Open Spaces Announcement & Talk with M and Jack Linden

Another day has come and gone in England, and Jack has punched out for the day. And, we already know that M does not post here.

Sorry, Dianne, et. al., but we need to accept there is no human element at LL. And, from all appearances, as you have said [and this might be a paraphrase so forgive me if I have it wrong], little to no intelligence at the management level.

Maybe LL management are AI avatars trying to be human? SL creations catching up to RL?

Ellen I do have some sympathy for your view because for months I was making points about the damage Openspaces were doing to the private sim rental market. However Linden Lab just kept selling them and it was a "Nudge nudge wink wink" issue. They ignored the so called light use because they were selling so well.

Some people are claiming they asked Linden's if it was ok to have a home on an Openspace and were told yes.

As you point out full sim owners were complaining and Linden Lab turned a blind eye, so some full sim owners converted those struggling full sims into Openspaces, at a cost, because that's where the market was, a market that Linden Lab were encouraging the growth of.

I'm sorry but Linden Lab knew how these sims were being used. Blaming those who jumped onto the bandwagon is wrong because the complaints were made and Linden Lab just carried on selling. If anyone has been greedy on this issue it is Linden Lab and they should be taking full responsibility.

I'm not sure I agree with you on this.

LL seems to have 2 classes of problems - Technical and Customer Relations. Other companies may also have similar technical problems (although I think LL is well below the 90 percentile technically) but LL seems to have a pretty hostile attitude WRT customer relations. It wouldn't be too difficult for a company with a better corporate culture to avoid a lot of the self inflicted wounds LL has come up with.

I was wondering exactly how you guys will be limiting scripts. Will there be an announcement explaining how or a JIRA article about it?

Well at last there's a little bit of honesty coming forth. That's one step in the right direction, now how about that apology you owe us?

All that has been posted here..the questions that have been asked and thats the crap you post
RESIGN..now..give it up!..

You are am embarassment at this point to Linden Labs

Reading that logged conversation you should have about crawled under your chair knowing full well that people would be reading it and realizing that someone had the real goods on what you were telling people at the time they were purchasing these OS!

SHAME ON YOU! -

I may be late to the party on this, and I'm sure 3rd Rock is a fine organization, but it is just another OpenSim Grid, and as such, cannot offer you anything significantly more feature-rich than any other OpenSim grid.

IMHO, anyone who is charging a fee for land OpenSim-based grids isn't precisely dealing from the top of the deck.

Just my 0.02$L

Lazarus Longstaff
OpenSim Tester from Hell
OSGrid Admin

Its obvious you can't read before you run your mouth. From the knowledge base. Your question is answered right here. TRY READING EVERYTHING THAT WAS POSTED IN THE KNOWLEDGE BASE AND THE ARTICLE BEFORE YOU START WHINING. ITS CLEARLY POSTED THERE..


https://support.secondlife.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=4417&task=knowledge&questionID=5650


What is the policy around migrating from Openspaces to a Full Region?

You may convert your Openspaces to a full Region. Four Openspaces equate to one Region, and we are not charging a conversion fee, at least until the pricing change comes into effect in January 09. If you own less than four Openspaces, you can make up the difference at a cost of USD$250 per Openspace.

For example: If you own 2 Openspaces, you can covert to a full Region at the cost of the two Openspaces + USD$500. The current monthly fee for a Full Region will then apply.

And there it is folks. Everyone of us who have a house on an Openspace move the higher costing Homestead. This is what they said originally. There are no more grey areas. If you live on it, you pay more. No questions. Defend that people who say that they don't mean me.

There is no human element - and from what I just read posted from Jack I'd have to say he must be an avatar with script errors!

**, if you think i was talking about YOU, you are the one who is dim as a brick. No this isnt a rumor, this is a fact. It is happening as sure as i read all the posts of people who are willing to leave second life or abandon or sell their open sims in protest. where does that leave the renters? um.. i already said!

thank you for eating the cost, because you are the one who broke the rule, so you can blame LL or yourself, but dont blame me, im not the one who caused this mess, in fact i dont even own land right now. weirdo.

No more fresh money in.

Nuff said.

Amilie, please THINK before you post...

If Openspaces were not intended for rentals, then WHAT are 'Homesteads' ?!!! Wake up!

If you seriously think that users could buy and use Openspaces on large-scale without putting up rentals on them to help (if not fully) pay the tier, then it just shows what a nut you are. There may be a few users that can do that but its hardly the type of usage that LL would release them for in the first place (ie They KNEW there would be light rentals). I personally have 3 OS's without ANY renters on them ... but I was thinking of a light rental on 1 or 2 to help cover their tiers ... so much for that. And now I need to pay 67% more on them! ... and PLS don't get clever and say i can convert to a 750 prim OS ... WTF must i do with 750 prims?! ... thats only good for flat-land or flat-water really (in which case rather just look out over the default LL water) - to make anything realistically landscaped with something interesting needs WAY more than 750 prims.

You're either a wind-up, or a LL fan-boy. In either case, the day will come LL will do this to you ... save your intelligent comments for then.

If the sim is one big parcel, just look at About Land. If the number of prims used is more than 750 you either need to get it down to under 750 or start thinking about the 67% increase in montly cost.

If it's more than one parcel, you'll need to add them up or do a support ticket. I have a conceirge friend who finally got a support ticket question answered after only 6 months, although it was closed by LL, without reply, after 4 months.. Hopefully, they will be able to turn these tickets around a little quicker.

Dude, they put building tools in a non-mandatory viewer release, which means if you updated, yay you have awesome new building tools and if you never updated, boo you don't get to see anything made with the viewing tools. <-- all of that, is retarded.

So if they don't realize that they should make the updates that change the build tool mandatory, I can't honestly believe there are people there who knew from day one how the sims are being used.

I'm pretty sure they don't even play Second Life.

Holy mackeral! Two days and 89 pages? I'm glad I'm not an OS owner. My L$2: This new plan sounds as reasonable as it's going to get. LL wants to hike prices; they've made that much clear. I know the prim limit sort of stinks; I'd have liked it to go back up to the original 1750 or whatever it was back in the beginning. But meh, 750 pretty much forces these sims to remain "Open Spaces" for reals.

BTW: M Linden: "co-habitate" is not a word. "Habitate" is not a word. Try "inhabit" next time.

Wow. Well I will not reply with the disrepect you've shown me. But I'd like to point out to you that I was not talking about conversions. A move of an OS isnt a conversion. But I certainly am happy to be your punching bag. Good luck with it on the next guy.

I assume you're talking about Nurien, Blue Mars, etc. as opposed to the Open Sim based virtural worlds. Since all of those that I've looked at - the user owns the content.

Firelight

I just reread your attempt at anger and insult. Have to tell you guys that zen really does work to drown out yutz's like this. Just sort of shows how allowing some people to own sims just was a baaaaad idea. LOL They don't really get the nuance between moving open spaces BACK TO THE FULL SIM WHERE I HAD IT and a conversion*. But wow...i did chuckle at the run mouth thing. Sorta like projection. Isn't that the psych term? That's what this forum is good for....probably the only thing.

*edit b/c i guess i ran my mouth before i proofread my post calling attention to you not really reading mine and/or not understand some very basic and obvious differences

LOL I know. Personally I'd have a VW - does what it says, works, is reliable, not too flash, not too shabby, dependable ...

For the record folks, still talking analogies here. It's not turned into Top Gear.

More like "cohabit" or "coexist"

Displacement the term you were looking for?

How exactly can you justify what is an openspace or a homstead when the details are sketchy at best, there have been no refferences to how many regions will be on a core, how many scripts will be alowed on each region the only thing that you can determin this by is how may prims there are and if its a TREE or a HOUSE, either that or you do actually know what the plan is and have failed to inform the community of this?
And to base the above on prim counts and if its a tree or house is just crazy.
I would like to give a little tip for future refference, before going to drop a bombshell on the community like this in the future at least give figures it might be a tad easier on your part to fight your corner with

i originally posted and was quoted
"Originally Posted by Amilie Anatine
I just want to try to ease your worries on this. Opensims were originally created and intended for light use. if you are using this for light use then there will be no changes. if you have been using it as a full sim, or as a large rental business or mall, then you have been taking much more than you should, and paying much less than a regular sim.

so, if you use opensim as it was intended, light use, the price will not go up for you, but as M said, you need to contact concierge to keep your bill in this category."




you are right Ciaran, i only discovered this after i posted that. omg i was floored when i saw the new knowledgebase article (which isnt articulated in Ms lenghty cornfield of a blogpost 750 prims and thats it. however, that resident i responded to should know that there are limitations to the openspace she is using, and one of those is NO LIVING ON IT as in NO HOUSES.. perhaps she can use it as a sandbox or a big park or have a boat and float, thats ok, but in the end, shes gotta clear it with LL, and yes, this whole policy really stinks becuase its less prims than before. 750 prims - lets see, a large yacht is probably 300 prims, how about lawnchairs, tables, tikihuts. better get some rezzing flowers. no fish allowed. peeps you are far better off renting a cute skybox on 512 and playing on someone elses land lol.

people, LL has just made it more attractive for you to rent normal parcels from normal sims.

i am not paying tier right now nor am i "investing" in any property with any kind of assumption for a return. this is just not rl or rl property, the rules are so up in the air with LL, i wouldnt be surprised if they pulled the lindens from circulation.

He just admitted, again, that after offering people in March 3750 prims at $75, people who paid a setup fee for x service will now end up with y service with less benefit or higher cost. Admitting openly that one should not trust anything they say for more than a month after they say it. Paying $250 or $1000 for a sim you can count on for no more than 1 month is insipid, and I doubt seriously LL will be a viable business once that fact becomes common knowledge.

Literally, it seems to be their belief that they could offer us 45,000 prims at $25 a month today with a $2k setup fee, and then a month later make it 500 prims at $100, and dare us to leave and lose our $2k. If that is the case, how can anyone do business with these people? I devoutly believe that that violates the spirit if not the letter of trade regulations set forth to protect us from such, and I hope LL gets a count charged against them for every single openspace they sold between March and November.

In the meantime, I feel it is our duty to let everyone we know that LL does not feel they are required to honor their marketing more than a token span of time. No one shoudl be caught unawares with changes like this after paying hundreds of dollars for a service. If nothing else, we can make people aware via the press, word of mouth, inworld, however possible.