What's so bad about Furries & Goreans anyway?

Better here than IRC.

Maybe so..but I can only do what I can by reporting those underage I find.

Agreed.

I have met underage players on teh adult grid before. But there's not much you can do when an adult signed them up for it, because there's no proof it's not the adult playing. So I just try to look out for them and keep them out of trouble.

I suppose that's why I am unfamiliar with other games that include rape as part of their appeal. Not my scene.



Real life rape is very upsetting. I know a few women who have suffered through it. Maybe that's why the concept of "playing rape" is revolting to me, it seems to be a mockery of the trama RL women go through. That, and the idea that someone likes to fantasize about raping people. I'm no prude... but I do find this more than a little disturbing.

I certainly don't subscribe to the line of thinking John Norman presents in his books, but I am not everybody, and I understand people view things differently than I.

I am not trying to offend anyone here... truly... and the goreans reading this thread must know that there are people who don't agree with what they are doing. I don't give people crap about it, I generally keep these thoughts to myself. I just wanted to present why I am sometimes bothered by the gor play to present insight into why some people might react negatively.

Well I had a furry problem a few nights ago. I had dropped a billboard randomly at a SIM, was fixing it. Well I took it, dropped it again to see if it worked and I locked up. I didnt think nothing of it. Until I got some NASTY messages from a guy. Personal RL threats involving throats and the slicing of them. I couldnt help but laugh at the sheer anger of this guy... Until he started orbitting me and random people in my club. I dont know nothing about combat.. So to get back at him.. I went back and truely littered the billboards on his SIM.

Next thing I know I got him and 3 other furries spamming at my club- THEY HATE FURRIES, DONT STAY HERE THEY FURRY HATERS. I really thought it was a joke. I mean these people do realize its just a cat suit their wearing.. I hope.. Anyway i explain it to the others after banning the original guy who kept orbitting people (Thank you goes out to my elite ninja I met at Clubside's sandbox for keeping him away) and I explained, with logs, what the guy had said/done. 2 apologized and one just kept on going on and on. Something about how much the guy is doing for the Forest Survivors or something. Obviously he is overworked and stressed, to lash out so violently.

Anyway short story long, one of our dance pod campers IMd me and asked if Id perfer her to wear a human skin while dancing. I said yes very nicely, since my club is a Night Life roleplay sim. But I told her its not mandatory. Next thing I know one of my managers is pissy, the furry next door bans me, and I got huge furry troubles going on.

Now im almost angry back.. I dont care what your AV is.. its all about roleplay. I enjoy to get to know the people, not the AV. Even if I did say 'No furries', thats not racist (Yes someone tried telling me im a racist and bigot over the ordeal). ITS A GAME. They aint welcome at Gorien sims.. You adapt in this game. Furry is a choice, so is being some where and harrassing those who don't engage in that choice. Again i don't care what you look like, but if you dare tell me I should walk on eggshells because you have a 'suit' on your av... Thats ridiculas.

So the way I decided to smooth things over is invite my furry friends to open furry-friendly shops up at my mall. Now I see alot more different types of people coming and it makes me happy. Furries, gorillas, short fat black guys (lol he had me rolling), and misc other crazy AVs that enjoy engaging in conversation and friendship. Thats what its all about people... Not trying to be a radical "Im this! Nah Nah" throw it in your face thing... Just be outgoing and have fun. Stop creating additional stress on people by being Jehova Witness like AVs.. Join us or the Lindens will burn your soul!

To sum this up (with demography)

Age-players -- sick pedos (some 40,50+ year old white male, refugees from myspace or other pedo hangouts).

Furries -- cheap bastards who can't believe they don't have a tail rl. (100% men living in dorms or basements).

Goreans -- some scifi cult who think it's ok to dress up and pretend to be someone's Master or slave, just to counter their weak mental states RL (95 % men between the age of 20-30 living in basement, 5% women between the age of 30-50 married but ugly.)

Now someone make the supreme arch-type ... The age playing Gorean furry.

With all due respect Wrom, I seriously hope you are joking. Sweeping generalizations, in both RL and SL, are never a good idea.

With all due respect Mr. Dwight, I do hope you do not make sweeping generalizations about women based on their hair color. This might not get you in trouble in SL (since the majority of women in SL are not blonde) but it's quite possible to get you in trouble RL.

I wouldn't say dumb Chere,, i've seen forums where Goreans talk logical Circles around people who oppose their Point of View. As in other communities, there are those of Higher education, as well as those simply well read and Worldly, But also as in Other communities, you get your primates, and throwbacks.
Are Goreans Arrogant?
Yes,, it more or less goes with the territory.
Is their View out of touch with 21st Century More's?
Most definately, But after all, they ARE Playing in another time, and In another world.
One wouldn't expect a group recreating Classical greece, or Ancient Egypt, to Hold to Modern values.

Dumb?
No.
Misunderstood by those who Only see the Surface?
Definately.
The same holds true for Furries.

Goreans and Furries are NOT Bad by Definition. Those taking part in Each lifestyle do so willingly and with Full Understanding. They are Consenting Adults, making a choice. You may not Like it,, and that is your right, But what is NOT your right is to Demand it's censure, or banning Based upon your own personal Prejudices. Remember,, whatever YOU are doing is most Likely Offensive to someone ELSE.
I've recently Seperated Myself from association with the Goreans, and am Currently No great fan of the way the Community at large Chooses to Conduct it's self, But that is My Issue. I STILL fully support their right to Engage in their form of Play.

Angel.

Neither is it mine. And if you think Gor has rape as part of its appeal, I think you have misunderstood it.
Rape (can be) part of a scenario (such as when a panther gets captured), but it isn't a central part of the roleplay nor lifestyle, and it's entirely up to you and your co-player if you want to RP it or not.
I have never used it as part of my paly in the Gor sims, neither as Master or slave, and judging by the IM's between me and the kajira I had when I was a Master, she got more out of getting punished (caned in this case) than I did.

As for XXX-games. I've tried a few. They're usually so bad it's a wonder they're allowed to be called games. Bad story, no real characterisation. Meh. Chuck 'em in the trashcan.



Nah, It's ok. We know not everyone has the same opinion. Besidese, I just roleplay Gor, I don't agree with Norman's views either.
When I first learned of Gor I was rather put off in fact, since I abhor slavery IRL.
Learning a bit more about Gor though, I realised that it's all consensual (though problems crop up sometimes, but I adressed that in my first looong post), and that Gor often was on a roleplay basis.
Since I have played several RP's where slavery exists, and one where slavery and sex was included together (Pax Romana Mortem, late roman era, made by a couple of friends. Historical RP) I read a bit more still, and then decided to try it out.
Some parts didn't fit me very well, others I liked. I observed in a few sims until I found one where I was comfortable.

The lifestylers I know focus more on the concepts of honor and strength (physical and mental) described in the books, and the slavery takes second seat. It usually isn't the focus of their lifestyle, just a part of it.

Ok, lessee... 40, 50 white male... 100% men in basements... more men, and women between 30-50...

It's an ugly hermaphrodite between 35 and 40 living in a basement!

...holy shit, that's ME!



Seriously though, this post really made me laugh. Good one Wrom!

You really appear to feel that other people are inferior to you.

Not the healthiest of mental attitudes, IMO.

The waltz used to be considered barbaric in England. It used to be Chinese married at age 12, Europeans used to marry at 15. The Chow is a breed of dog that used to be fairly common as food. Sashimi is raw fish. Jewish and Muslims don't eat pork. Hindi will be totally offended at the use of leather or of eating beef.

Often you will find something that is normal for one culture, but totally disgusting to another. Who's right?

Cultural differences. You can probably extend that list to a thousand or more entries over history, and even in the present. These are/were real, and accepted in their respective points in place and time.

It is in this day and age that we need to know what tolerance, more specifically for other cultures means.

The Gorean and Furry participants are consenting and they break no real world laws. It may offend one's sensibilities, but you can say the same for the "bling" and gangsta looks, the BSDM scene, playing another race (remember the fake Japanese thread?), or something totally inhuman.

Tolerance.

Oh, well put.

the only default of the furries in SL, well to me is thay have tendencies to affect my framerate , but that's about it

the gorean well... a lot are behaving like opressed minorities in big cities and thus are a bit agressive, a lot of gor sims impose you to do this, that or wear this/that

they simply should exepct that non gorean places do the same and they should obey to it as they expect non goreans to obey to theyr rules

exepted these, i have no problems

Gorean are arrogant, but it's not forbidden to be arrogant,
and they don't force to remain in their world.

i had some problems with Gorean people, but i was free to leave.

and now, no more problems.

yeah but some are arrogant also out of theyr sims, ifi decide on my and you have to wear green shirts on sunday well i expect you to wear green shirts on sunday, unless you leave

so if i ask no gorean slave talk on my land i am in right to expect so

Actually... they are playing in modern times on a world on the other side of Earth's moon, hidden from us. Earth women are captured here, brought there, and are brainwashed into accepting their fate by psychological, physical, and sexual torture.

Good summary of yourself

I pretty much avoid Gorian sims myself, I have tried both ends of the D/s style thing at some point in my life and have found out the following:
1. I am th e most arrogant free willed slave you will ever meet, to the point where I run roughshod all over anyone who thinks (note use of word thinks) they are in charge of me.
2. I make a horrible dom, because I prefer to switch roles in the relationship fairly often, on some things i prefer to lead on others I want her to, and sex.... well thats a give and take.

Honestly I get a bit creeped out in Gorean sims, which is why when my ex wanted to go there to clothes shop I basically turned into a shadow and said not a damn word as I followed her in. I just rebel naturally against that type of system.

As for furries.... they add flavor, I like em =)

All jokes aside...

Not just earth women, the acquisition was said to be done over time, different centuries etc. Both men and women are captured then enslaved and assimilated into the Gorean culture.

Due to advances in medicine humans in Gor tend to live much longer than Earthlings. But overtime, they get killed (due to brutality in Gor) and their children know nothing of Earth.

The acquisitions are done by big ant like aliens (huge Gorean secret) called the priest kings. I'm sure they would frown on human beings (Gorean) talking down to Furries. Since priest kings were known to have captured and controlled multiple types of aliens along with humans, all of whom have ability to generate rational thought. Infact there is a spider race that talks in one Gorean book I read long ago.

Now, I don't personally have anything against anyone acting out their fantasies as Goreans or Furries. These two groups tend to leave other people alone usually. And are polite (at least Goreans) when dealing with outsiders.

The only form of RP that I strongly dislike for moral and other reasons is this age-play crap. That GOT TO STOP. But since it's Linden endosed, there is nothing we can do about it.

I know that gor is not entirely about raping people, but it plays so heavily in the whole concept that I find it hard to ignore.



Consensual only because SL isn't designed to allow people to enslave other people. They sort of have to give consent.



I've read a bunch of the books, talked with a few gorean RP'ers over the last few years, and I don't think I will ever really understand fully why people are drawn to actually living the lifestyle. But hey... I don't understand why bush got re-elected, or why some people hate squirrels.

John Norman was certainly full of sh*t with his idea that gor represented what people really want deep down, under all the layers of "common sense". Throughout the history of civilization, especially when you get back before christianity took hold, women were honored. Look at the ancient Celts, for example. Women fought along side men in battles, and were honored as the bringers of life. They were sacred.

If it were part of the basic human makeup for men to want women to be inferior, it would not have taken so long for it to happen. And... interestingly enough... when civilization (if you can call it that) did actually start viewing women as inferior to men (which is crap), women were definitely NOT encouraged to be sexual beings.

Heh, yeah. I have to agree. In reality, people brought into such a system from the outside would suicide at an appaling rate and for most people, sex with the unwilling isn't really all that much fun and a partner who is unresponcive gets old quick.

ancient Celts lived very long time before ?
in Great Britain ?
are you sure whomen where sacred ?
there was different rules, sure...
like in different culture.

We must have seen different areas/people of Gor then. (on SL mind you, not in the books).
The gorean sim I'm in now has more rape than any other I've encountered, thanks to the frequent captures, re-catures and counter-captures between panthers and outlaws.
It still isn't a large part of the roleplay there, and certainly not the focus of the roleplay.
An example of just that is give here:

Entire post can be read here:
/108/58/99603/9.html



And thank god for that. If forced slavery was possible... That I would fight.




I don't think he was serious. As I wrote in my first post:

Entire post here: /108/58/99603/13.html




Well, women have been subject to most things over the course of history, from respected and adored, even worshiped in some individual cases to mocked, persecuted and downtrodden.
Your points in the second paragraph further underscores why I think Norman wrote the books as a riposte to the extreme feminist movement, not as a veiw he held and thought people should adhere to.

Women's status in society has some fairly significant chracteristics. In the hunter gatherer "packs" women were fairly equal to men (or so many signs indicate). When humanity learned agriculture, the status of women took its first significant nosedive.
Farming is hard backbreaking labour, and without technology to compensate for their lack of upper body strength compared to men, it was simply not economical to have women work the fields. This also brought a change in their status.
It doesn't mean women were respected less nessecarily (though that happened too in some cultures), but like I said, it did change their status.

Religion and culture (often going hand in hand considering how often priests and priestesses also have secular and political power) matters too, as examplified by the patriarchal Greek family structure/culture during the classic era or the Sauromatian culture (where females were of equal or higher status than the men) prevalent around the northeastern shores of teh black sea and the steppes around the same time.

Women's status began to climb when technology that compensated for lack of upper body strength were introduced, i.e. particularily from the industrial revolution and forward.

Another important factor to note though, is that women might have had more power then many history books let on, but because their power often was 'silent'/behind the scenes (or outright censored) it often doesn't show up in the history books.

And of course they weren't encouraged to be sexual. STD's were if anything more common then, since about the only way to not get them was abstinence.

Hm, I think I got sidetracked there. Oh well.

Trust me, I do not. I just happen to prefer redheads.

In all seriousness though, I meant nothing personal by my earlier post.