Stupid security scripts

Now whats really fun is getting around in the air without an aircraft in those nasty no fly areas..its fun to do but awkward.

I don't know why people are drawing parallels between sl and real life. I thought that one of the delights of second life was that it *isn't* real life, that the normal rules don't apply.

When I first came here, in 2003, it was a wonderful free place, full of creative people. You could wander about, go anywhere, do anything. Since then it seems to have taken on many of the worst aspects of real life. I really feel that in 90% of cases security scripts are not needed. How often are you doing things that you *really* don't want other people to see?

Unfortunately security scripts seem to have become a kind of passive griefing. They spoil other people's experience, and make second life that more unfriendly. I would hope that an open ambiance in second life would help the anti-social overcome some of their inhibitions, but unfortunately the way things are at the moment it seems to be reinforcing them.

It seems the logical development of all is it for us each to pay Linden Lab for the opportunity of downloading a bit of virtual land onto our own hard drives; we can then have the pleasure of skulking there without the danger of meeting another person.

I fly a large BIRD and not rocket powered Space Shuttle! It takes me longer that 30 seconds to reach the "safe" crusing level, which even you admit is not really safe. Also Umi chan has a hard time maintaining such a height.

I love Americans with their double speach! They are so full of themselves! Twisting words so they always have their way.

This is how it works, I only own 1536sq meters and His Lord or Lady own a couple of sims. His Lordship or Lady employ a security script that gives no warning and respects no height, no problem, I use the same script and would get banned! Money is the only truth in SL.

As of a privae enviroment, why is your speach more important than mine? A possible solution would be to make a place where "free flight" is possible. All land owners would have to agree on this before being allowed to buy land.

As for the "Lords and Ladies of Sl, I will grovel before a PIG before groveling before theirs and consider it an honor in compairison!

Warning: slightly disjointed due to multiple reponses in the same post

Reitsuki, you miss the point of actually FLYING to get somewhere, rather than simply P2P teleporting. There's as much fun in the mode of travel as there is the destination, if there even is one.

To put it in context:

I introduced a friend of mine to the ZX4 'toothless' chopper (a freebie I picked up at Yadni's that really isn't, but that's another story, but which I modded to remove the attack aspects from it). She and I spent a good portion of tonight flying round to various places, not really caring where we went or who we were seeing. Well, as traveling above the clouds does at times, it caused some sim handoff issues (which are actually MORE prevalent the higher you go, so don't give me any garbage about 'go 900m up'... you're ASKING to fall offworld at that point). This caused both myself AND the friend to have to relog every so often. When one of us did, the other would find a nearby flat place, and land for a bit, and explore near there until the party was reformed.

One place I had the misfortune of having to land was on a person's building on the northern continent. I quickly apologized and said my stop was brief, and waited for my friend to get to a point where she could resume flight. To my absolute SURPRISE, not only did they NOT toss me out on my ear, but the land's owner (a Paul D-- my memory of the last name is a bit hazy, but I'll remember it if I hear it) seemed quite happy to have so many visitors to the collective plots he calls his 'mistakes' and we actually had an interesting, and impromptu chat through the roof/ceiling. Paul here compliments my choice of vehicle, and I reply by asking him to come to a point where I can give him a copy, along with the instruction manual. I also landmarked the place, after being invited back. And Paul, if you ever read this post, PLEASE IM me in-world. I very rarely give out ratings, but you absolutely DESERVE at least one (and probably more) in the behavior category.


Now, this is how things SHOULD be, but in reality, they AREN'T, which brings me to my flip side.


I rent at an apartment complex that has low rent, but thankfully a decent landlord (name withheld). This place had offered previously, yet still continues to advertise, and provide a 'link' (as in an in-sim TP) to, a Japanese-style bathhouse. Curious, I tried the link. I was immediately sent to a place where I was told I had 10 seconds to leave the property or be forcibly ejected. Wondering just what in the world, I beat feet outta there.

Later on, figuring it was just something that wasn't taken care of, I try the same link again, only to have the same warning appear. Knowing this wasn't a mistake, I decide to let it go off. It's a common, ordinary Psyke's 'Security Orb' (AKA 'Griefer Ball', IMO), and even has the gall to actually ADVERTISE itself to the person it pushes (note to the creator, you DO have a push like the one your orb gives coming should I ever find you. Suck it up, and live with it. Don't like? Tough. Make better orbs). The owner of this thing DAMN near got an AR for it, but I decided to IM her directly and try to work through it. Her response to this was 'to keep griefers out'. I still may file an AR on the creator (

After playing around with it some, I get UNDER the ball, which pushes me THOUGH the floor to the ground below, which I sit back onto, and even 'past' the orb, which actually pushes me INTO the residence being 'protected'. Talk about ineffective. I decide to sit on part of the home, but it unsits me... what a gyp. I was looking forward to rendering it useless, too...



And to comment on Darkness's post, your point is absolutely INVALID. We are discussing air travel through the 'mainland' and the 'north continent' only, where a hightened expectation of unfettered air travel is sought.

The reason your points have no merit because you have said yourself it's a private island sim. Anyone who even ENTERS must do so explicitly (this goes for anyone whose sim is not directly bordered to the north, south, east or west by a (collective) mainland sim (if it can be proven to 'glitch' into one like Avalon easily and mistakenly, I might add those points too).



Now, BACK to another of Reitsuki's comments, this time about having ALL the land that border's someone else's land and setting up a TP Home script: HOW is it illegal?

It is legal to:

1) own land that surrounds a neighbor's parcel, and

2) set land to 'TP Home' as a means of security.

So what kind of doublethink goes into making it ILLEGAL to satisfy both conditions and surround your neighbor with TP Home scripts, as long as they don't extend onto said neighbor's land?

How does this even get classified as griefing, since a Landmark can easily bypass this petty attempt?

And more importanly, who in their right mind would even do something like that to begin with?



Now, in general opinio, I believe that those of us who like to fly in the mainland should begin a policy: if we are ejected from our vehicles without sufficient warning by a security device, we leave it if at all possible (those with no-copy vehicles should retrieve them, but if it's just a copy, rez a new one and continue on as if nothing happened). Maybe the debris that builds up from these events will finally convince the owner to remove the offending object.

This is not to say I'm encouraging an en masse aviator's assault, merely allowing a natural effect to take place.

I actually agree with you a private island is not the same as passing through on the mainland. I make my point in the manner I do because opponents of security scripts often do NOT make a distinction.I have been threatened with an AR before on the island because someone could not rez a plane and fly wherever they like on it.

The few times I has security scripts in use on the mainland (and this is going back about a year) I think the highest I ever had them set was 25 m. Just enough to give a small buffer above the build.

There used to be (and I am not sure if it is still in place) a rule the Lindens were willing to enforce that basically said access to a persons own land could not be blocked. Which at the time ment at least one boarder of the property had to be free of security be it LL red lines or security scripts. This existed specifically to address the issue of a small plot in the middle of a larger one with security. As I said this is going back a year or more so I just don't know if that rule is still on hte books.

Well, you're right that conditions 1 and 2, by themselves, are not illegal. However, combining them in such a way that restricts the surrounded land owner's ability to get to his property IS a violation.

That's an excellent idea, purposefully leaving vehicle litter when ejected by a griefer ball. I'll start doing that next time I go for a flight

I admit no such thing!



Damn them pesky facts!



No, you wouldn't A TON of people use security scripts that own very tiny plots. It's perfectly legal.



Private property isn't subject to free speach unless the landowner wants it to be. The whole of SL is the private property of LL. They get to decide.



Ok, seriously, you've gone waaaaaay out into left field now and I don't have a bloody clue what your on about.

No, I don't. I make and sell vehicles. Vehicles are my lifeblood in secondlife, and basicly the only thing I really enjoy anymore. Don't think you can lecture ME on the joy of flying verses teleporting - I want teleporting removed so that my sales soar!



Ask LL. They declared it so. That's not me speaking.

/invalid_link.html

And you know what? That's all that really needs to be said on this issue. The policy is fairly clear cut, security scripts at altitude need to have some formal warning before activating, otherwise they are a hindrance to travel and thusly AR-able.


Ranma; the rest of this tripe is just that hyperbole of the worst sort, there is no need to drag nationalities into this. News flash, not everyone on the forums are 'americans', nor is there any reason to adopt some us vs. them attitude, we're likely all on the same 'side' here, responsible use of security scripts with adequate warnings.

Some of the people you seem to be so vigorously tearing after are some of the long time innovators of aviation in SL. Hardly "against" you in any fashion and most are extremely sympathetic to the abuse of non-warning/inadequate warning security systems as they impact not only personal enjoyment but business interests.

That said however, merely pointing out that in SL people do in fact have the LL sanctioned right to utilize security scripts within the boundaries described in the above link doesn't mean they are 'after you' or advocating abusive scripts. They are merely pointing out the rules as they exist at this point.

LL should perhaps clarify the warning interval and perhaps extend it some I agree, however at this point the best way to handle a no warning security script (at altitude) is to AR it as again is LL's currently stated policy. Then perhaps write a _reasoned_ non-emotive request to LL in regards to extending/clarifying its warning interval/policy.

There was no need for all the drama, but I guess it was diverting or something huh? We can work together, isn't much need for finger pointing or waggling.

I still find it mildly amusing that it was my question in the hotline that got us the guidelines we have. BUT, I do think it is long past time for the built in land tools to get a major revamp and put more power to control things in the hands of the mainland land owner. AND it is time for futher clarification of the above guidlines. With both maybe some sort of compromise can be reached on security.

Sellador if you follow the above link and read my intial hotline question you will see a prime example of why some people simply need security. It isn't being anti social as much as it is needing a safe zone when the social etc become too much for fragile persons.

Tell me where it is official Linden policy that the entire building zone is private property.

They imply otherwise. They limit non-boosted flight to a fairly low level, they limit ban lines to a level under that. That means at the very least that the region between 40M AGL and the maximum flight limit (200-or-so meters absolute or about 100 meters over ground level, whichever is greater) is semi-public land. They have given out jetpacks as bonuses and warned people not to approach *occupied* skyboxes... but have said nothing about unoccupied ones.

The "right to privacy" in SL is very limited, and property owner rights are not absolute. Deal with that reality.

llTeleportAgentHome()
llEjectFromLand()

Deal with that reality.

That list isn't good enough, if you follow the reasoning that Lee follows to get to that list. With a large build, 10s may not be long enough to get off it, and the boundaries of the parcel may not be clear. Many aircraft can't significantly change direction or altitude in 10s (for example, realistic ultralights or balloons).

It's incumbent on people who deploy security scripts to adapt them to the circumstances of their land and build.

Read the rest of my post.

Don't be silly. I can provide a link to the Wiki pages for llPushObject and llRezObject just as easily. There are limits on how security scripts can be applied, just like there are limits on how push and projectile weapons can be used. On top of that, the limits the Lindens set on weapons use are very loose, and people who push those limits are likely to get (legitimated) ARed even if they don't cross the lines the Lindens set... and there's no reason to treat security scripts any differently.

The reality is, property rights are not absolute. They depend on community and cooperation to have meaning. Not only are they limited by Linden Labs, they must be limited by common sense. Simply declaring that everything from 0 to 768 is private property and thus anything the landowner does that's not actually against Linden Labs loose guidelines is OK is foolish.

I did. Did you read the whole of Lee Linden's post? The rationale behind the guidelines is just as important as the guidelines themselves, and it's not clear cut. Any guidelines HAVE TO be considered a minimum to work from, and you have to adapt them to the circumstances of your build.

ok so what is a reasonable level. Much of the reason the Linden given red bars are useless is if the land level is too high they will not cover a building. Would say 100m above actual land level be reasonable?

I did and in my own posting I gave the only course currently available option. AR abusive scripts as defined by LL and Lee's post, and ask LL to revisit the issue, and clarify.

That is the reality we've to deal with, suggestions and what ought to be aren't the reality, nor is pointing out the obvious inadequacies of those policies and thinking it profound. No one is arguing they are adequate just that this is the system as it exists. The reality is we are forced to work with, what we currently have, until LL decides to change.

There in lays my suggestion to go to LL about those very same and valid concerns.

LL have declared push not-ok

LL have declared (through lack of declaration otherwise) Teleport and Eject OK.

Thus are my rights established.

Anything else is a courtesy, common or not.

ok I have to both agree and disagree. My own experience in dealing with Linden policy is that when approached with a well thought out plan that demonstrates acceptatance by multiple sides of an issue they are very willing to discuss and possibly implement the plan as policy.

Hence my personal belief that if people could stop trying to score rhetorical points on each other long enough to work together and develop a plan that takes into account the needs of those on both sides of the fence we could get a concise ruling from the lindens on the matter.

As long as we are sniping and arguing that will never happen.

Quite right, which was what I've been trying to say from the outset. ^.-

Things are fine as is, people will always gripe. Don't want us building at 500 or 700 meters?

Lower the ceiling so NOONE can get that high, to build or fly. its the only really fair way to handle the situation if its changed, because lowering build height is going to get complaints and they will simply be put back up where they are now.

What is there to discuss?

I have been slammed into the ground to -10000 before logging off, I have been dismounted, and I have been pushed 3 or more Sims and fired upon by resident’s weapons systems. If this was rl, would be pushing up the daisies! Also people would complain about my and Tarn body parts "littering" there sacred ground.

I have sent in abuse reports and nothing ever happens, ever. Soon my land will be almost completely surrounded. It is too difficult to go straight up in the confines of my land thus the high altitude solution will not work even if I wanted to. What else is left? TP and I hate it. Asked for a set of stairs and the creator wanted to put in a TP! Breaks the sprit of a ship and even the game! Using TP to go from one safe bubble to safe bubble.

The security script users will do what they please, when they please and to whom they please and Linden Labs will do NOTHING! I have seen no action done. Have checked the "police" reports. I could not find the posting from Lee Linden and my conversation with Mia Linden was strange.

I don’t thing people are out to get me personally, just to enforce their whim on others. Since I did not get a clear answer from Linden Labs am refraining from setting up my own script defense. (Stupid thing would only hurt the innocent anyway).

The only talk I hear is to accept things as they are no possible compromise, in other words a Hopkins Choice.

Reitsuki Kojima, you are a puzzle to me. How can vehicles be your thing when you take the position that you do? If there was no TP, We would be very limited in our travels. Flying would not be a pratical way of traveling and what about the landless? Walking down the narrow SL protected ground. What a dull world SL would become!

If you see me online, would be happy to accept your IM's!