What's so bad about Furries & Goreans anyway?

I am a furry, i love your post.

In actual fact Chere, it's the other side of the SUN, Not the Moon. Both Earth women AND men are occasionally raided, and brought to Gor for slave purposes (Earth women are particularly favored because their strength of spirit, and deep emotional fire make them exemplary slaves. They truely "Serve with Fire" Goreans Respect Strength). As for the dating, I refer to the concept that Gor has been held in a form of cultural stasis by the Priest Kings. an "Alien" insectoid race, who cultivate that Human culture for unknown purposes. technological advancement on Gor halted in a developmental stage akin either to Imperial Rome, Classical Greece, or Celtic Europe based upon Various descriptions in the books and is allowed to advance ONLY in those areas that benefit Gorean Mankind without threatening the supremecy of their alien controllers. The cultural attitudes regarding slavery are right out of Imperial Rome and these other cultures as the frst Humans brought to Gor were probably FROM those very races.
Now as to your Comment,
"brainwashed into accepting their fate by psychological, physical, and sexual torture.".
Undeniably Yes. ~IN THE NOVELS~ Gor in Practice on the Web However has Willing (And i might add on the part of some slaves, EAGER) participation by ALL involved. That these women, and men who serve suspend their 21st century values, and explore another way of thinking is NOT in the Literal sense Slavery. Some of the men involved in being Gorean Masters are making up for a world they feel has become Too sexually ambiguous. They seek to compensate for the confused roles they feel have been forced upon them in the face of the modern world, by seeking an older value that re-empowers them (Gorean men take note this is NOT intended as an Indictment of your personal RLs). For the greater part, Masters and Mistress's like Myself are natural Alpha's in RL and we are only expressing that personal power, and magnetism in a more exagerated form in this open fantasy world. The women, and men who choose servitude might surprise you. The common Picture is one of the abused, or confused misanthrope Seeking either to continue a pattern of abuse, Or seeking approval from just ONE person in a world they feel has rejected them. NOT the case at all. The slave, male or female comes from every sphere of life. Many are personally powerful people. In professions, or Trades, Well educated, and very well rounded. The One factor they all seem to share is an overwhelming generosity of spirit. I have Great respect for the Girls who serve me. They are aware of it, and Bask in it. Gor or Not, We've chosen a relationship of Inequality. It suits us. As i have Often been quoted as saying, We are two sides of the Same coin, Each Feeding a Need in the Other.
My slaves are not broken people nor do i seek to break them. I seek to harness their natural fire, and direct it to it's most positive ends. Speak to any of my Girls, they are free to express themselves POLITELY and will tell you themselves how serving me has been a positive thing in their lives. Try to push, or bully one, and you will find out just how "Not Broken" they are. They are fiercely loyal to me up to a point where i have to restrain them from retaliating against others for perceived hurts done to me. You don't get that kind of respect, or devotion from bullied and beaten people.

It always struck me as odd, in the Western world, we find any suggestion of inequality Repugnant, and yet we still recognize, and respect hierarchy(Usually headed by people who, in our general opinion are wholly inadequate to the task of leadership). If the D/s heirarchy seems arbitrary to you, All well and good. Now defend to ME the searving of a Boss IRL you believe to be an Incompetant Fool.

Angel.

You want him opened vertically or horizontally?

Not defending it, but I read a few points regarding rape.

I personally very much enjoy the idea of being over powered by my lover.. sometimes quite aggressively. At first I thought I was weird for this but more and more of my friends are admitting they like it as well. So don't be too quick to judge these people as sickos or perverts, its actually very common. The helpless little girl thing is a very.. umm exciting fantasy.

Personally I can't get into the Gorien shit.. Apparently being outgoing and funny is uncalled for.. I can't stand role playing scenarios were you can never let your real personaility factor in.

As for the Furries.. I just started to read a thread about animal totems and some shit.. It made my brain bleed. I had an ex who once swore to god he was part of a crazy witch cult. Claiming he could 'send' himself to meetings with the others and even take animal forms. It freaked me out and everytime I hear a 'radical' furry, I think they're just as mentally unstable as he was. Normal furries are cute though.. Mostly youngsters who fell in love with that Toyko mew mew or some Jap anime.

Because, of course, anime is the only source of interest "funny animals". The works of Disney, Warner Brothers, and the like were just figments of our collective imagination...

But, hey, feel free to put your ignorance on parade. I hear it beats having to actually think about things.

Angelique mon cher, nice to see you write on occasion. Well said. ~slinks back to my quiet corner with a bemused smile

If I may make a couple of comments on Gor. First, let me say that I have very little experience with Gor in SL, most of my experience is interaction with RL Gorians. Secondly, I love to PLAY a Gorian slave, it's is an absolutely great escape from real life and is very sensual and sexual.

Given that, I have a couple of problems with the RL Gorian cultures I've been exposed to. The first is that generally, I don't seem to like the people who are Gorian. It's probably just a conflict between my personality and the personality that Gor seems to attract, but none the less, I don't have a high opinion of most. There is a thread of conceit and self centered worldview that rubs me the wrong way.

But here is my real concern, and why I'm writing this post. BDSM play and Gorian play are very powerful emotionally and physically. That's one reason people do it, to push themselves to new highs that only powerful emotional play like BDSM can accomplish (that's also why Tantra has a strong following IMHO). Being powerful, it can cause harm as well as joy, through mistakes and also abuse. Now in BDSM, the community has recognized this and build some strong safety nets and protections into the culture. The simplest of these is the safe word, a powerful protective tool. But there are others as well.

What bothers and scares me with the RL Gorian culture is that many in it have rejected the safety nets. The attitude is that the safety nets are antagonistic to the philosophical ideals. This creates IMHO a very dangerous culture where individuals can be hurt and damaged both through mistakes and conscious abuse.

I think Gorians must address this issue. There must be cultural safety nets for this type of strong play.

I happen to have friends here in-world that are Jedi or Gorean or furries...I have no problems with any of them or their friends. I do admit I have bumped into many very weird people and very rude...but this is only a fantasy world that alots money making, meeting, or what ever. So i say that if you happen to come across any one that is rude or weird...remember, you do not have to stick around and remain in their presence for any amount of time to say anything in remark of their difference.

This is only a fantastic world and there need no negativity here...leave it in your RL world!

Thank you ; )

ahem "Amen"

as a former white silk real life Gorean slave i say if there are no safty nets in play then you are dealing with a bunch of nuts. no self respecting Gorean Master/ Mistress nowadays will use such tactics as it is also a safty issue just as it is in BDSM and many real life as well as in rp have implemented them. if you do run into one who refuses to have a safe word in rl Gor run, because they do not have your best interest in mind. true Gor is yes very powerful emotionaly and physically, however before play even begins both parties sit down and discuss what role they play and what is expected of them. at least those with common sense do.and that what it boils down to common sense.

as for the attittudes, there are jerks in BDSM as well as Gor, it comes with the territory, however it boils down to communicating first and knowing your limits second and if you run into a Gorean MAster/Mistress who refuses to do either stay away.

My two pennies worth here....

Let me stat something first. I'm a furry. I'm a human. I'm an Angel. At times I'm even a mint green donkey with wings, but thats only on special occasions

During my time in SL I've met a lot of different AVs and while some may look weird or have interests that I find slightly off scale I've learnt that my opinion of people should not be based on looks or interests rather by the actions they take when dealing with me and my friends.

I've met nice human characters but I've also met bad ones
I've met nice Furry characters but I've also met annoying ones
I haven't met many mint green donkeys

Yes I do find the master/slave lifestyle a little weird but so long as they don't do anything that causes my grief then who am I to judge them.

Generally, just accept people for what they are and how they act.


Lee

Hmmmmm....* Watches his avatar girl beat the hell out of those that try to capture her.*

You know, I don't really see a lot of hatred toward furs. Not that I don't think it exists.

I am a fur, and probably spend about as much time surrounded by people wearing human avs as I do people wearing furry ones, and it's pretty much been a non-issue. Though I think I just keep good company. I've been harrassed over it specifically just once, and it was by some newbie in the welcome area. He wasn't very bright, so I didn't take it very seriously. It was sort of like, what, you're insulting me for being a fur even though you don't know me, when you can't even spell and punctuate? He threatened to kill some other guy's family because he said that he thought we(furries) were cute. I may be a furry, but at least I'm not you.

Anyway, it's not hard to tell why Goreans and Furs get a lot of flack. We're both visible minorities with a tendency toward abberrent behavior. Goreans have their women/slavery thing(ugh, okay, I don't like what they do but whatever, it's their life), and furs... well. Our 'thing' is a bit more broad. Furs are just ridiculously open minded. You see a lot of weird behavior among furs because it's okay among furs to act in ways that most of society finds socially inacceptable. Open mindedness is sort of the point. Furs are accepting, more so than most anyone, and because of that they attract a lot of people who want a community within which they can comfortably play out whatever quirks they find entertaining. Quirks which the rest of society deems abberrent.

So yes, there are a disproportionate number of furs with weird quirks and habits and beliefs... but there are as many kinds of furs as there are furs. I, for one, am a bit more on the 'conservative' side of the fur community. For lack of a better word. I'm still not totally comfortable with random cuddling and acting sickly sweet, but I think it's wonderful that some people can. I don't know how any reasonable person can hate a group of people who, while maybe often displaying habits and quirks you don't understand or agree with, are still pretty much some of the nicest, most accepting individuals you're likely to meet. And that's even despite an apparent hate-fest toward them.

Furs and Goreans are visible and abberent minorities, which makes them pretty easy targets. It's funny, you see one fur with a prim wang barking, and suddenly you hate all furs for their sick behavior, even though it wouldn't be hard to make the argument that a disproportionate number of abuse reports are filed against non-furs and probably non-goreans as well. By percentage. Per capita, if you will.

It's kind of like the whole thing in Canada with the goth girl who killed her parents with the help of her older goth boyfriend. Suddenly the whole goth community was under fire even though it was, what, the first case of its kind ever? In the same period of time that goths have been around, how many average Joes went nuts and went on killing sprees? How many serial killers have actually turned out to be part of -any- kind of subculture?

Anyway, the same thing applies in Second Life. Chances are you're going to spend your Second Life meeting all kinds of weird people with weird beliefs. You're going to meet all kinds of jerks. And you know what?

Most of them aren't going to be furs or goreans.

Furs and Goreans are just more memorable and distinguishable from other people. As soon as you can lump someone in a stereotyped group they become a lot easier to hate just for the sake of it. You see ten furs doing something you find you find morally inappropriate in a Mature area and you hate all furs, but you see a hundred people with human avs doing questionable things in PG sims and breaking the rules, and you just hate them individually. An intelligent person would realize this was an illogical way of reacting.

If you're going to hate people, try and do it individually. Otherwise you just end up being one of the people who probably deserve to be hated(ie, a jerk).

On the subject of goreans... I don't know a huge amount about them, but being female I find their views kind of offensive. I'm not entirely sure how serious their views are, honestly. I've had female friends get abuse reported by Goreans for not acting submissively to men. And back when you still could, they would negative-rate their behaviour as well. Now, I could just hate all Goreans based on those interactions, but I figure, every group has to have its jerks. In the end, no I don't agree with their beliefs, but so long as they don't try to push them on me, I don't care what they do with their free time.

I, uh, suspect a lot of the female goreans are actually played by males on SL. Just because I find it unlikely, but eh, not exactly something I'm prepared to back up. In general I find the whole SL-Gorean thing pretty harmless. There might be some cause for concern over gorean practices in real life, because I just don't like the idea of women actually being slaves outside of a purely fantasy context, but certainly not in an online environment. This is essentially one big fantasy, if people want to fantasize in their online identity as a slave, more power to them. Submission gets a lot of people off. Guys too, notably. It's not just women.

Why? While it's true that Mistress has enough slaves, some of the other Panther Girls may want one.