Stupid security scripts

So.... here's me thinking I'll have a little fun today.

I have a Star Trek shuttle craft which you can fly around in. I thought it would be fun to just drop in on green dots on the map, and ask if they knew which direction the Alpha Quadrant was in. Quite a few of those people I encountered found it all highly amusing, and some gave me very detailed - if completely strange - directions.

However, whilst flying around, so far I have encountered at least two security scripts, one that gave NO warning whatsoever and just ejected you, the second gave a very short warning which, by time you'd read the message, was too late to do anything about it or clear the area. Both have been AR'd as I believe both infringe my right to roam freely around the world as I wish. If a good warning was given, or the "No Entry" lines then sure, I would have passed through (most places I just flew through anyway) but those two really irritated me. I got thrown out of my shuttle craft, and on the first had to rez another craft, fly near the other one and 'take' the original, the second I managed to nudge out of the way in 4 or 5 attempts of brief flying for a second or so before the script kicked in.

What is it with people and these security scripts? You want privacy.... sure I can accept that you want that (even though I don't accept there is any need for it) - but why oh why are you setting the eject times so short? My gameplay is being disrupted by you, when all I am doing is innocently passing through.

So... if you got an AR today for a security script, blame yourself, not me.

Lewis

Technically, if the script is on their land, then an AR won't be effective. Only if the script extends beyond is it considered abuse.

I will note that I currently use no security script (just mostly universal ban, but I also have a nice stone wall covering part of that) on my land as I enjoy flying as well (Terra Cubey Tigershark myself) but if I get more stuff dumped on it..that will change.

But if no warning - or inadequate warning - is given for anyone under normal circumstances to clear the area..... it's considered AR'able, according to Live Help.

Lewis

I don't see why it should be..perhaps some larger plots can give a delay, but the smaller ones are so small that the security has to be set to near instant.. or you can walk straight across them.

Which would void the security reason in the first place.

Personally, I'd set mine to 5 seconds.. first offense, repulse off my land. Second with same name, forcibly teleport them home.

No, ejecto-scripts are explicitly against the rules:But as far as I can tell enforcement has been non-existent.

And it is a major pain in the ass to anyone overflying in vehicle or not and provides no actual security as the owners of these ejecto-lators think it does.

Great concept, a script that provides no benefit, is a major irritant, is against the stated rules and yet dots the landscape. Maybe I can make a killing selling bicycles to fish.

Then I would just have it teleport them home. I wouldn't violate the TOS, at the same time..people have a right to keep others off their property if they choose to do so.


Personally I don't see why ejecting someone off your land is against the TOS..as long as its your land and not 'protected' (chosen or not) land of neighbours. It -is- your land and if you push someone off of it, its far better than completely teleporting them home..maybe they want to stay in the area.

5 seconds doesn't even come close to adjusting for lag.. I helped someone test their security orb and it was set for 10 seconds... no sooner had they tped me to their land, I got the notice and then was ejected (the orb saw me as there before the tp screen had even finished) I was "there" for, at most, 2 seconds.

And when you are flying in a ship just to be flying and those damn things eject you from your craft with NO WARNING whatsoever, I think that's abuse.

Actually, I'm working on a 'returnhome' security script that be hard wired to allow a minimum of 15 seconds so far, or perhaps 20 if I see that 15 just is not enough. I figure the rules of a security system should be as follows:

1. It should not attack people so fast that they cannot be warned at least 3 times...

I created it so that it warns a minimum of 3 times in 15 seconds. And alerts to the time before shutdown.

15 seconds seemed fast enought to discourage gawkers, while still not ejecting them before they can turn around an leave. It uses IMs to prevent spamming the area.

2. It should deal with repeat offenders firmly but fairly.

Simply, the security system keeps track of people who are not allowed to be nearby, and if the leave and come back, it sends them back faster. If you leave for a second and come back, the time away is going to be noticed less than the time you were present. A repeat griefer added to the system who keeps returning will notice that he might get to a point where he is sent home pretty quick when returning, offering less time to do damage.

3. It should not crash the target.

It waits a time before attempting to send the same person home again. Sadly, if the user is TP locked due to glitch, then the system will just TP screen him repeatidly until he can fly out of the area, but I can find no way around this, really.

4. It should be triggerable by local admins to get rid of immediate problems.

A griefer walks in, you have to be able to zap him immediatly, not have to fiddle with the thing for 5 minutes to set his name while he ruins the party. It is possible to manually send a message to the device to force it to send someone home immediatly. This is NOT an automatic function, but can be triggered by anyone in the security systems admin list.

I'm still tinkering, but the line between dealing with griefers and allowing people to enjoy themselves is a thin one. Any thoughts?

It isn't your land; real life intuitions about property rights simply don't apply.

It is all Linden Lab's land, and we are all of us renters.

All interesting points..and I can see the 15 second reasoning with lag.

Foolish, I would be interested in a script setup as you mention it. If you needed independent land or a 'trespasser' to test it on, contact me in world and I may be able to be of assitance.

This complaint has been around since the advent of the security script. I think it's bloody obvious that we need a hard-and-fast rule that on the mainlands, avatars have the right to pass.

Seeing as you can not deface, destroy or steal in SL against the owner's wishes, there is simply no point to these scripts when a property isn't actually in use. And if you are using your property and want privacy, a little warning is just the right thing to do - greifers and voyeurs are the minority after all, no point in assuming the worst - it gives us all the impetus we need to steer clear of you and let you have your privacy.

I think Foolish's outline strikes the perfect balance. It allows for people to get where they're headed, and deals with the real [left]greifer and voyeur with a little margin for mistakes. Truly aware of the idea of community there - I like it a lot.
[/left]

Geeez why do you call yourself "Foolish?" This is an amazingly well-thought out plan of action. I wish more people would not automatically assume the worst of people...

Thats the thing. I would turn my securtity script off before going 'off world.' I see no point for it if I'm not there..or my family isn't.

Besides.. leave a big puddle of (censored) with the words 'thanks for the use of your bed' on my land, and it -does- show who did it. Not that I will remove the ban lines, so its obviously someone I know that I would deal with personally first.

Feel free to fly over my land, above 40 meters, currently. Im near a beach in the family's compound in Lebeau. Constructive criticism of my landscaping, design, and construction are always appreciated.

Ejection scripts are allowed and are actually a part of the tools available to all landowners in SL (next time someone is on your land right click them, go to the more tab and you'll see its built into the viewer, both eject and freeze).

What is disallowed Introvert, is _push_ scripts. Different monkey entirely.

TP home and ejection are perfectly legal in LL's eyes as long as they're limited to the boundaries of one's property (or rented server space from Linden Labs, if that makes you feel better).


Frankly, I agree with the OP, no warning, overly aggressive, (ones with no warning and/or insufficient time to depart an area) scripts _are_ a bane to air travel, and sufficient time and consideration should be used when utilizing them, if one is to use them at all.

Thats assuming they're using llPushObject, if they're using llEjectFromLand then its perfectly within the terms of service. Same thing if its using llTeleportAgentHome. Those require someone to be on your land to work wich is why they're TOS legal, however, it does violate the TOS if it extends beyond a certain height and doesn't have a delay. My security system is really just a ban list to send certain people home if they go up to my home located in the sky far above the ban lines.

Where none would listen to a wise man, all will listen to a Fool...


Anyway, I have some interface things to work out, but after I'm done, this will be a free tool for use. One thing about it: I won't be releasing the sourcecode, and the system will be no-mod beyond the notecard to prevent tinkering to make it a griefing tool. It will have a MINIMUM of 15-20 seconds before going off, and will be wired to give a minimum of 3 warnings seperated by five seconds each. Sourcecode could be edited to get around that...

Yes, I know that someone can just build their own, I just don't want one related to MY name doing it.

Also, it will e-mail/message the admins if someone is sent home. Why? Ever hear of a security system that didn't warn you of a breakin?

That means I have to put a vendor out to allow people to get it. I'm trying to decide if I want to have it with a single vendor someplace and no-transfer, so to keep track of the number taken, or just allow it to run wild and allow copy transfer... Either way, it's going to be free, but hmnnnn.

Ah well. Won't matter till I get the thing usable with a nice interface.

Why not make it no mod, no copy, but transfer allowed.

If someone liked the script, say, I did, and I so did my friend, say person B, I could have the choice of either handing my copy over and getting another, or sending person B to get their own. Which would make it easier for some who have lag in shops, or for me to decide which option is best. Say, I'm going to slingo and person B is just dawdling, they go. Other way around, I give it to them and go get another copy.

Whether its no transfer or not, if its no copy then you can keep track of how many are enjoying your product.

Thanks for the invitation, so I can see your land at a distance and offer critique although you have me banned from it? How odd.

True that, but despite my citiation of Lee Linden's quasi-formal statement on the subject since push scripts are de facto permitted through lack of enforcement they are "allowed".

It was not clear to me which sort of device the OP encountered, but there are many nasty pushy ones out there.

And the whole concept is absurd anyway: unless you are on a private island, if I was determined to see who you were associating with or what you were talking about, there is little you can do to stop it. Please note, I don't nor will I, but anyone who cares to can. Unfortunately, SL is no stranger to absurdites.

How were you able to ascertain the location of the pusher object? Every time I go for a cross-grid drive, I get nailed by at least a few of these, on average a half-dozen or so. The worst offenders push me enough to glitch my client, forcing a relog and leading to vehicle litter like you mentioned. I get pretty frustrated and usually have to walk away trying to get close enough to track down the object/owner for an AR, so the offense is able to continue. =/

Often these security scripts are running in totally empty (other than me) sims. Ah well. I'm surprised these things don't show up on the PVP abuse screens, given the historical volume of complaining about them.

When it hit me, it ejected me from my shuttle craft.... which was easy enough to find. Obviously I'd only just crossed the border into the range of the eject script with the nose of the shuttle (where I was sitting).

So I just got close to it again, clicked on the shuttle to "Board", and as I was flying to the craft opened Help, and as soon as I sat in the seat of the shuttle hit Report Abuse, a moment before it ejected me again.

That's how I managed to find the location of the one that kicked me immediately, the one with the 6 second script I did exactly the same, but had 6 seconds to hit the button instead of it being a reaction test

Thankfully none of them were the type that kick you 3 sims away. Otherwise I'd have called a Linden straight away rather than filing an abuse.

Lewis

hehe small land. Since its only a chunk of the compaound I'm taking my ban lines down.. but if something come sup (or Im home and want privacy) up they go

As the owner of a executive charter service, I do find some of these security scripts to be a pain in the A**. It's realy embrassing when you are flying clients to a location at 500 meters up, when all the sudden everyone has been ejected from the aircraft.

I understand the need/desire for a security script, I just wish there was a height restriction and/or a mandatory warning system. I guess what made it so bad, was this weekend when I was at 500 meters. Our take off point was at my airport In Amelia (Northern Mainland) and our destination was on the southern mainland. A normal 10 minute flight took us almost 30 minutes due to security scripts ejecting everyone without notice.

At one location in the Southern Mainland (Close to a sandbox), there were players on the ground laughing as they repeatly netted flyers going by. As addicted as I am to flying, i was so disgusted to I TP'd back home after dropping off my clients.

my work shop is at 500 meter high and protected by a shield, if you get tp home due to it you HERE heading to my workshop

wich isnt allowed

what are you doing that high anyway^^

Sadly this is not always the case, Kyrah; more than once now, I have been unable to reach "safe" cruising altitude in a plane (altitude > 768 building cap + 96m scan range) because I was unable to find a window between push-enabled skyboxes.

Of course, "unable" is a strong way to put it; I mean to say that I hopped in a plane, tried to gain altitude, and was either pushed, tp'ed home, or pushed so hard the client glitched, then dropped to mid altitude, and tried again elsewhere unsuccessfully. It is an uncommon experience and I don't want to exaggerate, but it sure is annoying to get whacked by a skybox if no one's home. If you're *IN* your skybox and actively pixelscrewing or building your top-secret prim-shape, fine-- everyone has a legitimate need for privacy-- whatever sets llBuoyancy(1.0); for your boat. If you're not there, *TURN IT OFF*. =) I'm not singling you out, Kyrah. I have no idea where your skybox is. I'm using the general "you."