The Profanity Conundrum: Here's the deal.

Since you have to sign in to access the forum, you have to follow all the rules. Having to sign in makes it clear that you are a Second Life user, using part of the system that Linden Lab makes available, and that means that you have to follow all the rules that Linden Lab makes.

Just as you aren't allowed to bring the grid down with repeated object creation, you aren't allowed to bring the forums down with repeated thread creation. You are obligated to follow the rules in every part of the service.

All of the service that is not explicitly labeled as Mature is PG. That is in the Community Standards.

There are no parts of the service labeled M other than the Mature regions in-world.

Hence, every part of the virtual world and everything on secondlife.com, including but not limited to the forums, is PG.

Coco,

Thanks for posting it all together.

Now the question - what is PG. This thread has gone on for pages without any Linden response. If there is a rule? What are the specifics and will enforcement be consistant and even handed?

I can say fuck, but I can't show you what it means.

ROFL
*logs into SL, flys over to Gallinas*

I didn't think there was a problem. If there's no problem I'd rather not have things spelled out or made black-and-white. Excessive use of swearing can serve as a minor alarm, and the grown-ups can use swearing if they feel passionater about something. Having a PG forum gives swearing a walk-on-the-wild-side quality that enhances it.

I like PG areas inworld because when a stranger with no self-control and an immature desire to shock comes to me and says, '#$%*^&%@#@$$%$!!!!!" and rezzes a photo of naked women, I can say, 'Avatar X, this is a PG sim - and your behavior is not appropriate."

No. This is exactly my point. The wording says one thing (Invect spelled it out pretty well), the policy in action is quite another thing.

I would have to say the pg ruling makes you uncomfortable. That is fine. In all fairness however, I too have to see that the free use of cussing at each other; makes others uncomfortable. Reguardless of; it's in fun or not. I think LL is trying to make everyone as comfortable to post as possible. They see the big picture not the individuals immediate needs. I'm trying to see things that way too. So yeah I gotta side with LL on this one. The forums historicaly have been pg, it's their rules. I just gotta follow their lead.

If you feel strongly about changing the rating maybe start a prop. on this. I don't think anyone is right or wrong in saying what their comfort level is when it comes to cussing.

Me personaly? I could do without it in the forums.

In world? Heck no I have a tradition when I buy a sim I ask everyone go to the highest part and yell some things they never would say in RL lol it's a riot!

Cat

Cat,

No disrespect meant here, but you have had some of the most expletive filled posts I have seen in these forums. That is not to dredge up your past, just noting that you had no problem letting your language fly freely, so why the backtrack on it? I am all for showing people respect and not attacking them personally, especially with profanity - no one likes to have someone say "fuck you" to them, that is just plain rude. However, I do think it is silly to get all worked up over an expletive here or there when being used for emphasis.

We are adults. There are far more important things to worry about in SL than LL micromanaging the forums to edit out every bad word. I would much rather they put efforts into fixing the buggy software, the lag, the promised but not delivered features, and dealt with real discipline problems, not chase after adults for saying shit or fuck. I am fine with their enforcement as it has been handled now. I am not the one clamoring to suddenly have them get more strict about it. Reading the forums, foul language is not even that widespread - it just seems a completely ridiculous and petty thing to be focused on.

You might not feel that way had it been aimed toward you in a hostile fashion.

Then again, that might not bother you either. But it seems to me that a person who isn't used to that kind of horrible treatment, and is offended by it, could expect not to have to endure it on the forums, particularly when there is supposedly a rule against it.

coco

I have had it said to me in a hostile fashion - I am the person who was told "fuck your opinions" repeatedly. However, I can handle it - I survived, unscathed. I am a big boy, an adult, and I don't go through life with this mistaken belief that I won't ever be offended. I've had racial slurs said to me repeatedly in SL and even received death threats. Ultimately it says more about the person saying it anyway. I don't let someone's words have any power over me.

BTW, if someone has someone say something to them that offends them, they do have a wonderful ability called putting that person on ignore. Even a forum rule of no swearing in place with strict enforcement would still not prevent someone from ever being offended - if someone really wants to say something, they are going to and just risk a warning anyway.

Agreed. Although I'd mean it with plenty of disrespect because rank hypocrisy, however amusing, is pretty lame.

Glad I'm not the only one to notice the wild inconsistency.

Cristiano, this requires restraint and maturity and that's asking a bit much, my friend! Much better, obviously, to have a tedious mommy rulle in place, neh? That way people can get in trouble and other people can say "Haha, you got in trouble!"

Or perhaps "You got in trouble, which is exactly the way it would be if you were my child."

I mean, that's what this all boils down to, right?

No. It boils down to the language adults use with other people they don't know personally and well, particularly as addressed toward other people.

Adults who exercise restraint and maturity know this basic tenet of civilized behavior.

coco

no

No, it boils down to adults recognizing that others may not have the same set of standards, morals, background, etc.. that they do, and should not try to impose their own set of values upon another person. If you don't like someone's propensity for swearing, then what is stopping you from putting them on ignore. There you fully control your environment - you no longer have to see them swear. Yet time and again, people who are against something want to control it for everyone. The use of expletives for emphasis, or more importantly just wanting the freedom to do so even if not used, does not indicate a lack of maturity or civility, no matter how much your condescending statement implies otherwise.

Those who do not wish to have bad posts report filed against them for using expletives in PG areas of the service, such as the forums, can easily avoid this by following the rule stated in the Community Standards and not using expletives in PG areas of the service.

Does this mean you'll never call me a fucking moron again?

Probably not never.

More likely for the time being.

These things come in phases, you see.

No it doesn't. You are trying to establish for a global forum what you think is correct as the universal norm, based on where/how you grew up and your experiences.

Polite behavior is completely culture based. There is no global norm. Even within the U.S. we come from so many different cultures that establishing one right way doesn't work very well.

If you think what is right and proper is set, then I suggest traveling to North Africa, India, or Turkey. Don't be surprised if they think you're a rude American.

(on a totally off-topic note... Traveling to Turkey as a single woman did more to open my eyes to reality of culture-based good manners than any amount of telling me about it would have. I was fortunate to have had excellent advice, so I knew how to dress and act, which in turn opened new experiences to me)

Linden Labs had the power to impose behavior guidelines based on what they think is appropriate cause they own the playpen.

Yes... instead you will be called a fornicating pinhead.

Although this thread seems to have degenerated into a personal discussion, I'd like to clarify the original topic. As mentioned in my earlier post and clarified by Robin - the confusion appears to fall upon the use of the PG vs Mature in the Community Standards We borrowed the familiar language from the MPAA ratings by using "PG" - PG in Second Life does not mean "Parental Guidance" but instead is closer to "Not Mature".

The Community Standards state that PG areas (including the web site/forum) should not contain "intense language or expletives" (my emphasis) - the Forum Guidelines further this by stating that "aggressively offensive personal attacks" (again, emphasis mine) will be removed. In practice, this means that minor cussing has been acceptable on the Second Life forums, but slurs, vulgarity, chat sex, descriptions of sex, etc. are not. In other words, "Quit your bitching!" (exclamation) is OK while "You are a raving bitch" (personal attack) is not OK.

If you see a post that you think violates the Community Standards - uses intense language - or the Forum Guidelines - contains an aggressively offensive personal attack - please report it for review by the Forum Moderators and Administrators.

Thanks Jeska for clarifying.

Jeska, thank you so much for clarifying this topic!!

*HUGE sigh of relief*

to everyone else, if you still feel that your personal experience is being violated by the use of profanity on the forums, i had another idea.. going back to the filters suggestion. what about if a language filter could be inculded as a forum option per account? as in, if you don't want to see expletives, simply check a box, "censor profanity" for example, and it would censor these words for you on a personal basis. not sure if it's doable, but i'm assuming that under the clarified ruling that Jeska has elucidated for us, that some people would appreciate such an option.

So we can keep this shit up?

Post of the week.