Forum policing... what should LL do if anything?

Because I would like the rating changed and for LL to be honest. The way it is now is a farce if you ask me. Why claim it is PG at all? I see no purpose in it if it is not going to be enforced.

I would not be part of a truly PG forum either. How boring would that be? Personally for the most part I like the discussions that take place here. Kendra is a perfect example. She has every right to say whatever she wants in a non-rated forum and I am free to respond however I wish. That is the way it should be. Why LL wants to call this a PG forum is beyond me.

lol... that is what I am talking about. Hanney told me that the forums were rated PG and yet we can say "fuck" as often as we like... lol. I say do away with the PG thingy altogether.

Jessica, ty for contributing and since you are monitoring this thread perhaps you could address why the PG rating is not dropped? It would make more sense to do so and if there is a logical reason not to it might clear up some confusion.

Ah... in the "baby and bathwater" dept., I am sometimes hesitant to call General a "subforum", as it has such a diverse range of content. (And it's YUGE, Donald Trump stylee!) Including, yes, the sort of behavior you're referring to -- but there are really gold threads like lilone writing about Wilde, Paris and Darko's memorial project, all the Happy Birthday wishes and personal sentiments, and general... well, GENERAL COMMUNITY SPIRIT. Which I think is fantastic, because the light can still shine through.

A personal attack is a personal attack, no matter where it's posted. Considering the size and scope of the General forum, I don't want it removed. However, I do wish for more personal accountability and consideration for others when expressing one's self.

Hmmpff, the General forums in a way are like the daily paper. It doesnt matter who proliferates information its there good, bad and ugly.

The thing that befuddles the mind is the connotation of the term "PG"

first I would like to ask are we all not over 18years of AGE?

Second doesnt PG mean Parental Guidance? I am a parent I have a 9 year old son but my father and mother do not dictate to me what I can and cannot read.

Granted I do understand the need to delegate and associate forum content per its topics however some topics oover a much broader spectrum than one sub forum entry.

I have refrained from posting a few things because

A there is no sub forum that covers it.
B whether it is important to me or as a community whole the primary "Zone" of communication is within the General forums.

Previously we had off topic and rants but those were removed and thus an outlet to communicate during hours of not being able to connect lost.

To some the forums are the method of communicating with the world because when they are in world they want to enjoy building scripting and things that can only be done in world.

Chatting and general speach on topics can be carried on out of the virtual environment of Second Life. Primarly due to when in world there is only so much time to do things.

I digress for now but I will continue this tomorrow as my work day is done.

Sincerely, Shadow Weaver

billy,

I think they shouldn't lock threads at all.

Locking a thread can (a) depending on the stage at which it's locked, give one side or another an advantage or (b) allow a posting to attack somebody without giving them the right of reply.

Let's make it clear, I have been utterly disgusted by some of the recent postings in these forums, but I have always valued free speech, and would not wish to see legal viewpoints suppressed, however repulsive I might find them.

I dunno, I think it would just spill over into other *sub-forums*.

Further to my last message, the thread 'Catherine Cotton is Wonderful' is a perfect example of why threads should not be closed.

A thread offering messages of support was sabotaged by a moronic griefer, and Jeska Linden by closing the thread colluded in the griefing, presumably unintentionally.

Well, my observation is that this has already happened. Except in each subforum, it takes on a peculiar tone all its own... for example, in the Scripting forums, personal attacks might be veiled behind a barrage of technical language.

I'm semi-jesting, but there is some truth to this.

I couldn't agree more Selador and yes Nolan you are correct too. It would sure spill over somewhere. Doing away with the general forum would not work. Besides, where would we go for this much free entertainment? hehe

I think maybe some people are confusing "PG" with civility?

The things that qualify a forum/chatroom/movie/etc to be PG are mostly concearned with foul languge, obcenities, hate speach, x-rated material, etc and absolutely nothing to do with whether people are being nice to each other or not. Its theoreticly possible to have a G-rated flame war. Of course, that's where things like forum guidelines and community standards come in.

I think it's fine that the Lindens aren't taking an overly hard-handed approach to moderation but there have been times where I wish they'd been more responsive to situations where a moderator was called for. Case in point: that time a few weeks ago where a troll started an Anshe-flaming thread. I neg-rated and reported the thread while it was still one page long (as well as posting a "don't feed the troll" sign that went unheeded, apparently), The thread was finaly locked almost 12 hours and 11 pages of flame war later.

I think overall, the forum moderation is handled fairly well - a definite improvement over a few months ago. I am glad that they have stopped the policy of thread deletions - people would often purposely try to get a thread they disagreed with deleted, and then pages of conversation - some of it quite useful at times would just disappear, which is the worst kind of censorship. Locking a thread may be frustrating, and is still subject to abuse, but it at least leaves a context there.

No one will ever agree completely with how the forums are moderated - it is impossible to please everyone. Even with seemingly clear cut issues, there is so much grey area that it makes moderation an imprecise science, unless you want something as locked down and restrictive as the TSO Stratics forums, which none of us would like. Do the personal attacks get out of control? Definitely. However, we are adults, and unless you move into the territory of just aggregious disregard for the TOS, I think the uproar over personal attacks is a bit silly. Oh no, someone called you an asshole! People argue, fight, make up, fight again - it is a cycle, even in adults, especially when there are so many passionate and diverse personalities in SL and the forums.

Congratulations to the Lindens on finding what seems to be an acceptable balance between freedom and moderation. No one likes to have their posts edited or locked, but ultimately if we did some self editing in the first place, much of it could be avoided.

Now there is an idea... A "G" rated flame war! Let me give it a try:

Kendra... you are a poopy head!

Hmmm... that felt kinda good... hehe

We're all over 18. I really don't think the PG'ness of this forum is an issue. I think LL does a fine job moderating without being overbearing. It's a no win situation for them no matter what they do. We all have the ability to read or not read, ignore or not ignore, and so on. I'm really not sure what the problem is. Let people be people. Those that find the forums too risque for them (which would be pretty amazing in my opinion) are under no obligation to read them. The more people that raise issues like this the more likely we are to find LL compelled to censor more heavily. My advice is that if you're fine with the forums as they are don't bring this topic up at all.

Selador Cellardoor, am I to understand that your calling me a "moronic griefer"?
I mean it was a coincidence that my post was last before Jeska closed it?
If you are I will chalk it up to considering the source since you do not know me.
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I think the forums should have a battle royal zone.

Where anything goes.

Where childish minds and those that lack true debating skills can as one person so humbly put it "kick the other person in the groin till they submit".

Anything else is a diluted perception of reality.

Interesting --my post gets edited with no obscenities contained therein --but Billy gets to say "fuck" and "poopy-head" untouched.

Fascinating. Seems my experiment was successful.

I just happend to read a few threads I missed once I got home and all I can say right now is this.

Be very careful what you complain about. I noted in another thread that Robin said they are taking away the top pics list from in world. All I can say to those that wanted it gone is GOOD job and everyone here is complaining about sensorship.

Cristiano has said it not once but several times in his postings. If people sensored themselves we wouldnt have the trivial problems we do.

In reference to the Lindens Top Picks List being taken away again good Job ********

Public sensorship of a generous silent kudo system LL put in place to reward those that they as INDIVIDUALS thought had neat places.

Keep running ya mouths people and the forums will end up like TSO forums cause whether you believe it or not LL is listening.


<<shakes head and closes out thread in utter disgust.

Shadow

Just wanted clarify what we mean by "PG" forums - the forums are PG in the context of Second Life's PG/M dichotomy. Minor cussing is OK, but slurs, vulgarity, chat sex, descriptions of sex, etc. are verboten. In other words, "Quit your bitching!" is OK while "You are a raving bitch" is not OK.

Basically, we follow the Community Standards for Indencey, copied here for your conveniance (or find it here: http://secondlife.com/comstandards.php)

"Second Life is an adult community, but Mature material is not necessarily appropriate in all areas (see Global Standards below). Content, communication, or behavior which involves intense strong language or expletives, nudity or sexual content, the depiction of sex or strong violence, or anything else broadly offensive must be contained within private land in areas rated Mature (M). Names of Residents, objects, places and groups are broadly viewable in Second Life directories and on the Second Life website, and must adhere to PG guidelines."

Thanks for the clarifications, Jeska. I think you have the most thankless job in all of SL, and I for one think you're doing a fine job. I think the old saying "you can't please all of the people all of the time" was invented for forum moderators

If you meant your experiment, which shows everyone that you are indeed a poopy head I agree… you were completely successful.

Go ahead and admit it… you are just mad because you have kooties!!!

Kendra has kooties... kendra has kooties!!!

Yes... this “G” rated flaming experiment is satisfying indeed. To heck with all of that other “serious” flaming stuff, this is allot more fun! I think you all should give it a try and it should be endorsed the “official” flaming style of SL.

Indeed. Thank you Jeska!

Heh, I agree. Just the other day I was thinking - "sucks to be Jeska".

Yes, TY for your response Jeska. I agree that you must have a thankless job and I join the others in saying TY for your efforts.

::::::raises eyebrow::::::

frankly, i wouldn't police this forum at all. i would concentrate on the information & suggestion forums and heavily moderate them to keep the threads constructive. the general and off-topic communities could implode themselves silly without me having to suffer through it.

conversely, if i did moderate this general forum, you'd be thinkin police state because i wouldn't explain anything to you other than the fact that i had edited your post, locked your thread or deleted your account. if you didn't like it, you could talk to the cursor because i wouldn't be listening to ya.

Oh, I dunno - she gets cool make overs for free