Open Spaces Announcement & Talk with M and Jack Linden

well i was thinking of projecting their own mouth running on me...the anger is displaced for sure... but its all good...i understand people are upset and like to just shoot from the hip... im guilty of it too on occassion....much less in the last year or so

Why did you decide to die second life?
you are not stupid and know well that people are slowly migrating to other realities. Have you lost about 3,000 people in three days and you know full well that they lose many more, and that after holding the real will not see your most interesting platform .... and why is this political suicide? We may not have understood or not we believe .... spiegatelo and do not say that does not happen because our migration process is already underway ....

bye

Or is there more discussion and thought going on at LL about this issue?

I view the homestead sim as an alternative to a quarter sim on the mainland for use as a personal residence. You get the same number of prims but with more space. I might consider keeping mine at an additional $20 a month but not $50. The $125 price is a deal breaker for me and I suspect most of us who are probably your target market, someone who wants a place off of the mainland to tinker with and call home. If that price is the final price then I will be abandoning the sim.

I would also suggest you talk to the current people using openspace sims as you say they were originally intended as well as look at your own Nautilus builds to see what a reasonable set of limits for those would be. A good set of limits would benefit all of us, providing us with common areas for public use, the original intent of the voids.

Finally, it is apparent to me the intention of these price changes is to limit the commercial use of these sims. If that is the case, be upfront about it and offer an exit strategy to those who have invested in them. There are people who acted in good faith based on information that was at best vague, to abandon them would hurt the community as a whole.

I am not personally affected by this decision except for on the one OS sim I call home but anything that diminishes the community, diminishes me.

LOL - hilarious tribute to "a place for our stuff." (thanks, George Carlin–RIP)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLoge6QzcGY

Second life is pretty bloody cool, and nobody has done a 3d VR that's even vaguely as cool, except people who are cloning second life.

We, the people, wouldn't have been able to do all the cool stuff we do IN second life, if second life wasn't cool.

But other cool stuff that LL has done since I've been here. Some of it I don't actually *like*, but that doesn't mean I can't see how it's *cool* and *shiny* and all full of Kiki-the-ferret poingability:

Lindex (yes, really, compared to using the goldfarming companies)
Point to point teleporting.
Fast teleporting.
llTeleportAgent (too bad they pulled it before it even got into beta)
Islands (estates)
Runitais lovely (and now lamented) depth-sensitive water.
Windlight (even if it trashed Runitai's water)
Sculpted prims
Flexible prims
Openspaces (yes, they've blundered a bunch, but we wouldn't be having this debate if they weren't cool)
Shadows (forthcoming)
Mono
Havok 4

What's ActiveWorlds and There.COM added over the past three years? Anyone know? Anyone CARE?

Agreed.

Welcome to the 3rd Rock Grid
your account has been activated.
We welcome you to our community and trust that together we will grow.

It's Your Life - Live it!

3xRegion - 3x (45,000) Prim Region - 65536sq.m.
$25.00 initial purchase Plus 1st month tier of $65.00
Then each following month just $65.00 per month.

2xRegion - 2x (30,000) Prim Region - 65536sq.m.
$25.00 initial purchase Plus 1st month tier of $55.00
Then each following month just $55.00 per month.

1xRegion - 1x (15,000) Prim Region - 65536sq.m.
$25.00 initial purchase Plus 1st month tier of $45.00
Then each following month just $45.00 per month.

.5xRegion - 1/2 (7,500) Prim Region - 65536sq.m.
$25.00 initial purchase Plus 1st month tier of $25.00
Then each following month just $25.00 per month.

.25xRegion - 1/4 (3,750) Prim Region - 65536sq.m.
$25.00 initial purchase Plus 1st month tier of $16.00
Then each following month just $16.00 per month.

WaterRegion - Water Only - 1000 Prim Region - 65536sq.m.
$10.00 initial purchase Plus 1st month tier of $9.00
Then each following month just $9.00 per month.


These Prices effective: 8/22/2008


Kind Regards,-Butch Arnold


tyvm Wildcat Furse xxx

I find the less I care here the lighter of heart I feel. Hmmm.

Jack, are you serious? FILE A SUPPORT TICKET?

That's funny.

/me looks in relative satisfaction at Cherry a la OLG. She nearly looks like this Cherry now.

And yes she is wearing clothes Ciaran, before you ask.

lmao!! since when did personal attacks create any support or validation for point of view?? grow t.f. up.

homesteads were created and defined becauese of the abuses of people who were renting these out. whether you think they should or not, it was still against the rules. i assure you, the lack of intelligence comments are not coming from my direction. homesteads cost more than openspaces thats a fact. I SAID people renting open spaces now will EITHER get evicted OR their prices will go up, obviously M has changed the policy, perhaps you read the blog?? if their prices dont go up its probably because the landlord is eating the cost. I believe that will be a rare event, but im not arguing that it will or will not happen, im warning the renters, you betta know where your living and know the rules before you live there!

at least im honest with people and not lying to the renters telling them, oh cheap land, come live here!

my sister is losing her castle because she had no idea she was renting on an open space. i assure you i am not a LL fan-boy. btw im a girl. AM-I-LIE! THINK before you comment.

lmao! relax!!!!!

I agree Zabelin. Why on earth can't they just go for a less invasive approach? Ok, so the original problem as they claim is that openspace sims are causing a drain on the grid. So rather than setting the world on fire by pricing the whole of society out of them just impose some reasonable limitations on the current product?

Obviously. I don't even really consider them as a separate "thing" from Second Life, any more than I consider Linux a separate "thing" from UNIX.

well maybe you shouldnt call people dim as a brick then? huh?

I am not speaking to Open Life here b/c I trust them but.... with all this exodus to open sim grids i'd implore you all to realize that many of these not all ...are run by people that despite possibly putting a LLC on it are not reputable... ask questions, ask who is running it, get real names... Pay Pal, as far as I know, and maybe some cc companies wont step in where virtual products are concerned. so while open sim is great in the future, dont get hosed ....


My 2L (goes and catches her mouth- it was running maybe?? lol....ohm....ohm)

Oh Please

Jack, old bean, could you PLEASE define what "living in" means.

Obvious this person is turning abusive and is disrupting the whole discourse of idea exchanges here - I request she either be warned about her verbage or her posts be removed - thanks

you just didn't!! lol.. you apppear to have clicked ignore on yourself or feel exempt from your own personal attack rule.... amusing..... col

As a new user to SL still finding his feet and 1st time poster in the forums, I have to say I am amazed at the lack of customer service from Linden Labs + the naivity of those who stump up $250 dollars set up fees with out any form of protection or black & white rules on what they are getting for their money.

As a first impression to SL this truely sucks and unless whole sale changes are made by LL there is no way on earth I would "buy" land off them.

From this moment on LL need to offer fixed term contracts of either 6 months or 12 months for any land sale, otherwise people should not do business with them any more in my mind.

Also off topic can any one point me in the right direction of why as I none US citzen I cant buy L$'s direct from LL and have to go via middle men?

"G"

Yet again, I will point out that 3rd rock grid (and OLG) are *OpenSim* grids

they may show 45k prims on a region, but the region dies at about 5k

there is significant work left to be done wrt to scripting and physics

hell there is significant work to be done everywhere wrt opensim.

anyone advertising SL functionality on an opensim platform is lying and cheating harder than Linden Labs, and that is saying a mouthfull.

If you want to explore opensim, it's free

download the software at opensimulator.org

set up your own standalone (private garden region)
connect to an existing grid (osgrid.org will let you connect regions running on your hardware for free) and there are over 500 regions now

if you want to pay someone to set it up and operate it for you, thats fine.

But dont believe anyone who promises the same level of functionality and reliability as Linden Labs.

Lazarus Longstaff
OpenSim Tester from Hell
OSGrid Admin

thxxx laza, interesting information, I'll check it further

enough with the personal attacks and harrassing comments back and forth all of you. thanks!

lol after reading some of your posts, I think you deserve to be called more than that lol retarded

Seconded. Too much spam in here!!

Read Dianne's post history too, though.

it was never against any rules to rent out openspaces nor was it against any rules to build a house homested or any other form of living quarters. light use is such a open term and wildy speculated depending on who you ask..


A light use sim could be a small house nestled inside a mountain top with forrest all around that just 2 people use.

Whats heavy use.
well a mall for one. clubs.
anything where the population on the sim exceeds 10.


Now your not allowed to live on open sims... what exactly does that mean.... what if me and my 9 friends just hang out there all day long shooting around on our heavily scripted boats and wearing 10000 attachments ... is that less abuse then the house in the mountain top or is the house the pure evil thing.

The whole thing is large festering pile of steamy cr...well you get the point.

As I see it, you upped the prim limit and allowed people to place OS's away from other regions. You still said they were meant for parks and waterways, but you also clearly said that issues caused by any other kind of use would not be supported. That is nowhere near the same as telling people they can't use them for anything else, it is in fact saying "Use them for what ever you like, just don't cry to us if it lags". This for me, was a risk I would be willing to take, as were so many others.

Suddenly thousands of people for the first time could see a way to afford some space for their dream projects, or a place to build their own virtual environment to enjoy with out the fear of their vision being ruined by a neighbors eyesore. I was among those people and was just about to start renting one myself before the first price change announcement was made. I had hoped to use it for my own light commercial needs, keeping avatar limits restricted and script time as low as I possibly could. And I was looking forward to it too! The only drawback for me was the fact that I would be renting from a middleman as I simply could not come close to affording a full sim.

If there is one thing that's clear from the number of people that were willing to rent whole open sims from middlemen (at profit to said middlemen) there is a huge market out there for a good in-between private land option. $1000 USD upfront and $295 a month (+VAT in my case) is just too big a financial risk for so many people.

At $295 a month my biggest fear would be getting established in time before being hit by the next monthly fee. If things didn't go well, how long would it be before I'd have to call it a day and try to get out asap with a minimised loss? I'm sure there are many that look at their virtual land as a luxury they can afford to run at a loss. This may bring wonderful areas for enjoyment and send tier money your way, but does little for the SL economy itself. No doubt the majority of people considering an investment in this risky business are hoping to at least break even. How many tier fees are you not receiving from people like me that just don't have an affordable option without the even riskier business of getting less land at higher cost through middlemen with unpredictable landlords, neighbors, surroundings and problems?

I have my fingers firmly crossed that someone at LL will realise just how many half price, half prim, half av/script limit sims you would sell to those of us who so badly want to make a proper start in this wonderful virtual world but can't afford to take that $1000 step. I can sort of understand why you only sell openspaces to people who already own a full size sim, you were no doubt worried that many people would probably go straight for an openspace rather than the full sim you would prefer they buy, but surely their massive popularity has shown there is room for an in-between that could be made available to all?

If there was a sim available that I could rent directly from LL with half of everything a full sim has for a little more than half the cost, I would buy one tomorrow (despite the sleepless nights it would no doubt cause me through worry that you might up the tiers at any moment!). I wonder how many others would do the same.

As for this latest announcement? I echo the opinions of many others. Those that used their spaces as you say you intended will be paying the same price for many less prims and heavy restrictions. Those who you claim abused their open spaces will be paying much more for the same product but with more restrictions. To top it all off, the price structure this creates for your 3 private land types just doesn't seem to make any sense. Did anyone at the labs really think this would go down well?

I hope this is still open to change and thank you for reading our opinions (if you made it this far through my post )

Tryp