Open Spaces Announcement & Talk with M and Jack Linden

/me is less optimistic than Jack Linden.

Not sure how that fits in but my point remains.

They said the load on openspace was a problem. Now they're rebranding it and changing the price but I see nothing about how they're going to fix the overload problem.

Quoting Jack Linden first reply in this forum...:

@Meade: To begin with Homesteads will be running 4 per CPU, but as we now work on ways to improve performance one of the options we'll be looking at is to change that ratio to 3 per CPU. That gives more memory headroom and is obviously less load on the CPU. It may not be the route we take, but it's one possibility.


He mentioned that it is just one possibility..not exactly that they're likely end up with three of them to a core..I think that if it was likely, they would have made it clear from the beginning...of course it is just my opinion...


Whops! sorry...while was posting it was already replied by some other users!!

They have already said they're planning on reducing the number of avatars and limiting scripts to reduce the load on the CPU caused by Homestead/Openspace sims, as well as possibly decreasing the number of sims per core. I am personally of the opinion that there is a significant overhead per sim, regardless of whether the number of scripts or avatars are limited, and that they are likely to end up having to spend the extra cores to maintain reasonable performance.

2 duel cores OK ...cool... so 4 sims per server 16 OS per server.
16 x 250 = $4000 per server upfront payment from open spaces with monthly maint of

16 x 75 = $1200 per server per month,
16 x 95 = $1520 per month per server jan 1
16 x 125 = $2000 per month per server after june

Now compair $2000.00 a month to mainland servers cost of $780.00 a month or even full sims at 1180 a month.

mainland full sim income per server
4 x 195 = $780
private estate full sims income per server
4 x 295 = $1180
Openspaces micro sims income per server
16 x 75 = $1200
Homested 1/4 sims income per server
16 x 125 = $2000

Is it me or is something bass ackwards with the pricing.

It was nice to be encouraged to write. Typically people write to people because they believe there was an error or misunderstanding; they hope their words can help.

I’m not sure but I think it was about a year ago I bought my first sim. Never liked renting in RL so I took a shot. Was pretty lucky (not a blessed kinda guy ) had some really great friends. I think I had 4 Sims before I got my first void group of four. Felt it was a waste with the prim reduction, I think it was like 25% less then you’d get for the price of a single sim but I can’t really remember now. We needed some play room for our residents so we created four different themes for play in the estate. It was at my expense, no one had to kick in, so you know I was losing money…. But I friggin loved the place. Everyone loved it.

One day I logged in and DrMyEyes Snookums and Danielle Idigo, my friends and co creators of the estate informed me that we now had 3750 prims on all the low prim Sims, the same as a full prim…. WOW great. What an opportunity room for horse trails, room for boating, room for flying around with your friends. What a great idea, the Lindens had done a great thing.

We went to the residents advised them of the change and inquired about their feelings of converting all the Sims to low prim. It was pretty much unanimous, we did it. The three of us worked our asses off, designing, terraforming, planning horse trails and waterways… we knew we could make a great place.

Almost all residents took more prims than they had before, even with the increase of the land size. We made a 5% retention rule for prims, have to leave 5% unused for all the residents. We check sim performance, look at wild scripts, and keep the residents informed of issues we see. We worked hard for the privilege of serving our residents and we have some great residents.
We now have 50 Sims in the group. All connected with horse trails, bridges and waterways. We have a full prim sim and one low prim available for the residents use for activities and gathering and encourage its use. Most Sims have two residents, next is one owner Sims and lastly three owner Sims, three is the limit. No barriers, no security orbs outside your home, open land open water. We’ve been told by many that it’s the best place they’ve seen in SL.

From time to time I noticed lag issues, checked the sim and nothing. Then I found out about the 16 sim per server thing. So this means I do good, take care of my property and some thoughtless or uninformed person messes up the whole server and we suffer.

So I went to the Lindens and asked to get three servers for myself, forty-eight Sims three servers. If we maintain the servers properly, control scripts etc. then no lag, we ignore our responsibilities and we suffer, sounds fair to me.

Was told oh no you don’t want that… one server goes down takes out sixteen Sims at once. I said oh yes I do. We can lose sixteen Sims for a day, not a problem at all and it’s way better than the alternative. I can restart them all when required and keep a healthy server in the process. Nope not a chance I was told.

Now this. I have apologized to all my residents. It was my plan from the beginning. Encouraged by the increase in prims on open spaces and then the reduction in price I convinced all of my current residents to convert. Many who are currently paying 100 USD monthly will be changed to 150 USD. Some have already abandoned. Smaller will do the same. Can you blame them?

And now we have this great place and it’s gonna go to pieces in a couple of months. And I’m really not sure why. So maybe you can explain the following to me so I can embrace the theory of common good or possibly necessity in the actions that are about to take place.

1. Water needs no prims and neither does land. You can do a load of trees and flowers with 1000 prims. Why were the open space Sims brought up to par with full prim if not to encourage their usage?
2. If Linden Labs can tier mainland at 199 USD why not offer the same to estate owners. Don't the estate owners take the risk and pay the tier when the resident leaves?
3. Why can’t I get a 16 sim server for my Sims. Is this not a good sale. Does it not give the estate owner the ability to monitor and improve living conditions for all residents. Or to fail on his own without disrupting the lives of others ?
4. Why does Linden Lab find it so objectionable that private estates are successful? Is there a shortage of server assets ?
5. WHY INCREASE THE PRIMS AND REDUCE THE PRICE IF YOU WERE NOT ENCOURGING THE USAGE.
6. WHY ALLOW ME TO CONVERT MY WHOLE ESTATE IF YOU WERE NOT ENCOURAGING THE USAGE.
7. AND WHY NOT GRANDFATHER ? WHO'S MISTAKE WAS THIS AFTER ALL?

I would like to think this was all a mistake but I have a hard time with that thought. Personally I believe that it’s foolish on a business and personal basis. My average tier doubled when open Sims became competitive.

Danielle, Snooker, the residents and I worked hard to make the estate a great place. But management does not seem to put much weight on the happiness of the residents these days. We are a working estate, a bunch of people that get together and make the place better everyday, we love it… but no one seems to care much except us and those like us… and we don’t have much to say about what’s going on.

Only from our point of view..

The way I see it. No one forced you to convert your sims. No one forced you to move them. No one forced you to rent out open spaces. You did it all by choice. - No one forced you to type in payment info, file a ticket, or do anything you've done to this day.

There have been numerous virtual protests and calls for lawsuits against Linden Labs over the Open Space controversy however, I question how much impact these are having in their decision making. Much of LL's recent business development pursuits seems to be targeting corporate customers and having a presence in the "next big thing", using this medium as a tool to extend their brand and as an effective means to virtual collaboration. http://secondlifegrid.net/slfe/corporations-use-virtual-world Resident demographics show that most users are middle aged, highly educated with a fair amount of disposable income. AvivaUSA, a major American Life insurance company, recently announced that they have spent nearly half a million dollars setting up their virtual island.

http://www.onlyfinance.com/Life-Insurance-News/12754693-Insurer-enters-the-virtual-age.aspx


Since it appears that Linden Labs doesn't seem to be listening to their residents, perhaps they will listen to their corporate customers. In no way am I advocating any sort of griefing or violations in the SL TOS, however I am suggesting a calm, rationale and measured letter/email campaign to corporate presences in Second Life outlining why we may choose not to support their brand as a direct result of Linden Labs mismanagement of Open Spaces. We are their target market after all. Anyone care to draft a letter template we can customize and a list of potential company email addresses and fax numbers? A list of companies in SL can be found at these links:

http://www.nbhorizons.com/list.htm
http://nwn.blogs.com/nwn/2007/07/taterus-monday-.html

"I look forward to hearing from you in the Forum. Thank you for your candor, patience, restraint and willingness to work with Linden Lab and the Second Life community at large. Second Life is the wonder that it is because Linden Lab has always worked together – albeit sometimes imperfectly – with Residents to build this magnificent, bigger than life world we all love so much."

M LINDEN

We too look forward to hearing from the CEO. 1,886 posts so far and 70,000 people have read this forum and nothing from the CEO. That really does give the impression that he does not care, or has more important priorities than his customers. It's a disgrace to all of us, even those of us who are supporters of LL.

Well we certainly do agree that no one forced us to buy a 3750 prim OS with uses that were not restricted but did have advised uses. No one forced us to convert them or move them when full sim parcels b/c almost impossible to rent.

But here's the point that I think it's clear we just don't agree on and that's cool.

They are forcing me to pay 67% more for a product that IS NOT WHAT I payed for. The force is in what happened after .......

But I am certainly happy to see you finally understand the difference between moves and conversions. PROGRESS!

If you can't afford them..

A. Sell them or B. Give them back to the company.

Keep insulting me all you like it if it makes you feel better obviously you have poor self esteem.

Awww bless, you really haven't got a clue have you? Try going back to page one and reading what this 'discussion' is really all about and then maybe you'll understand.

As for "That keeps a few less people from losing the house they live in (REAL LIFE) and living on unemployment. " what about the businesses that are real here in second life? Many of us, including myself, work here full time - we don't play the "game" and pretend to be someone we aren't - and we work bloody hard, but then again it appears you have no sympathy or understanding about those who may lose their house and live on unemployment because of the changes being forced on us here - as long as the Lindens are happy right?

Without taking hours to read all of the replies, I have to ask why the prim limits on the open spaces were raised to 3750? I own an open space sim and have not been able to use all of the alloted prims. I have about 900 left, and could reduce that even more by removing the sailboats I have placed on the sim to try to use the available prims.
The original prim allotment of 1750 was more than enough for my purposes, which was to create a small island with a primitive fishing shack, add some furniture, a dock and some rocks and trees.
I feel that there is some kind of bait and switch operating here, granting more prims to allow more building, then raising tier because of the additional burden of all of the prims.
The void sims are essential to the USS group, including SLNE, which is a sailing oriented estate. I am not going to pay the additional tier to maintain a homestead. I will pick up my stuff and leave. I worry what will happen to all of the "water" if others do as I do. Who will foot the bill to keep these "water" sims open?
Just thought I would ask.

/me looks around....was I insulting. I appreciate the psych analysis. You are not only knowledgable about all matters SL but at personality analysis as well.

Wanna buy some sims? I won't force you! What do ya think? hmmm?


/me waits for the next response where she/he/it says my mom dresses me funny...

You are, I must say, a good shot in the old perspective tookus. Thanks!

Well you got a few choices as a content creator. You either absorb the 50 dollar increase or you move your business. Its really kind of simple. I don't think anyone is going to be living on the street if they lose 50 dollars more for having to pay for a single open space increase.

*Yawn*

Awwwww......

This whole new change STILL upsets me. The openspace region that I'm renting on, I'm guessing will be turned into a homestead of course. BUT I am a new business owner and using openspace has been easier on my budget until I make decent income to move to a regular region. Now with this new change, it says light commercial use, no malls, etc. I own a huge store, how is this going to affect me? I've done ALOT of building and work and haven't even had the chance to open my store, now I'm going to have to PAY more than what I can afford right now and spend another couple months rebuilding in order to open? Honestly, there should have been a warning a while back ago so I could have been more prepared. Seriously does LL have to charge SO MUCH for VIRTUAL LAND. I'm really not happen about this new change as it now seems I have to invest more money and time where I simply just CAN'T.

Your solution is simple. Rent (or buy) an equivalent plot on a full sim like most businesses do. A 16k plot (quarter sim) will be perfect for you and will probably cost you less than you're paying now.

You should be fine with the store as you have it for now, no need to rebuild as all the prims stay the same when it changes to a homestead sim, A big store would be fine, just you could only have 20 people visiting at once, later on you might need to adjust the scripts you are using in your vendors to make sure they are all properly optimized to fit within the script limits, but a properly done vendor uses very little script time at all.

Well to be fair a store with 20 people visiting at once who aren't bots or campers should be doing enough trade to afford more than an openspace That's a lot of customers!

This is a very, very good suggestion.

Let the next client have a maximum prim size of 256x256 or 128x128 and that would indeed help, slightly.

-Atashi

What prims are they reducung on homestead os....? None... they are reducing on the true open spaces that i dont think they want building on anyway...shrugs


if they increased prim sizes on homesteads that would totally kill the full sims.....

i have no interest one way or the other...just thinking of the angles...

From where I come, it is there rude and unpolite to not show up after invitiation of folks for a talk or discussion. The people here will notice that and they will store it in their minds and they will know what is to think about the fact, that the talk here found no adaequate resonance by the hosts M and J for about now 48 hours along all global time-zones. Just wanted to deposit that.