The Profanity Conundrum: Here's the deal.

Put simply: the very last thing the chronic essayists want are solutions.

What would they bleat about?

If one member cannot post profanity or tell other members "FU," which is still the same insult whether its spelled out or not, then NO ONE should get away with it, particularly a resmod.

Yes, but I was trying to make a subtle point. This message board like all message board software has the ability to turn on a filter. The filter is not on. LL doesn't really care about the use of profanity. Coconut should stop trying to police us like we are her damn children. She has been on this kick for months, and no one wants it or cares.

Does the Teen Grid have its own seperate forums?

If it does,doesn't that make this whole thread a moot point? We're adults in this forum,right?

You're only young once but you can be immature FOREVER!

No simply asking how long it takes for someone to become a netnanny. Coming in for 3 seconds and telling people to piss off... seems a nice way to join a 'community' (as I'm told this is supposed to be).

I find it strangely funny that in my saying 'you don't have to listen' I acknowledge that my freedom of speech doesn't come with a covernote that all must listen.

You on the other hand, have the mindset that all you don't wish to hear should not be said.

Well, life sucks - buy a helmet. Your last name ain't Linden nor are you a recently appointed hall monitor - so you opinion will remain just that. I ain't going anywhere - and as long as I'm here I'm gonna speak my mind.

Love it, hate it, till I'm thrown out your just gonna have to live with it.

All right, guys, you aren't going to like this, but here's the way it is, as I see it, after thinking about it several days now.

(a) Do the forums need to be PG? Well, you might not prefer it, and I might not prefer it, but as things stand - yes. They must be PG.

Why? Because, the Second Life world itself is divided into PG and M, and people are given ways in the world to avoid things such as foul language. If the world were offered as entirely M, then the forums could be as well.

The Lindens designated the forums PG a long time ago doubtless because they decided not to set up two separate forums as PG and M. Given that decision, you then cannot have the forums default to M, because then the PG people HAVE NO FORUMS.

If you are going to have the world divided into PG and M, then you must either have two corresponding forums, or you must choose the least exclusive designation for your default.

(b) What constitutes PG? Since when did it mean that when poster z says "f u " to poster x it's okay even under PG standards, because we all know that poster z is just joking with poster x and they're actually good buddies?

That doesn't fly irl, as regards other venues which receive PG, R, and other specific ratings, such as movies or online games. It also doesn't fly in the real world in general, where it is universally understood that words such as the f word are limited only to certain extremely casual venues, or strict sanction occurs. (Such as ejection, firing, and social ostracism.)

It also doesn't fly in the PG areas of the game. If one person reports another for saying "f" in the welcome area, then that person will get disciplined for saying "f," regardless of whether he was just horsing around with friends or saying it in an antagonistic way to someone he hates. He can even get reported for saying "f that," in an off-handed fashion, and will receive a warning or other discipline for it.

(c) To determine exactly what words are allowable in PG or M areas, one might reasonably assume the Lindens have done some research in the ratings systems used for motion pictures, and those used in gaming, and any other relevant venues, and formed their own specific guidelines similar to those understood in their implementation in similar venues of society.

If they haven't done so, then they need to. And they also need to be specific about which language is allowed and which isn't, in the same manner that the other associations are specific in their guidelines.

(c) Regardless of variations, one thing is for sure: The f word is not PG.

(d) The Lindens need to revisit this whole issue, guided by the decisions of other major associations, and be specific in the language allowed. "Perceived intent" just won't do. If they wish to make the boards M, then they must make the whole grid M as well, or they will be offering less service to some residents than to others, in terms of free and reasonable access to the forums.

All this means that either these bad words need to go, or we need two message boards. And I would stress that in the interim, at minimum, the resmods should be instructed to avoid their use.

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As for me, I'm never "offended" at bad language. Language is language, and the more you have of it, the better you can communicate. Profanity is the spice of life. You must have some sort of profanity or you can't really communicate in the full range you would like.

But "ranges" themselves vary, and can be manipulated. If you have followed my posting, you will note that I DO have a special sort of "message board" profanity, and I DO use it. You know when I say "damn" or "hell" that I am really stressing that point, even expressing contempt; and that if I say "frickin" or "freakin," I'm virtually apoplectic over whatever it is.

I do that because (a) I am following the TOS, which requires language on the forums to be PG, and I believe myself to be choosing language that meets those requirements, and (b) as a writer, I have always limited my use of stronger language to the real world, where it won't sit there forever, lol.

So: It's a bummer, yes it is. It is always a bummer to have to search for a word which isn't nearly as strong or as readily in reach as the vernacular one may use around one's friends.

I am not "offended" by words. I do, however, think that the harsher language shouldn't be allowed here, and should be removed whenever it appears, for the following reasons:

(a) Like a poster said in another thread, many people ARE offended. They are the majority. And though language changes, the f word (and certain others) are still designated M, and it will be a while before that changes, if ever.

(b) Rough language is aggressive by nature, UNLESS you are with friends. When I have been on the receiving end of rough language in these forums, believe me, it has not be from friends.

Rough language raises the level of aggression among posters higher, and thus degrades the level of discourse. It invites an escalation to similar language from the other resident, which escalates hostilities. It also puts the one who will NOT use those words back at a distinct disadvantage, and that's not fair.

So, to the Lindens:

(1) If we're going to have profanity rules, let's have them, okay? Or NOT. I don't care which. But let's not have this sort of thing muddy down to, "Well so and so, I like him, he's my friend, and I'm sure he didn't mean anything by it, but look at what SHE said! And she never says stuff like that, so let's get her, cause see, her INTENT is worse."

Huh-uh. Won't do. Whoever told Cybin that it's only the "intent" that counts and not the actual words has rocks in his/her head, as far as any profanity guidelines are concerned.

(2) Make these rules clear, at least as clear as they are laid out by the movie and gaming associations. Apply those rules without exception.

If we aren't supposed to say <this or that word>, then make it the job of the resmods to EDIT THEM OUT. Every time.

(3) If you decide that the "f" word or any other such words are EVER okay in the forums - AND I DO MEAN EVER - then you must admit that the forums are M and designate them as such.

(4) If you designate the forums M, then go ahead and designate the entire world M, otherwise it is not fair as the forums won't be (and really aren't now) accessible to those who require a, shall we say, more refined atmosphere in which to conduct their activities.

If you let the forums stand as M, but still offer the world as PG and M, then you must offer an identical forum as well, but which is maintained as PG.

Without these forums being rated PG and consistantly moderated that way, users who don't like mucking about in profanity are driven away.

coco

I read another poster saying "f you" directly to another poster. I was shocked. I thought we had gone beyond that. Dunno the rules have always been there, use them. t

I mean the last thing *I* want to get into is a heated debate on racism over 'the little black dress'

You mean ... the little colored dress.

If you think you are being persecuted, you are probably right just based on how you interpret what's getting posted... doesn't mean the writer was INTENDING to single anyone out, or even insult any one person - they probably intended to piss everyone off. Hope this makes sense.

Hitler had the right idea, let's start killing Jews again

OMGZ I am so ARing this!!!

Never underestimate the persecution complex. Regardless of what the writer intends, there are those who will take any comment personally, even when it has absolutely nothing to do with them. Yes, there is an art to the thinly veiled attack, but there is also a fair amount of self-victimization in these forums as well.

If it does,doesn't that make this whole thread a moot point? We're adults in this forum,right?

Originally Posted by Robin Linden
The PG designation shouldn't be taken literally to mean 'parental guidance'. We borrowed from the movie rating system in using that rating name, but its real value is in designating a space in SL where profanity, nudity, and adult content won't be present.

Oh, wow, I really have to agree with you here. Very well said.

Once I saw someone on the forums tell someone else "Fuck your opinions!" I was really very shocked and offended. That stuff should really be punished, I think. Don't you?