Open Spaces Announcement & Talk with M and Jack Linden

Seconded.

Ok, I've about heard enough of this. 1) the open spaces drove a HUGE section of business out of SL by God going in competition with real estate business by making empty lots. The only choice left to the land business was to lease out open spaces. 2) the amount that LL proposes to charge for the ABSOLUTELY predictable and unimpeded (allowed to be established) "misuse" of open spaces is PRECISELY the going rate for lease that the market established by taking its ownn risk. Now LL wants to come in and remove THAT profit from them.

OK, now LL has problems which effect IT, and not the users any longer, because they were "kind enough" to (why not?) allow users to own open spaces like Gov Linden (who are you kidding?). What is missong from all this is ANY accept of blame for this mess from LL. Instead, they throw all of you under the bus once again. It's YOUR fault for reacting in an utterly predictable manner to a wipe out of your business.

The only thing I find odd in this entire debacle is the complete and total lack of common sense in LL's ability to predict the normal social reactions and behavior of every day people. What did they think was going to happen? This Disney World psuedo-utopian ideal that people would somehow NOT use the open spaces to replace that which was unnaturally interrupted in the economy by going into competition with its paying customers is really going too far.

Ok Mickey, Goofy, and Minnnie, it's time to stand up and take responsibility. YOU screwed up. WE did what was utterly predictable by anyone normally socialized. Now you wantt to take back your mistake. And heck, why not even turn it into another profit and cut out the business you tried to cut out in the first place, but which found another way to survive? I don't want "constructive input", and I think few enough buy that this "compromise" was not already planned after you put us through the predictable outcry. What I want is some truth, and some accepted blame for a really, really stupid economic move. Because you're about to make another one.

The last memo from the last Linden before they shut off the power at LL will read, "hey, it wasn't our fault, it was the stupid customers".

well, may be light use is intended for beauty or just for saving hardware resources.
if for beauty, this beauty may not be seen by many people as it is extreme light use, i.e. not many people may visit concomittantly, so - - - what is it good for, cause you are not supposed to be to live in whatever living in SL means - - -
it is good for nothing except paying tier and make SL a little more beautiful with 750 prims LMAO. consequence? Opendingie is not attractive and will be recycled/abandoned once Opendingie 'owners' realize that 750 prims is nothing and that they are not allowed to 'live' (what living is: yet to be defined) in their Opendingie, but of course they have the option to make it a Homedingie with some vague light use yet to be defined.
I suggest to all Opendingie owners to replace their trees with ad signs, you can right click and touch, get a notecard and TP directly to a place where you will get freebies (and of course buy some things too), charge the owners of the shops you promote some L$ per sign per week, buy yourself a small parcel to 'live' and feel free to leave the game at any time. Of course, you need to be tricky enough to route your allowed 10 avis to your 'opendingie' with some bait, could be a private changing cubicle for noobs and of course, you need to be top on the search list, so consider to select some relevant key words like 'free' 'sex' 'male' 'female' 'avatar' 'shape' 'skin' 'roleplay' 'garden' 'palm' 'beach' 'Linden' or something like that

[Irony mode off]

serious: it is such a shame to watch the steady decline of fantasy, inspiration, talent, creativity in this game - other VWs are still far behind you, LL, you are the pioneer many of your customers are addicted to with different motives (e.g. business, fun, beauty, creativity), but if you are not able to make a U turn ASAP, I am not very confident for your future.

So Katt, M, Jack and all of you with no alarm clocks, set them to wake up or your residents will take some snapshots of their SL 'lives' to auction them at ebay. may be there will be a hype for these snaps in 30 years.

p.s. is it just a coincidence that you try to improve first hour experience while you try to cast out your current user base or is this your master plan just to attract new people to pixels again, exploit them until they quit and find other naive noobs again?

disclaimer: this post does not contain forward looking statements and forgive me my typos. Best regards, Pantaiptuih: 81% out

Without naming names or advertising anything else, it is true that LL used to be the only game in town so they could get away with charging these exorbitant prices. However, they are now NOT the only game in town. Evidently they are blind to this fact by continuing to rape the player base who actually owns land.

I understand that LL has become this mega corporation and they are worried about their bottom line which is why they won't budge on their decision (just delay the inevitable). However, I have come to understand this by being in SL and talking with friends who own full sims that rent out parcels. It is hugely advantageous to be able to rent a LOT of small places for a shorter term than forcing people to commit to a more investment heavy rent that can last for months.

this business model works for a lot of people. I do understand that you have infrastructure to deal with and servers to maintain. However the costs of the monthly maintenance fees do not equate to what you actually have to do to maintain the servers. They are grossly overinflated. the cost of memory, and other hardware is not that much. I realize you have an overhead for employees that need to be paid and have raises every year which is the only thing I can think of to justify the raise in price. IMHO it was poor economic planning on LL part. Surely they should have had the foresight for this.

I know I'm not an old timer like a lot of people here. Just calling it as I see it.

Doh.

Well exactly!

I guess if it moves it's a vehicle

However, there is not the resources for them to be this picky on an individual basis. Besides, people will get round the 750 prim limit with temp rezzers and the like then moan about performance/get slapped. Who knows. Someone will find a dodge as usual.

To my best knowledge a temp rezzer doesn't drain prims from the plot, but they do from the simulator. I guess most OSS aren't split up so those things wouldn't work. Splitting OSS should be prohibited anyway if you ask me

Exactly. Not good for any other OS on the same server one presumes.

I always remember the conversation I had with a Linden ... thinking about it, it was Ethan actually - where the plot wasn't working very well at all on mainland. I'd just bought it and there was a temp-rezzed 350-or-so prim for sale sign on a 512. I asked if that was the reason why the plot wasn't working and got the reply "You shouldn't use a temp rezzer we don't recommend them."

Helpful

I own a mainland parcel of 4608m2 with 1054 prims. I suffer through griefers,
horrible ads, lag, bad neighbors (or should I say neighboors? ), mercenary
land barons and 16m2 parcels and tons of other bad stuff... but you know what?
I will still have a better "product" than the new openspaces... and for 1/3 the tier.
Given how horribly messed up Mainland is... that is saying a LOT, and it it NOT
positive. Every single resident should be protesting these changes. They will
only lead to further nastiness down the road. You may think you're unaffected
and you would be wrong... everyone will be affected, maybe not now, but most
certainly in the future. I would call this change a "butterfly effect" if it accurately
described the scope of this idiocy... maybe "Mothra effect" is more appropriate?

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”
Edmund Burke

Please protest...

Yes temp rezzers create a massive load, I didn't say they didn't. I said they are useless if the plot is the entire sim since the sim can hold only 750 prims..or 3750..or 15000... That doesn't mean people won't be stupid enough to drop them anyway, so you might be right haha

*edit* I didn't only mean drain from the simulator performancewise, also primwise

It's not idiocy, it's green, they're too busy with their head up investors butts to worry about their other investors. While one group provides the infrastructure, the other group is providing the content to them, without the customers MASSIVE TIME investment into SL, it would be nothing, but somehow they have convinced people that they do not matter, and they are not important, only the final profit margin and infrastructure investors count.

Guys, you are funny.
I totally understand that nearly all OS owner are pissed off about the first post to raise the prices to 66% within 60 days. You complained and LL listen to it - they gives a kind of agreement, raise the prices less in January 2009 and gives a new plan and a new product. And it's more obviously that LL thinks over, whats the best way for LL, the Community and the products they offer.

But hey, LL is far away from a garage company like 2003, they have now 200+ employees, investors and a hierarchic structure. So they have to discuss all the things that happens. A good arbitration needs time. First you say they raise the prices without asking the community and then you force them to do a hot shot arbitration? You can't be serious.

As first you have time till January - and till january you can use the OS however you want. After that you have to decide if you want a OS or a homestead...

BUT!
Till january there are more then 50 days for a new agreement from LL and also 50 more days to discuss it. I'm sure that LL feels what they have done, first month with decrease in SIMs (I'm sure 90% are OS).

Fact is that LL want earn money and with loosing SIMs and customers they won't earn it. I'm also sure that LL learned that they did wrong with that drastically changes. But we should calm down, drink some tea, give LL enough time to read more then 1750 replys.

And the most important point: don't fight against each other, some of the posters here acts like kids from the playschool. The best way to get a reaction we want is to be factual and constructive. All other posts, fullquotes, reply one post 6 times shouldn't be.

I'm not siding with LL, but I run my own RL business with employees and i know how hard it is to keep customers happy and also make the right determinations. This includes also some meetings with some of my employees and this needs time in a company. I really understand both parts; from the users and from LL. LL did some things wrong, now and in the past, but I'm sure that also the users did something wrong.

This is not a judgement so don't start a flamewar. Back to the roots, factual and constructive, this will bring the best results for all.

Sorry, I forgot one simple consideration about how to enforce by LL the no-living rule on 750 prims sim....

At that price with such a low number of prims allowed, there will be so few of them that it will be very easy and quick to check them all...

I went OS cos what I wanted most of all was landscape. I was on a 1/4 sim of mainland, with a MASSIVE box walling me in with fake views to blot out the grot. I missed the day/night cycle. When I realised I could have unimpeded views for not much less money I went for it. I loved terraforming. I loved landscaping. I loved looking out into the sunset and watching the light "dancing on the water".

However don't get too comfy with your relative bargain. Q1 of 2009 sees OS repricing. Mainland tier hike is due not long after (long overdue really since they haven't changed in years).

Face facts, using SL is quite likely to cost people more money for less pleasure. It would be some rabbit to pull out of a hat to make things more enticing right now.

Ironic as your comment may be (as much as it is true about enforcing, i have to agree), less OSS with all their issues make the load on the systems and employees a lot less.

That used to be true but it changed some months ago. Now temporary prims are aren't counted with the simulator's prims.

CRAP CHANGE IT BACK LL

The exact butterfly effect I was talking about, it's why,
despite not owning OS land,I want people to protest this change.

First, thank you LL for acknowledging the concerns of the residents and working toward a resolution in a constructive manner. It is clear that suggestions and complaints have not fallen on deaf ears, and I for one appreciate the dialog and urge LL to continue to work toward a resolution that is equitable not only for the business, but to the residents as well.

Setting the OpenSpaces at 750 prims and $75 a month is a great compromise that will ensure those areas are used for what was intended -- true open spaces with minimal landscaping.

The Homestead product at $95 a month for 3,750 prims and an agent limit also is a good idea. It's the price increase in July to $125 for the same product that I question. Essentially, the January price increase was simply moved back six months, with no additional benefit to the residents. I don't begrudge LL making money; fatter coffers would utimately benefit the residents inworld with better performance and more services.

I do think however, that should the price go up to the $125 level, something else needs to be offered to justify that increase. Let residents buy Homesteads without owning a Private Island first or increase the prims on the Homesteads to 5,000, with the same agent limits. There is obviously a market for a mid-range product -- one that could be quite lucrative for LL.

Thank you for your time!
Serina Juran

Much as I empathise, they are within their right to raise prices when they have been held down so long.

Other places are cheaper but don't yet give the experience.

A conversation is two-way. We've had a few posts from Jack, a few posts from Katt (as a mod, innocent in this situation) and nothing from M at all.

You know what could put all of this 118 page train wreck to an end?

A quick post from M, saying "Hey guys, we understand that this solution isn't considered ideal, give me a week to chat with the tech team/billing/whatever, I'll get some people to read through this thread and give us a summary of what you feel are the most important points, and we'll get back to you" would do a lot of good.

So far, all we're getting is silence. I don't for one minute buy the "but it's early in California" because when you have an issue this important, that has caused so much negative press for the company, and bad feeling amongst the users of its product, normal working hours go straight out the window.

This is crisis. We need statements. We need answers. Whilst there's still a community here.

... unless, as we suspect, they were overinflated in the first place.

When you buy website hosting from a company (which is basically what we're doing with SL), you aren't expected to pay 'up front' for the server, and have no right of ownership over it at all.

Everyone knows that any product you buy, the bigger your order the better the discount. You'd have thought that with LL buying servers by the boxload and bandwidth by the petabyte, as the grid got bigger their 'per person' costs would have gone down, not up.

If costs go up, yes, but hardware costs go down over time, not up. Personel costs go up, of course.

Ah but if they were overpriced in the first place and deemed to be acceptable at that price (which they were, people partook) ...

A company has the right to change prices, that can't be blocked. Customers have the right to vote with their feet. What isn't on is disinformation and then blaming your user base for going with what you've implied and then changing the rules on the fly whilst trying to smell of roses. However, that's news to no-one lol.

SL is already what I would refer to as overpriced.

Their costs are dropping, not rising. Servers are cheaper, hosting cheaper,
memory cheaper, bandwidth cheaper... what costs are rising to justify
greater prices? Staplers? Paperclips? I understand the *desire* for them
to make more money, it's the the lack of proper justification for them to
make more that annoys me.

They should be looking at ways to reduce their costs to increase margin
instead of blindly going for pure money grabs which this latest change
basically translates to. Sims should have had hard script limits from the
start. Textures should have had hard resolution and size limits from the
start.

TBH, appropriate hard limits on performance is the right way to go. It
reduces their bandwidth costs and reduces asset server load. They need
to fix the viewer bugs causing DOS issues with the asset server. Raising
the price addresses none of their problems. Only applying proper limits
does. Additionally, adding proper limits encourages proper scripting,
texturing and building techniques, perhaps even spurring on an industry
of builders, scripters and artists who can "create within the limits" with
high quality.

They are attacking a simple problem with a nuclear bomb. Apply
reasonable limits, don't change prices.