'd push me away and say get out of my ear

Ahh, I see. You had a bad experience with one creator, and now all creators are bad, especially those who want privacy controls. Because you know, if someone wants privacy controls, it MUST be because they are a creator, not just because they want privacy controls!

Please help me Godwin!

"Two legs with wings- OK!"

I am at a higher level of alert because of griefers. If it was not for the green dot on the map the bugger would of got me! I used my camera, put him on my target list, froze him first and then ejected the bugger from my property. He rushed back onto my property where I froze him and let the security script send him home!

I dont spend all of my time in my spaceship but it is safer than sitting in my lawnchair while chatting with my friends. Without the green dot I would have to abandond my ground level and go to DEFCON 1. The ground level would not be useful.

Ops! I have mentioned the green dot again! Sorry!!

I had offered One thousand Americans dollars to be paid to them from my pay pal account. It would not have been a easy job, I am demanding of quality when paying such a price. I was willing to put up One Hundred dollars American as a deposit to be paid for out of my pay pal account.

I am no longer willing to pay such a price. Dont know why they could not take my offer at face value. Once the deposit was paid they would of known it was a valid offer!

This is off topic. Could you start a new thread for it please?

This situation is quickly evolving from a minor annoyance in an online environment to a national security issue. Someone get Rumsfeld on the phone!

Sorry just was answering a question!

Well, I am understanding less than 1/2 of the content of the replies now. baka de gomen!

Since I have nothing to contribute there will be no more messages from me on this subject. I am "unsubscribing" to the thread and will read no more.

Good Luck and hope that you find what you are after!!

Get Rambo on the case! Or Macguyver! I've been in SL coming up on three years and I've been griefed for maybe a total of ten times. Perhaps those who claim to be constantly griefed need to examine their own behavior - unless I'm missing something or have a thicker skin. While random griefing definitely does occur, I don't think its quite met the epidemic levels some of the paranoiderati would have you believe. Sandboxes? Sure, they're always a crapshoot. Club wars? Sure, they happen, but normally are a two-way street. "Performance artists?" Sometimes. But not 24/7 by any means.

zOMG run away run away!

Regards,

-Flip

I have been griefed a couple of times, and even had an avatar banned. But most of my problems have been with intrusions, not griefing. In fact, there was this one time I was intruded upon, and I wasn't even in-world ...

I was sitting in a company meeting with about ten other people. My Pocket PC lay on the conference table in front of me. As I was speaking to the group, my Pocket PC began to flash, indicating I had a new email. I tapped on the email and quickly read "Persephone, just wanted you to know that <AVATAR> is walking around your house naked with a full erection." I began to laugh hysterically, and my coworkers tried to grab my Pocket PC so they could read whatever joke was making me laugh so hard. I quickly hid my handheld and collected myself, realizing that nobody in the room would understand an email like that!

After my meeting I went to my boss and said that I had to leave early. When she asked why, I just said "Well, a neighbor just contacted me and told me that there is a naked man in my house." She just looked at me with eyes as wide as saucers ...

You know, I have been in SL 3 years, and I can count the number of griefings I've endured on one hand. I dunno where Ranma hangs out that all this griefing occurs, so much so that its causing them to leave the game, because I just don't see it, and my SL business takes me all over the grid on a consistent basis. I have to wonder if there isn't something inviting this griefing.

Intrusions, on the other hand, I would number in the hundreds.

I would go as far as to say that intrusions are a form of griefing, even if the person(s) don't realize it.

I wish sometimes, that I was a more direct person in cases like that, but I am not, nor do I think the majority of SLers are. This is why I see a necessity for privacy tools. If a griefer can hide whether he is online or not as a result - big deal - when he comes to grief I can still report him, same as it ever was. I probably didn't have his stupid calling card anyway...

I agree with the posters who are saying that having your green dot not appear should only be allowed on one's own land - then it does not aid griefers.

I have kind of shifted to only supporting the removal of the green dot from the world map. I think that the green dot on the mini-map should remain, even on your own land. If I can hide on my own land, then I can buy a small parcel adjacent to yours and observe you unseen.

As of right now, the status "Online" means "This resident is currently in Second Life". I think we can all agree on that.

To be able to set yourself as "Offline", meaning "This resident is currently NOT in Second Life" , even though you still are is an inaccuracy made on purpose. A little white lie. You prefer the euphemism "privacy" but in the end it's false information being given out for a reason. You want people to *think* you're not around even though you really are. To me, that is the very definition of deception. Please, help me to see it another way.


I meant one-to-one whispering in the local chat window/channel. Scripted objects can do this with their owners by using the llOwnerSay() function. If agents could directly whisper to someone else nearby without using IM, then deactivating IM would be more like simply turning off your cell phone.

But since we have no other way to send private messages, even to people standing right in front of us, IM has to play a double role. I hope that makes sense.


Awwe... much fun can be had though!

So... I've been toying with this hypothetical idea of Friendly! and Do Not Disturb! modes.

Friendly Mode:
big map: Green 'Smiley' Dot or perhaps a green +
minimap: green triangle/diamond altitude indicator
new IM window:This person is welcoming people to come visit!
profile: Online!
Grey out/disable (Offer Teleport) button add (Request Teleport) button.

Normal Online Mode:
big map: Normal green dot
minimap: Normal altitude indicator, T, upside down T or dot.
new IM window: (no initial message)
profile: Online
Allow both (Offer Teleport) and (Request Teleport) buttons.

Do Not Disturb Mode:
big map: no marker
minimap: Red ^ v or x
new IM window: This person does not wish to be disturbed right now.
(allows IM's through anyway unless busy mode is on)
profile: Do Not Disturb
grey out/disable (Offer Teleport) and (Request Teleport) and
(locate on map) buttons for everyone.

Of course, it makes it difficult for two "Do Not Disturb" players to teleport to each other without one turning off their DND flag long enough for an invite. But I think that kind of 'nudge' would be good to remind people to turn off their DND flag from time to time.

Part of the point of all this is that it sets the expectation level for the person initiating contact. If they charge ahead and intrude on someone who has their DND flag on... they know they can expect either a rude response or no response in most cases.

It doesn't address how to politely leave a message for someone in DND mode for later though.

Thoughts/comments?

I'm afraid, I really don't know how to make you see it another way. I can't understand the logic or see the moral dilemna you perceive. I just don't get why you see it like that, so I can't really sway your opinion.

This belief of yours is what your proposals have been truly addressing however. They've been structured around not allowing people to appear as offline when they're in-world, and making sure it's acknowledged that they are there but not answering. Further, your suggestions have been more limitations to what people can do in this mode, rather than options.

You can choose to believe that it's deception, and by extension, I would be being deceptive by choosing to appear offline, but I think it's bollocks frankly. Maybe you'll just have to come to the realisation yourself, that this is kinda your own little issue and people's request for privacy and options shouldn't be hobbled by it.

Fade / Harris -

Quite often I see the online status indicator on people's profile page as merely "Unknown".

(for whatever reason). I dislike it... but it's probably sufficient for this issue.

Jopsy, I just think unplugged/do not disturb etc is just another busy mode. Busy mode is useless to many. The ability to appear offline is the most basic thing most are asking for, whatever other options they may be discussing with it.

Wow i like how this topic grew with new ideas during the time i have taken a break from the forums. We need a solution to the privacy problems. I will be looking foreward to the meeting.

The issue still remains... Once you login, that invites 50 of your friends to IM you "HEY SUP???" or "*Chews on your ear* HELLO CUTIE". That is a LOT of attention... I just want them to be my friend not all bombard me with a shower of welcomes. Expecially if those welcomes involve trying to get me onto a sex ball. Anyway...

Mapping is an issue. Most the time if a friend pops in right next to me i will remove them from my list, BUT a gathered few are friends i choose not to remove. My partner, and my real close friends. Sometimes i wish to be alone. And writing it in my profile never helps. I noticed only a small portion of residents actually bother to read profiles anyway... :/

Agreed, but I think a better indication of whether someone is welcoming company or wanting to be left alone would be a really helpful step.

I would *prefer* being treated as if I were completely offline, ... can't see anyone or be seen by anyone, all IM's to email... but still able to build/script over my own land... but being realistic, I'm doubtful that kind of 'unavailable' or 'non-interactive' mode will ever be considered part of LL's vision for secondlife.

I agree about needing a better indicator Jopsy and I'm still in favor of an "Available/Unavailable/Offline" scheme.

Several people in this thread, including the topic starter, keep asking for the same thing. They want to not be bombarded with requests from friends/strangers the moment they log in.

Fade suggests that Busy mode is useless to many but that's only because it doesn't do *enough* to prevent others from being able to interrupt you (send IMs, item transfers, teleport requests, etc.). An "Unavailable" mode could do this and still allow someone to chat locally and build without interruption.

Every week I see folks, like the Luskwood founders, who come online and just stand there motionless for an hour while they evidently try to "take care of business". At first, I thought they were just coming online and then leaving their computer idle... which kinda pissed me off a little because I would take the time to say hi and never got a response. I later found out that they simply could not hide from all the IMs and crap being sent to them the moment they arrived. Had they been able to mark themselves "Unavailable", I would have known right away and understood. I also couldn't have added to the problem by IMing them.

This thread was started by someone with the same situtaion. They can't protect themselves from their own celebrity. An "Unavailable" mode would both allow them to have a sort of haven from interruption while at the same time, let others politely know they're not interested or available for any new business.

Fade and some others are simply asking for the ability to set themselves "Offline" when they come into Second Life. It seems a simple solution to keep people from assuming they can reach you but it doesn't solve the situation I stated above. I don't check someone's status before trying to send them an IM. I just do it and they will get it reguardless of if they're busy or not. That's why "Busy" mode doesn't work and we need a more powerful "Unavailable" mode.

So I'm brand new (and it looks like I picked a meaty topic as the first one ever to reply to...) but I just wanted to say that a) I like the idea of privacy controls with granularity (IE I can be invisible except to people I choose to show up to). If IM really is changing over to Jabber, it seems like that functionality wouldn't be that hard to include in the IM protocol at least (since I have a Jabber client on my computer right now that will let me do just that).

I also, after reading all this (yes, I read every single post in the thread, I'm a dork), agree that it would be awesome to sever the IM and "whisper" functions from each other. Last night (my first night on SL) I was confused by the fact that I had an IM that was local and one that was at a distance. It would have been easier for me to follow the conversations if the IM had only been from a distance, and the "whisper" that was local had not.

Anyway, it's been a thought provoking conversation.