What's so bad about Furries & Goreans anyway?

Hey... don't discount Kyle, dangit. Have it happen on a day like today. "For yesterday, we were slaves in South Park..."

Happy Passover, everyone

Kyle would do the whole Moses "Let my people go" bit.

hehe I just said that cause that's what Mr. Slave says all the time "Jeeeesus christ"

Doooooooom. Resistance is futile.

I made these not for some sort of weird sexual perversion. I made them as they're goofy and cute and affordable unique avatars. ^^

I mean 'plushophiliacs', sorry.

I don't mind furries at all, and altho Goreans are NOT my cup of tea; I take a "live and live" stance towards them in SL. I mean - everyone participating is doing so of their own free will.... Personally, I would discourage anyone who asked me from dabbling in Gor - but thats an *opinion* based on the aftermath of several female friends who have gotten out of that scene.

I'm a firm believer in tolerance; it only benefits everyone.

Parting thought; one thing I have noticed upon occasion is that when someone asks me my opinion about Gor and they find it to be negative - they seem quick to label me "intolerant". My feeling on THAT is pretty simple.

I'm not out putting up "Impeach Gor" signs all over SL nor am I active trying to besmirch the reputations of my friends who may also be Gorean (and those are quite a few) - my opinins are private and I only put them forth when the subject comes up. Between times, I do my best to treat everyone no matter what side of the subject they fall out on.

Intolerance to me means ACTING ASSERTIVELY on a private opinion or belief. If someone is not doing that, but is still demonised for voicing a opinion, they have become the victim of the most insidous kind of intolerance that exists.

To me, tolerance = living in peace with people who may disagree with you. Thats what I love about SL and the philosophy that underpins it. That includes Goreans, Vampires, Furries or SL "Alternative Lifestyles" (like mine).

Ok...that went longer than I meant for it to

Increase the Peace

/thread de-rail

This has been bothering me since this thread started.

Is it me, or does Burke Prefect's avatar look like a young Dustin Hoffman?

Please continue.

/end thread de-rail

It's not a difference I would want to have to convince myself of when I was trying to get to sleep at night, though. The end result is the same, the goal no nobler, and the method, if anything, is more... I can't use the word I want to say here.

To my knowledge, some furries practice Gor-like beliefs but are not actually Goreans because for some odd reason only humans can fall into that category. What disturbs me the most is hearing reports that as a human you can wander around a Gor sim with an "observer" tag on and be ignored, but if you tried that with a furry avatar you'd get ejected on the spot. >.>;

Also puzzling is that I've heard in the past there was good relations between Gors and furries, and the two interacted quite amicably. And then one day it just fell apart for some reason and I don't know why. No one knows, or no one will tell me.

There was, when there was really only one gor sim and the decision and relations was based on one guy. But as more and more sims got added it got based more and more on group think, and you had a bigger chance of people who didn't like furries and didn't want them involved, or just wanted Gor to be nothing but the Master/slave relationship and nothing else.

No, I agree, taking advantage of someone is despicable, any way you slice it. I'm far from an expert on this whole subject (I've never been into D/S games, and Gor bores the hell out of me, save when debate like this springs up), but I'd guess that you can find people in pretty much any online venue, in pretty much any genre of online social interaction, who're looking for easy marks to manipulate. Gor is a nice, big, visible target, with strong sexual and dominance themes, which makes it the obvious thing to rail against. I haven't seen much yet to convince me that Gor is any more dangerous than, say, Fur or Vampire roleplay. Offensive, maybe... the misogyny issue alone is enough to raise eyebrows... but I'm going to need some convincing before I think it's something to go after with fire and axe.

I met an ex-Gorean fur yesterday near the Lost Furest, along with three of her lady servants (2 of them furry, one in human skin).

From what I can tell, she had no particular qualm with Goreans in general, but rather decided to split ways for philosophical reasons, taking what she valued of Gorean culture, and leaving the rest behind.

All 4 of them were very friendly, although their odd mannerisms were certainly foreign to me. It gave me perhaps a bit of insight into what it might be like inside a Gor sim, if I am correct in assuming some of their mannerisms were borrowed from Gor culture.

The three called each other sisters, and the alpha female was "Mistress", and given respect. She referred to them by name, giving gentle orders, with a hint of care and concern, as though she were a mother. There was no hint of any conflict between the roles.

I take aspects of this as consistent with a Gorean mindset, although certainly there may be key differences. Then again, I only know second hand what is involved.


As far as the dangers are concerned, if the slave aspect is emphasized by a unscrupulous Master, then Gor may provide an easier and more efficient means of predation than other sims where the concept would hold very little weight. Which is where one must use their minds and common sense when involving themselves in any group.

SL is a fictional environment and not real. If someone is trying to control you through any SL culture, and trying to force you where you do not wish to follow, then strongly consider breaking it off, at least long enough to determine what is happening, and whether any actual danger might exist. Seek the advise and help of others you trust if you must. You can be hurt in reality if a SL predator uses you for his/her own sordid pleasure.

btw i think there's probably a lot of "furry" avatars in SL who are PG and just enjoy being non-human

Me, for instance.

The problem is, the people most susceptible to that are often not able or not willing to see it as such. You'll hear things like, "But this is what I'm supposed to do," or "I'm not trying hard enough." It often has a lot to do with really crappy self-image, which the abuser reaffirms through his actions. That's only part of the time. The rest of the time, he'll say things like "I love you." The target of abuse holds out hope that the "loving"part of him will stick around, but the monster part inevitably comes back.

The other thing is, abusers don't tend to whack you over the head full-force with their tactics at the start. It's like the story about putting a frog in a pot of water and turning on the burner underneath it. By the time they realize there's a problem, everything's coming to a boil.

"What disturbs me the most is hearing reports that as a human you can wander around a Gor sim with an "observer" tag on and be ignored, but if you tried that with a furry avatar you'd get ejected on the spot."

You'd get ejected if you were wearing a robot avatar, or a dragon avatar, or a pokemon avatar, or a Stormtrooper avatar. If it doesn't look right in the theme, you'd get ejected. Simple. Think "historical recreationists".

Musuko.

Ohhhhh. I LIKE that!

Lorelei,

Have you ever met a Gorean?

This is one of those things that fits in the same manner about Conservatives from Mark Twain.


Not all Gorean Masters are abusive internet predators on SL, but most abusive internet predators on SL are Goreans Masters.

That's a limitation of the software. IE you have no choice. You can't write off all furries as just 'people in costumes' just because LL have chosen to implement only human avatars.

My personal opinion is that this is what is the crux of the issue here; because you have to 'wear' a furry avatar, most other people don't see a problem in making them take it off.

You can see that people simply fail to understand it when they talk about it as a dress codes - this is not about clothes... that would be a furry avatar in a tuxedo as opposed to one in jeans and tshirt.

Its a skin to most furries. So how would you like it if a sim enforced that you must wear a Linden default white persons skin before you were allowed in? Or maybe you had to revert to Ruth or Ken (in point of fact I have no idea if the default male avie has a name!?) avatars in default clothing before entering? Because that is a more valid comparison.

Just because you see a furry as a guy or gal in a suit does not mean that they do. They're just working with what they're given.

But on the other hand, sure - I think you can discriminate against anyone you choose to on your land without a reason, really (although you're fighting a losing battle what with alts and stuff - I mean if your sim is public and I want to see it whether you want me to or not, I will!)...just for gods sake, if you're going to discriminate against people, don't give a reason! That's just asking for trouble - and dramah!

I think the "take it off" nonsense is more just scapegoating.

Gor and Furry are pretty opposite philosophies. One believes in a Natural Order that assigns roles based on gender and separates "sheep" from "shepherds", to the end of the "sheep" losing a portion of their own identity. The other culture bases a lot on just how you act, is more animalistic in both appearance and action, the majority of it abhors slavery and mysogyny, and is based on the concept of acting out how you feel.

If they aren't mutually exclusive, they're damned close.

It isn't that Goreans don't like Furries, robots, or even little blue men with antenna on their heads. Gorean Sims have laws. And in those laws, if you read them when entering into any Gorean Sim, they state that when entering the Sim to please change or leave. The reason your asked to do so is becasue Goreans take the roleplay seriously and no where in the Books of Gor are there any mention of Furries, robots or little blue men. If you don't comply then yes your booted. But you run the risk of being booted from any Sim if you don't comply with their rules are you not?

Now the Observer tag is there to use mainly for your protection. If you have no intention to roleplay by their laws but to merely watch the goings on then you wear the tag for your protection from Force Collar, Kill or even Capture. Are you ingnored.....yes. But that is only becasue you choose not to roleplay. Goreans are in constent roleplay and if your not into roleplaying Gor whats the use in breaking RP. But that rule doesn't apply to IM's only to Open Chat.

I wouldn't care if you were 'born' a lion anthro on SL. If a Gorean sim required players and visitors to have human avs, its not anything but a dress code. You wear a pair of shorts and no shirt into a 5 star black tie restaurant, they kick you out. Same thing here.

If they ignored you, it wouldn't matter what avatar you wore. They don't want to ignore you, they just want you to be unobtrusive background for their world.