Open Spaces Announcement & Talk with M and Jack Linden
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Tracy Rubble
Registered User
Join date: 7 Nov 2007
Posts: 26
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11-06-2008 01:50
From: Courgan Barzane I did stop ready hundereds of pages with comments, I think, most is said anyways and apart from some Lindens undercover (always remarkable in that role: Snowflake Fairymeadow), no one will fall for that "improvements".
But aside from "compromises", new ideas and other talking, there is a single fact untouched:
Linden and me made a contract, they sold me a sim with 3750 usable prims for 250 USD + VAT and a monthly fee of 75 USD + VAT, which is really costly anyways, compared to other hosting opportunities.
And you, Lindens, really believe you can change that mutual contract onesided in your favor and raise not only the monthly fee ridiculously, but even invent more and further limitations? Don't bore me with your TOS or similar, this will not stand the test of a court.
But that you will find out very soon, I think... I'm not overly aware of US law, but in the UK there is an unfair terms in consumer contracts law... the TOS is a consumer contract basically. Therefore, if your personal contract is the above, it stands at least by UK law... even if LL states "we can change these at any time with x amount of notice" if the courts feel it is an unfair term then its null and void. |
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Bell Teardrop
Registered User
Join date: 30 Aug 2008
Posts: 4
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11-06-2008 01:52
Ok I am a bit confused here...you said "What is the price point for the new Homestead product? Homesteads will enter the market on January 5th at USD$95 per month each, with a setup fee of USD$375. The monthly charge will move to $125 in July 2009. Regular Region and Openspace setup fees remain the same." Some Questions I have on the statment are: Why is there a set up fee when this is something that you are forcing those of us who have an open space to convert? Does everyone pay this set up fee? Is there a grace period for the conversion of open space to homestead where the set up fee does not have to be paid or is it, that's it, you own an open space and you either convert and pay the set up fee or you reduce your open space to the new requirements? I understand all to well about the CPU issues. I also understand all too well about the current economic problems that many people around the world are facing right now. I know for myself, with these new implimentations, I will probaby have only once choice when these new rules and regs are implimented...I will probably have to sell my open space and become homeless here in SL and I wonder what fun there will be in that. Please know I'm not trying to flame or harass anyone just stating the facts from my end. From: Katt Linden [Read the new announcement and talk it over here, thanks!]
A Letter to Second Life Residents
M Linden here. Many thanks to everyone who responded constructively with their concerns and suggestions about our Openspaces announcement. We’ve listened carefully and your feedback has led to some amendments to our original plan.
Before I jump to the policy amendments, I’d like to provide some insight into our decision and then recap what we’ve heard from you. When the Openspaces product was originally launched, Linden Lab offered Island owners the opportunity to add Openspaces to their land for light use only –- such as ocean or park land. But we didn’t build in and enforce specific, quantifiable performance limits on the Openspaces. Why? For two simple reasons:
1. As you know all too well, many things affect performance of a Sim in complex inter-related ways (i.e., scripts, prims, avatars, media). We were reluctant to limit the overall experience and your creativity by posing specific limits on all these variables – partly because Linden Lab has always been pretty free-form and believes in the innate goodness of Second Life Residents and partly because imposing limits require that we hire staff to enforce them.
2. We wanted to get this product to market quickly. Openspaces was wildly popular. Some Island owners added ocean and park land, as intended but many built empires – glorious builds, beautiful rental properties and other great things. Since land-owners co-habitate on CPUs, if one owner adds an ocean and one builds a carnival, the shared CPU gets overloaded. The ocean-loving Resident who followed the original intent suffers and we are called in to resolve the conflict. Second Life is much too large to do that.
When we sorted through the good and bad in the many conversations, comment cards, emails, and calls, you shared many things but there were three consistent themes we can work with:
1. Those of you who used the Openspaces as originally intended — for ocean or park land — want that product at the original price point and are willing to accept clear restrictions on usage.
2. Some of you have built businesses on the Openspaces product, set your rental rates or built your groups and although you acknowledge you built more than was intended for Openspaces, a large and rapid price change is too much for you to absorb.
3. Some of you created builds that were between an ocean and a carnival and want some kind of “normal region lite” product – a lower price point than a normal region but with the ability to build a certain amount of content.
We’ve launched three land products in the company’s history: Mainland, Islands and now Openspaces. Because we have complexity everywhere else, we’re loath to add a highly complex pricing structure. Nevertheless, it’s clear we have to build a product mix and pricing structure that offers more flexibility.
Here is how we are amending the price change:
1. We are going to retain the Openspaces product at its original price point and its original intended use (forest, water, etc.). We will have technical limitations to help regulate their use, initially avatar and prim limit restrictions, eventually event, classified and script limits. Those of you who chose to use the Openspaces as intended may stay at the US$75 rate, but will need to contact the concierge team to do so.
2. If you want more than an Openspace, we will offer you the choice of moving to a new product called Homesteads that is intended for light use such as low density rentals. For existing Openspace owners we will phase in the price increase for this new product over the next 6 months. Homesteads will also have technical limits for avatars and prims, and eventually script limits as well.
* January 5, 2009 – non-compliant Openspaces will transition to Homesteads and the maintenance fees will go from $75 to $95 per month. We will offer an educational discount to qualified educators on the new Homestead product. The discount amount will be the same as Private Regions, roughly 30%.
* July 2009 — the maintenance fees for Homesteads will go from $95 to $125 per month
For detailed information on these changes, please go to the Knowledge Base.
We believe this is fair. Jack and I will join you in the forums throughout the day today to discuss this. Comments are closed on the blog, not because we want to limit dialog or free expression but because this is a conversation with Residents and the forums require log-in. This is a policy we are going to follow moving forward with all major announcements. Blog the announcement, express and discuss in the Forums.
One thing I learned and others were reminded about in this process is that we have a very connected, passionate Resident base and we need to bring you into the dialog earlier, before putting forward these decisions. The input we received after Jack’s announcement was prolific and by-and-large very, very constructive. Second Life is at a size where 1:1 conversations are difficult and the forums are inadequate for full dialog. Office hours come up short, too. We have some thoughts on how to bring Residents into the dialog earlier which we will cover in a future blog post and Forum discussion.
I’d like to close on this thought: An area of concern for Residents over the past year has been platform stability. Through the hard work of many, many people, including Residents, we have made great strides that are very well documented. Crash rates are down. Substantially. Period. And until this price change, we were riding high in user satisfaction so we know you have recognized and appreciated the improvements we’ve been making. Our breakthroughs in stability improvement are particularly noteworthy because our land mass increased enormously this year. And, a good part of that increase was from Openspaces. However, the original plan was to expand land mass but expand load at a much lower rate. But, Openspaces — in many cases — have been overloaded with content, scripts and avatars so our very substantial stability gains have come even with the unplanned load increase. We are deeply committed to making this the best virtual world platform in the world and we are making great strides. We’ve also demonstrated we can deliver on our promise of continual stability improvements – even in the face of unanticipated growth.
I look forward to hearing from you in the Forum. Thank you for your candor, patience, restraint and willingness to work with Linden Lab and the Second Life community at large. Second Life is the wonder that it is because Linden Lab has always worked together – albeit sometimes imperfectly – with Residents to build this magnificent, bigger than life world we all love so much.
Thank you. |
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Vander Reich
Registered User
Join date: 9 Oct 2008
Posts: 9
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11-06-2008 01:52
From: Courgan Barzane I did stop ready hundereds of pages with comments, I think, most is said anyways and apart from some Lindens undercover (always remarkable in that role: Snowflake Fairymeadow), no one will fall for that "improvements".
But aside from "compromises", new ideas and other talking, there is a single fact untouched:
Linden and me made a contract, they sold me a sim with 3750 usable prims for 250 USD + VAT and a monthly fee of 75 USD + VAT, which is really costly anyways, compared to other hosting opportunities.
And you, Lindens, really believe you can change that mutual contract onesided in your favor and raise not only the monthly fee ridiculously, but even invent more and further limitations? Don't bore me with your TOS or similar, this will not stand the test of a court.
But that you will find out very soon, I think... Excellent post!!! This should be the only post on this thread. |
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Cherry Czervik
Came To Her Senses
Join date: 18 Feb 2006
Posts: 3,680
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11-06-2008 01:54
From: Tracy Rubble From: Cherry Czervik
They won't admit "Sorry we screwed up" any more. Those days are long gone. Besides, if they say sorry that's admitting some form of liability.
QUOTE]
The majority of companies will not admit they made mistakes... it's a business thing. Read any companies customer satisfaction guarrantee... I used to work for an electric companies customer service dept. Theirs said "if we have made a mistake we will pay you £20"
Customer service reps were taught to "never admit liability".
They didn't want to pay out the £20.
yup lol I also train people never to admit liability WHERE THERE IS NONE - if we've messed up we give a goodwill gesture of some kind. That's because much as I might crack the whip over standards in my rl job, and much as my team probably think I am a harridan sometimes for it, they also know I appreciate what a fantastic job they do and that we give some pretty prime support. As I have told support I've actually used the way they handle complaints as examples of BAD customer service when training new recruits ...
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Vander Reich
Registered User
Join date: 9 Oct 2008
Posts: 9
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11-06-2008 01:57
From: Tracy Rubble I'm not overly aware of US law, but in the UK there is an unfair terms in consumer contracts law... the TOS is a consumer contract basically. Therefore, if your personal contract is the above, it stands at least by UK law... even if LL states "we can change these at any time with x amount of notice" if the courts feel it is an unfair term then its null and void. In the US a contract has to be beneficial and fair to all parties involved. I'm about 100% sure that LL doesn't want their TOS to come under scrutiny of a RL court. It would go bad for them. You can't eat your cake and have it too. Yeah, that's how the saying really goes! |
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Tracy Rubble
Registered User
Join date: 7 Nov 2007
Posts: 26
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11-06-2008 01:58
From: Cherry Czervik yup lol
I also train people never to admit liability WHERE THERE IS NONE - if we've messed up we give a goodwill gesture of some kind. That's because much as I might crack the whip over standards in my rl job, and much as my team probably think I am a harridan sometimes for it, they also know I appreciate what a fantastic job they do and that we give some pretty prime support.
As I have told support I've actually used the way they handle complaints as examples of BAD customer service when training new recruits ... That is similar... basically where there is no doubt to it being their mistake the company would admit and pay out... but we were not allowed to say "oh thats our fault" or admit it ourselves... that was the job of managers |
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Broccoli Curry
I am my alt's alt's alt.
Join date: 13 Jun 2006
Posts: 1,660
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11-06-2008 01:59
From: Vander Reich I'm about 100% sure that LL doesn't want their TOS to come under scrutiny of a RL court. It would go bad for them. Didn't that already happen, when that rl lawyer found a loophole in the auction system and they tried to mess with him, and it ended up in an out of court settlement in his favour and "don't talk about it"?
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Cherry Czervik
Came To Her Senses
Join date: 18 Feb 2006
Posts: 3,680
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11-06-2008 01:59
You know what? I wouldn't want a homestead anyway (watching as this word seeps into the group collective mind of SL users). You want that pioneer spirit back huh?
I wouldn't live in a homestead, see, I am not in America (yet). So even though your user base is international with a plethora of different languages spoken the lingo has to be specifically localised. When WILL you wake up to your customers? When?
Maybe Katt burned the popcorn on the fire when she was out home on the range ...
Incidentally, I find that comment about the popcorn Katt made quite offensive as it shows to me a basic contempt for any of the views expressed here as "entertainment". Actually it is quite entertaining but for the wrong reasons.
As has been stated time and time over, your user base is very intelligent. Linden Lab, Is that why you were never interested in their input beyond the occasional bit of lip service?
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To exchange power is sublime. To steal from another ... well, what goes around comes around.
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bo Heartsdale
Heartsdale Rentals
Join date: 15 Aug 2007
Posts: 14
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A question i would like answered before the end of the month
11-06-2008 02:05
Dear J and M Linden
I did not go through all the posts this time, but i did look through the answers Jack gave.
Let me compliment you with the way you get into this now, its more constructive than before and it shows you listen.
I may not agree to everything, but I think that is another discussion.
As one of the many rental coompanies that uses open spaces and that now must make the choice between OS or convert to sim I need to know 2 more things to make my business decision, just like you had to make yours.
1) The script limitation, it could affect of course how I could operate my company in SL. You said you will let us know before january 5th. I would like to ask if you could clarify more before the end of the month, as transferring a business to a sim takes time to, I respect my customers.
2) Maintenance fee of regular sims. It is clear what it is now, but can Linden Lab commit to a maintenance fee for 2009 for a sim. I do not want to be surprised with the same discussion on regular sims in january when we might transfer to that one.
Of course I understand there are more influences on maintenance fee, but at least promise us what the fee will be for the next 2 or 3 quarters.
After this sudden announcement the credibility of Linden Lab to do business with a resident of the Second Life has lowered already and I think making a commitment on maintenance fees for 2009 could give at least me, but I think many of us, more confidence.
Als this last question I would like to see announced before the end of the month.
Regards
bo Heartsdale
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Ellen Spark
Registered User
Join date: 29 Oct 2006
Posts: 4
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11-06-2008 02:12
I see so many Openspace owners whining in here about fairness, I presume these are the people who have misused them the most, undermineing full sims and full sim owners and telling residents that they can provide the same value and services and price as 1/4 of a full sim, but with 4 times the land. They were receiveing the same value and services as 1/4 of a full sim and paying the tier to LL for a 1/4 of a full sim and getting 4x the land as a bonus, the priceing was unfair!! Their actions have caused full sim owners not only a loss of residents, but many have lost or had to sell their full sim.
Why should anyone feel sorry for them for exploiting Openspace sims and hurting others in the process. I think the time delay increase is wrong, the full increase should happen in January as first intended. Their intent was to cheat the system and make money, that is so very wrong and their business model should not be honored. Many full sim owners have been trying to keep alive during this exploit, some have caved in and followed the masses even though it was wrong. The delay in increase may still cause some full sim owners who followed the rules and did what they were supposed to, to still go under.
Full sim owners have been complaing about this issue for months (the ones who didnt cave in to trend), I guess its about who whines the loudest. Also, I hope you are going to do somthing about all those zero prim rezzors and temp prim rezzors that are being used to override the region prim alowance on some of the OS sims, so many of the OS sims look like full blown regions.
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Terra Box
Registered User
Join date: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 40
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11-06-2008 02:15
From: Argent Stonecutter I'd say that sounds like standard operating procedure for cellphone companies. Except if you refuse the increase you keep your phone, but you lose the service, and it's locked to the carrier so you can't switch, and you have to pay an extra $250 when they cancel their service for early termination (even though you didn't terminate it). Well, I don't know where you live, but in my country that would be a breach of contract, a legal liability and certainly bad business practice. |
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Cherry Czervik
Came To Her Senses
Join date: 18 Feb 2006
Posts: 3,680
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11-06-2008 02:15
From: Tracy Rubble That is similar... basically where there is no doubt to it being their mistake the company would admit and pay out... but we were not allowed to say "oh thats our fault" or admit it ourselves... that was the job of managers Yep, you said it. So when someone is really hacked off and screaming ... they scream at me, or my line manager. LOL Thing is, I can take it and I am able to counter what has been said head on and with transparancy because I know for sure that what I am saying can be backed up by our regulatory board as being in compliance with their requirements. Hmmmmmm ...
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To exchange power is sublime. To steal from another ... well, what goes around comes around.
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Cherry Czervik
Came To Her Senses
Join date: 18 Feb 2006
Posts: 3,680
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11-06-2008 02:18
From: Ellen Spark I see so many Openspace owners whining in here about fairness, I presume these are the people who have misused them the most, undermineing full sims and full sim owners and telling residents that they can provide the same value and services and price as 1/4 of a full sim, but with 4 times the land. They were receiveing the same value and services as 1/4 of a full sim and paying the tier to LL for a 1/4 of a full sim and getting 4x the land as a bonus, the priceing was unfair!! Their actions have caused full sim owners not only a loss of residents, but many have lost or had to sell their full sim.
Why should anyone feel sorry for them for exploiting Openspace sims and hurting others in the process. I think the time delay increase is wrong, the full increase should happen in January as first intended. Their intent was to cheat the system and make money, that is so very wrong and their business model should not be honored. Many full sim owners have been trying to keep alive during this exploit, some have caved in and followed the masses even though it was wrong. The delay in increase may still cause some full sim owners who followed the rules and did what they were supposed to, to still go under.
Full sim owners have been complaing about this issue for months (the ones who didnt cave in to trend), I guess its about who whines the loudest. Also, I hope you are going to do somthing about all those zero prim rezzors and temp prim rezzors that are being used to override the region prim alowance on some of the OS sims, so many of the OS sims look like full blown regions. I hope for some reason (i.e. the remaining residents) that they do too. I disagree that the people "whining" are the ones misusing them. The people here mainly have used them as they were ADVERTISED i.e. without scripts ahoy, etc. I've said before - most of my (rent paid till the end of the month) OS is sculpted terrain, by me. The most people there was 4 at once. I have used 1000 of those 3750 that were dangled as a carrot. And I no longer care, it's just the last straw 
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To exchange power is sublime. To steal from another ... well, what goes around comes around.
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Broccoli Curry
I am my alt's alt's alt.
Join date: 13 Jun 2006
Posts: 1,660
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11-06-2008 02:19
From: Ellen Spark I see so many Openspace owners whining in here about fairness, I presume these are the people who have misused them the most, undermineing full sims and full sim owners and telling residents that they can provide the same value and services and price as 1/4 of a full sim, but with 4 times the land. They were receiveing the same value and services as 1/4 of a full sim and paying the tier to LL for a 1/4 of a full sim and getting 4x the land as a bonus, the priceing was unfair!! Their actions have caused full sim owners not only a loss of residents, but many have lost or had to sell their full sim.
Why should anyone feel sorry for them for exploiting Openspace sims and hurting others in the process. I think the time delay increase is wrong, the full increase should happen in January as first intended. Their intent was to cheat the system and make money, that is so very wrong and their business model should not be honored. Many full sim owners have been trying to keep alive during this exploit, some have caved in and followed the masses even though it was wrong. The delay in increase may still cause some full sim owners who followed the rules and did what they were supposed to, to still go under.
Full sim owners have been complaing about this issue for months (the ones who didnt cave in to trend), I guess its about who whines the loudest. Also, I hope you are going to do somthing about all those zero prim rezzors and temp prim rezzors that are being used to override the region prim alowance on some of the OS sims, so many of the OS sims look like full blown regions. ... and you have proof of all these accusations? For every OS owner that 'broke the rules' and overloaded them badly with a club or mall or whatever, there were probably 100 that were using them lightly. You also forget that not everyone using an opensim was doing it for land rentals - some were just using the land for something without having to worry about idiot neighbours devaluing their investment, and not for profit or even remotely covering the extortionate costs. Some people just like to create, landscape, and have fun on a little bit of server rack they can call their own*. *subject to unnecessary signup fee, overpriced monthly usage fee, use restrictions that can change at any time or for any reason, or just because we don't like you.
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Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
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11-06-2008 02:20
From: Vander Reich In the US a contract has to be beneficial and fair to all parties involved.
I'm about 100% sure that LL doesn't want their TOS to come under scrutiny of a RL court. It would go bad for them. The SL TOS are fairer than those of ANY other 3d environment I've seen. Seriously. Have a look. Most of them basically say "ALL YOUR CONTENT IS BELONG TO US. YOU HAVE NO CHANCE TO SURVIVE MAKE YOUR TIME. HA HA HA HA HA." |
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Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
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11-06-2008 02:22
From: Terra Box Well, I don't know where you live, The USA, home of bad cellular service and horrible cellphone contracts. Same place Linden Labs is. |
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Broccoli Curry
I am my alt's alt's alt.
Join date: 13 Jun 2006
Posts: 1,660
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11-06-2008 02:23
From: Argent Stonecutter The SL TOS are fairer than those of ANY other 3d environment I've seen. Seriously. Have a look. Most of them basically say "ALL YOUR CONTENT IS BELONG TO US. YOU HAVE NO CHANCE TO SURVIVE MAKE YOUR TIME. HA HA HA HA HA." Pass the tissues, I need to clean my monitor...
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Alain Gloster
Registered User
Join date: 4 Feb 2008
Posts: 4
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11-06-2008 02:24
It still dosn't add up
Assume I buy a full region..then I have 15000 prims and 100 avatars for $295/mo
now assume 2 homesteads use the same resources as one full sim..then I'd expect it to be limited to 7500prims, 50 av's and about $150/mo
If it's 4 homesteads I'd expect limits of 3750Prims, 25Av's and maybe $90/month to cover extra admin overheads (say $95)
But the new system allows for 3750 prims 20 AV's and costs $125/mo (after the final increase) so are you saying that each homestead chews up the resources of .6 full sims even when its capped at 25% of the prims and 20% of the AV's?
The only spot that has carefully not been listed as limited is script load (and after all those reboots and new versions to get mono working). So allow for 1/4 of the script load of a full sim, and develop a way of generating metrics (which you don't seem to have) and cap that. I know you would rather not bother with it, so put something in the client that lets the land owner or parcel owner see what kind of script performance they are chewing and make them manage it.
All I can see with teh homestead product is a long line of people either abandoning them (which I guess will give you a bunch of class 5 servers to upgrade full sims to) or upgrading their sims to full and parcelling them out like the worst slums on the mainland.
Also the new openspace limits are ludicrous...25% of the cost for a prduct thats essentially unusable...whats the point of a park that only 10 people can walk in, whats the point of an ocean where only 5 boats with two crew can sail? I race boats in the SLSA, on average you'll have 4-7 boats, 1 or 2 race directors and security people and a few spectators. Sail On, which is a regular on SLCNTV will go under becasue theres no way you can race when you can only get 10 people across a sim border at a time.
Respectfully I think $95 for 3750 Prims and 25 AV's is appropriate for homesteads and that new openspaces should be 750 prims 20 AV's and cost $50.
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Lord Sullivan
DTC at all times :)
Join date: 15 Dec 2005
Posts: 2,870
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11-06-2008 02:24
From: Talarus Luan Correct. Frank Ambrose came from AOL (who was rumored to have been dismissed from AOL for "unprofessional conduct" back in April).
No, that's a different Mark Kingdon (Mark E. Kingdon, to be precise). Our Mark (D.) Kingdon hails from Organic.com, an interactive marketing company, as CEO.
Though you certainly couldn't tell from the way this fiasco has been handled. :-/ Couple that with Zee Linden (John Zdanowksi) coming from HouseValues Inc who reportedly ripped off a load of their customers (You will have to google it all) and it says a lot about some of the upper management 
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Frederik Yalin
Registered User
Join date: 15 Mar 2007
Posts: 3
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11-06-2008 02:25
Dear M, dear Jack,
for many of us Opem Sim made it affordable to build wonderful homes and created beautiful places that were accessable for all residents to explore.
Others found a place to set their mainstores and gave shopping a new quality. I don't mean thosr laggy malls. I talk about low traffic sim with a nice atmosphere.
And what about these great artworks like "Tunnel of Light" for example? Aren't many of them built on Openspaces, too?
So, fact is: Openspaces are used for many purposes.
According to your blogpost:
I read the annoucement of M and thought "where is the compromise? the offer?". I read it 4 times and couldn't see anything that makes this anouncement better that the 1st from Jack.
You reduce the primrate to 750 (which is 0,10 US$/prim, btw - mainland is 0,02 US$/prim) for those who want to use their sim according to your intentions of an Openspace.
You keep the price increase of 66.7% for all the rest who saw a great opportunity in the concept of the Openspace. The only thing you grant is a suspension till July 09.
In addtion you give out strict limitations.
These are the facts.
My opinion:
I fully understand that you say, the performance of the OS is a great concern of yours, because the use of the OS are heavier than u have estimated.
BUT: Why did you raise the primlimit up to 3750 and set the wrong signal.
Or was it meant like: "Here you have 3750 prims but don't use more than 750 at the same time."???
I agree with you that limitation of agents, scripts and prims are useful and therefore okay. No probs here, these are measurements to fight the performance-problem.
My problem is the pirce increase, especially the amount.
If your intention was to solve the performance-probs why were u acting like a company that wants to gain more profit? Ok, in yesterdays announcement u offer some guidelines that may help increasing preformance - after heavy protest of the residents.
This generates distrust. Many people are disturbed, especially those who use SL as hobby. They are willing to pay a certain amount for their hobby but also have their limits.
Many share a sim to keep their payments small.
With 3 people shares raise from 25US$ to 42US$
With 4 people shares raise from 19US$ to 31US$
For many this won't be acceptable.
Your price increase will cause severe changes not only for the SL-Economie but also for the quality of OUR 2nd life in culture, art and all.
I really hoped for a compromise but u have offered a suspension and that is sad.
Thx for reading this.
Regards
Frederik Yalin
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Cherry Czervik
Came To Her Senses
Join date: 18 Feb 2006
Posts: 3,680
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11-06-2008 02:26
From: Argent Stonecutter The USA, home of bad cellular service and horrible cellphone contracts.
Same place Linden Labs is. Which explains why you're used to bad terms from a phone company. In the UK this would NOT play, at all.
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To exchange power is sublime. To steal from another ... well, what goes around comes around.
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Broccoli Curry
I am my alt's alt's alt.
Join date: 13 Jun 2006
Posts: 1,660
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11-06-2008 02:28
From: Lord Sullivan Couple that with Zee Linden (John Zdanowksi) coming from HouseValues Inc who reportedly ripped off a load of their customers (You will have to google it all) and it says a lot about some of the upper management I'm seeing a trend here...
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Jini Hammerer
The green chick
Join date: 22 Jul 2007
Posts: 196
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11-06-2008 02:29
From: Ellen Spark I see so many Openspace owners whining in here about fairness, I presume these are the people who have misused them the most, undermineing full sims and full sim owners and telling residents that they can provide the same value and services and price as 1/4 of a full sim, but with 4 times the land. They were receiveing the same value and services as 1/4 of a full sim and paying the tier to LL for a 1/4 of a full sim and getting 4x the land as a bonus, the priceing was unfair!! Their actions have caused full sim owners not only a loss of residents, but many have lost or had to sell their full sim.
Why should anyone feel sorry for them for exploiting Openspace sims and hurting others in the process. I think the time delay increase is wrong, the full increase should happen in January as first intended. Their intent was to cheat the system and make money, that is so very wrong and their business model should not be honored. Many full sim owners have been trying to keep alive during this exploit, some have caved in and followed the masses even though it was wrong. The delay in increase may still cause some full sim owners who followed the rules and did what they were supposed to, to still go under.
Full sim owners have been complaing about this issue for months (the ones who didnt cave in to trend), I guess its about who whines the loudest. Also, I hope you are going to do somthing about all those zero prim rezzors and temp prim rezzors that are being used to override the region prim alowance on some of the OS sims, so many of the OS sims look like full blown regions. Mis-used my ass.... The fact is LL is showing pure greed. They sold a product advertised it , bragged about how well the product is selling. then turned around and pulled that product off the market replacing it with an infearior product at higher costs. They are full of it ... saying that its costing them more to run the servers this way.... from time they fill a brand new server with new island and sell them off before they get the first monthly payment from the residents of that server they have already made enough money to pay it off. anf everything is additional income for the company from there. they are trying to milk the class 4 servers for aditional capitol and failed and now don't want to loose that additional profit margin its dishonest, greedy and unfair to the people who invested the almost 4 million dollars in initial costs of purchasing these virtual properties. |
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Yngwie Krogstad
Registered User
Join date: 7 Jun 2006
Posts: 233
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I have a dream!
11-06-2008 02:32
This is just going to be ingnored, I'm sure, but somebody needs to point this problem out.
I, and I'm sure many other SL customers, have a dream. It's not an elaborate dream. I just want a chance to have a nice space of my own to put together my own little paradise. Public area that people will come to and enjoy, and a private area well removed from it with a security orb, for personal private time. That's all. But it takes a lot of prims to realize something like this.
So, what have I seen in the last year, year and a half, or so? Private islands, which were already priced outside of my ability to get one in the first place, got more expensive. Then along came 3750 prims on openspace sims, with a price reduction. But you still have to own a private island or you can't have one. Sorry Charlie. Well, I was leasing one from the real owner anyway. It's proven to be the closest thing to the dream I have as you'll ever find in SL.
Meanwhile, in RL, the economy all over the world, not only here in the US where I live, is falling apart. Incomes are going down, unless you're so filthy rich that you wouldn't miss it if your income dropped anyway. Prices are going up (but again, if you're filthy rich, you don't even care). Consequently the money I, and everybody else, actually have doesn't go very far at all.
In the middle of all this, you at Linden Lab are going to increase the cost of the dream by 67% for those who have any prayer at all of attempting to live the dream. And this is supposedly to be our world and our imagination. Not a wise move.
In this world-wide economic client, raising any prices is a very bad idea for something like Second Life. No matter how addicted some people may be, it is not a necessity. I can eat without logging on to SL. I can have a roof over my head without logging on to SL. If I don't have the disposable income to own land in SL, guess what? I won't own any, and I'll still be able to talk to the people who matter the most to me.
It's time to take into account the ability to realize Philip's vision and our dreams. As it stands right now you're holding them for ransom in a huge shakedown. Bad form. Make me feel positively sick to my stomach that we're being treated so callously.
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Lissa Fimicoloud
Registered User
Join date: 29 Jul 2007
Posts: 75
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11-06-2008 02:33
Darn - I must have missed the change of topic to "be offensive and insulting, and please use character assassination in place of argument". Must be in the wrong thread.
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