Open Spaces Announcement & Talk with M and Jack Linden
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Argos Hawks
Eclectically Esoteric
Join date: 24 Jan 2007
Posts: 1,037
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11-05-2008 21:36
From: Jack Linden As for a definition of 'rental' as it relates to the Openspace product, I expect in the large majority of cases it will be very clear whether a region is being used for scenery, for just water and forest, as opposed to it being used to live on. Where there are edge cases, we will need to look more closely. So you're claiming the main difference is attitude. If I make a forest, and 10 people are constantly there 24/7, but none of them consider it home, that's a park. But if I make an identical forest where 1 or 2 people spend an hour or two every day and consider it home, then that's a homestead. Explain how the hell that makes any kind of sense. And try to use simple words, because this RL rocket scientist can't understand anything you're saying.
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Annemarie Perenti
Registered User
Join date: 28 Nov 2006
Posts: 11
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11-05-2008 22:08
From: Nicoladie Gymnast They simply changed the name from "Openspace" to "Homestead," and charge exactly the same in the previous announcement, $125/month, 3750 prims, and added more specific restrictions:
* 20 avatars limit
* no malls
* no events
whereas there was no limit in the last announcement.
Then worst yet, they downgraded the "Openspace" from 3750 prims into 750 prims, 10 avatars for $75/month and they call this accommodating you?
What a joke!
That is yet another price increase beyond the last announcement. YES! A true bargain... 750 prims x 75$/month is like 15,000 prims @ 1500/month 3750 prims x 125$ /month is like 15,000 prims @ 500/month What a joke! I can see an increase on the tier of full islands coming... But you know what, they are right: The shame is on us that submit to these conditions. At the end of December I am out. Good luck! |
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Keokipele Ansar
Registered User
Join date: 28 May 2008
Posts: 31
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Here's some new math that makes a little more sense to me!
11-05-2008 22:09
[edit] well, glory be . . . after posting the message below, I saw the figures above . . . this announcement is no compromise at all! We're still having it stuck to us -- dry! I'll stand by my scenario below . . . there has to be some value added with a price increase of 67%! I've only got 1/4 of an Island SIM as regards prim allowance! How is it a compromise that I'll be paying 42% of the price of an Island SIM come July 09 but still only get 1/4 of the objects AND new restrictions on scripts and avatars? Are the restrictions supposed to be the value added for the price increase? Sheeeeesh . . . now I'm dumbfounded.
M . . . I appreciate your response and willingness to work with the residents but the compromise announcement still is not clear enough as many posts have already stated.
I haven't had the opportunity to follow the links to the knowledge base from your announcement so forgive me if some of this is dealt with there.
Under the terms of your current plan, by July 09, the new "Homesteads" will be paying roughly 42% of the cost of an Island SIM. It seems to me that there should be at least a 30 to 35% increase in prim allowance to go along with that. If the prim allowance stays where it is, the deal is hardly worth it. I have an open space that has light construction and is well within the prim allowance and typically shows only a 0.4ms script time. Granted, we've just started marketing for rentals and there aren't many visitors yet, but hopefully that will change. However, giving the script time alone, even with visitors, I hardly think we will be approaching an overload scenario. So where do we fall, then? Homestead or Open Space?
I think this plan of yours is almost there, but along with the new product, put 2 or 3 of them on a CPU and increase the Prim allowance. A 30% increase in prim on an Open Space would put it at 4875 (3750 + 1125). Three of these Homesteads on a CPU would put the prim load at 14,625 (a 375 prim buffer from an Island SIM load). Add to that a restriction on script time and perhaps a decreased avatar limit and you have a product that seems to me would not overburden the system but still offer some value to residents to go along with the price increase.
Again, I urge you to be far more specific. In this economy, we are starved for added value for our hard earned dollars (insert your own monetary denomination here for our friends outside the US).
I'm sure there are tons of suggestions in the replies already, and this one may already exist. My apologies if that is the case, but RL is keeping me from in depth study of the responses and the knowledge base link you provided. So don't get me wrong, I think LL's willingness to listen and offer a compromise restores some faith. Just go a little further and I think there will be cause for celebration rather than continued discussions.
Peace!
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Chester Capalini
Registered User
Join date: 19 Feb 2007
Posts: 22
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Great news for NP/Edu (not)
11-05-2008 22:09
First I have to admit that LL has sent me a notice that, as qualified non-profit, tiers won't be raised in the middle of a tier period. So we'll be confronted with the changes after our 6 or 12 months of payment are over. That's a good thing! There is a "but": Open Space sims won't be available with the NP/Edu discount anymore. That means (for those who don't know) that OS price goes up from US$ 37,50 to US$ 75 (an increase of 100%). Apart from that, an OS won't have the possibilities of a Homestead sim (what, in fact, now is an Open Space sim), so we'll have to switch the OS sims to HS sims. Price: US$ 125, with (see https://support.secondlife.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=4417&task=knowledge&questionID=5650) a discount to US$ 87,50! Still an increase of US$ 50 every month, more than 130%!!! For us it means quitting one OS sim and keep the other as a HS sim, taking for granted that we still pay US$ 12,50 more for *half the space* we used to have and (hopefully) the same prim amount, visitors (were there limitations on visitors on OS before?) and scripts running. Scripts running and CPU ratios TBD: I'm still very worried about that. I may hope that on a HS sim, a decent amount of scripts can run and that LL decides to make the CPU ratio 2 (or max. 3) HS sims on one CPU core. Linden Lab still has a lot to learn when it comes to keeping your customers satisfied! Apologies for the "hit and run"-strategy are appropriate... so I'll wait for that (but won't keep my breath for that to happen). |
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Mephistopheles McMinnar
Be, or not to be...
Join date: 14 Sep 2008
Posts: 70
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11-05-2008 22:10
must be a strange video, because it isn't available for germany
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As my peculiar element I claim. (Mephistopheles from "Faust" J.W.v. Goethe)
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Shad Raffke
Registered User
Join date: 3 Feb 2006
Posts: 34
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Regarding the recent new proposal from M Linden on the blog...
11-05-2008 22:13
I am not personally an owner of an openspace sim, but I find LL's newly announced intentions still very unacceptable.
(1) They declare they will still fail to uphold the original contracts with their openspace sim purchasers, and rather penalize all of them for falling for their bait and switch tactic of pushing this product line to the community.
(2) They still decline any real objective or quantifiable definition of what they consider a "heavy load" open space sim to be, nor any solution for them. If they are going to charge people more for "heavy load" on a server, it would seem rational they would at least solve the issue of "heavy load" by assigning only 2 of them to a core (rather than 16 per quad core server), and likewise consider increasing prims to 7500. However the way it stands, I perceive they show intent to make more money by charging more with no real solution to the the underlying problem they convinced everyone to exist.
I would be curious to know the exact number of openspace sims occupying the grid, just so I can have idea how much increased revenue they are attempting to generate. I would bet its a tremendous figure. Maybe they will all also breakdown the number of current openspace sims meeting their definition of "heavy load". Would be nice to see LL be a little more transparent with regard to this matter.
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Mateo Infinity
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Join date: 21 Aug 2007
Posts: 3
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11-05-2008 22:21
Well I do consider this a step in the right direction, but still not well planned or executed. The original Open Space concept had about 1875prims but then was upped to 3750 and now axed down to a pathetic 750 prims?
Is 3750 too many for an OS Sim, yes, however let's get those sims back to their original form and allow somewhere from 937 to say 1500, would be more accurate. The 10 people on a sim at a time I think is fine. I also support blocking event flagging, and classified.
So conclusion on OS Sims, other than the prims being a bit too restrictive now especially for $75, I think it will make a good product. If you are going to keep the prims at 750 then the price needs to be more reflective in the $50-70 range.
Homestead Sims hmmm. I appreciate the prim limit of 3750 remaining the same. However, the pricing is still unbalanced. I think the avatar limit of 20 is good, even making some other limits I do fully support. However, in the end you are still going to charge your customers an additional $50 per month for a much lesser product. Most "home" based OS Sims now rarely have many avatars on it at the same time, they mainly just use a lot of prims. So I while I'm fairly happy with the OS product, the Homestead product I still feel is unfairly prices. I personally would only support a cost of say $95-110 per month.
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Lucrezia Lamont
Neko Onmyoji
Join date: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 808
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11-05-2008 22:24
From: Mephistopheles McMinnar must be a strange video, because it isn't available for germany Very interesting. It's a rather comical (I suppose it depends on your perspective) satire of the current situation as told through a German WWII film (with some creative subtitling). I think I'm more saddened that Germany would block this video due to the content (Hitler). If indeed that is what is happening. I didn't think there was such censorship in such a progressive country. That aside, and focusing back on the intent of this thread... I have nothing else to add that other fellow discontented individuals haven't said already. If LL insists on using their customers for beta testing, then maybe they should hire some to run their company before it crumbles from disuse. A very sad day indeed.
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Kentrock Messmer
Registered User
Join date: 27 May 2007
Posts: 22
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On the lighter side
11-05-2008 22:33
Please pass this on TO FUNNY ( JACKASS AND THE BEAN COUNTERS) http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy9hQDT6fhI |
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Reacher Rau
Reach Isles
Join date: 9 Mar 2007
Posts: 40
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11-05-2008 22:36
wow. is everyone who immediately shifted into whining mode last week happy now? before the whining: - openspaces remain exactly as they are, only, price goes up to 125 in january. after the whining (now): - openspaces ("homesteads"  will be hard limited to 20 avatars, as well as have undetermined script restrictions applied, both of which make them less usable. and the price still goes up to 125 eventually. great work. Viva la Revolucion!  |
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Orion Shamroy
Registered User
Join date: 5 Jan 2007
Posts: 13
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11-05-2008 22:36
From: Aminom Marvin I read the announcement and then thought about it for a while, without reading other's opinions to taint my initial train of thought. My conclusion is this: This isn't a large change from the previous openspace policy at all. The effect is exactly the same, except that the time to impliment the price increases has been lengthened. M Linden is trying to take the marketing approach of defining the issue away using semantics: he is saying that they are introducing a "new" product (homesteads) which is actually what openspaces currently are. The actual new product is given the name "openspace" instead. This reversal is backwards and smells of Orwellian doubletalk. It's also incredibly insulting to residents, and so transparent that even the casual onlooker can see what is attempted. Fact: In the second blog post, Jack Linden said that the large majority of Openspaces are not being used for their intended purposes. This would define that large majority of people as "homestead" product users. So, the large majority would see the fee increases. What is someone wants to downgrade to the "new" openspace product with 750 prims? They're going to have to either destroy nearly all of their build and not use it remotely how they did. The alternative is to either pay out the new tier increases, or get out of the openspace. Some people may buy this reasoning at the present, but it won't last. This is nowhere near an acceptable, fair solution for residents and you will see that in continued protests, release/sale of land, and slowing business. ---------------------------------- A viable solution This represents the second time Linden Lab has dropped the ball on this issue. Please do not make it a third. There _IS_ a way for both residents and LL to win in resolving this issue. At the same time, the wounds residents feel could be healed and Linden Lab could restore some of its lost trust. Using Linden Lab's rationale, the reasoning is this: openspaces have been used in unexpected ways that increase strain on SL as a whole and on simulators. Increasing prices is one way to correct this by forcing people out of openspaces or possibly allocating less openspaces to a server. However, this comes at great cost to residents, trust in SL, and the economy of the grid as a whole. Instead, LL should be using innovation to approach this issue, by developing new technology and optimizing the way SL works. Developing new technology: Linden has already started on this. For example, a switch to HTTP assets would make SL run more smoothly and reduce bandwidth usage. The establishment of LLNet would also increase efficiency and cut costs. ( http://blog.secondlife.com/2008/10/28/ongoing-updates-from-the-grid-from-fj-linden/). In addition, other things could be implimented such as better server load balancing, increasing cashe limits and the way it works, and other means. Doubtlessly there is potential for large improvements (and large savings). Optimizing the way SL works: this involves fixing bugs and issues that are in the current code. http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-8503 describes a major bug that could be responsible for a sizable increase in strain on the asset servers. These approaches have the advantage of 1) retaining current prices for products for residents 2) not only cutting costs, but bettering how SL works and the experience of using SL. However, there is another huge windfall: if this approach is taken instead, we could see the massive Openspace movement of thousands of active residents instead shift to a movement to make SL better. Residents who are professional programmers or technologically minded could tear through the code to look for bugs and issues, or serve as a think tank to come up with new solutions. Residents who are less technologically minded, if given the right tools, could serve to bug and problem test the use of the platform. Linden Lab has 250+ employees. If they take this approach, they could add to that force THOUSANDS more active residents who do work for free because it is in their best interest to do so. If many residents see that helping to bug test and help with ideas a few hours each week could help keep THEIR prices low, they would be more than willing. That has been seen in this OS movement: lots of people devoting loads of time and energy towards something they believe in. And of course, residents would also see their own experience improve by helping Second Life. Imagine how this could improve customer trust, communication, and community. Managed correctly, Linden could show how residents can affect SL in a tangible, meaningful way. In release notes or blog posts of new features and fixes, they could give numbers for how many people were involved in the fix or feature's development. The level of involvement could go way beyond the PJIRA. Linden Lab, please consider this solution. It doesn't have to be permanent; Linden Lab could simply try it for a few months to see how this approach works, and if it ends up not fulfilling needs, then the price increases could be reconsidered. Given that rational, why not just open up the source code to the server? By making it available to the public they would as well be adding to their developer base. Surely that would make a difference in regards to streamlining and cleaning up the tech side of SL. |
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Rasmus Pennell
Registered User
Join date: 6 Mar 2007
Posts: 8
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Still inacceptable
11-05-2008 22:38
When we got our void/water, now openspace sims there was a prim limit of 1875 prims. We used these sims for nothing else than their purpose. We never had more than 1875 prims on them.
What you are doing now is actually nothing else than the huge turd you dropped on us before, just you say we have to eat that turd later or in smaller amounts.
Why do I have to lower my prims to 750 when/if I never even used the voids as openspaces (ie more than 1875 prims, rentals, residential, etc.)???
There are answers to this? I do not see any.
Are you aware that you are ruining continents with that? Ambiences? Surroundings? It is not that you can just take out over 1000 prims from a void and all will be fine? Or do you send out moles for free to do the work to make it whole again?
I do not see that. So We have to pay the same price, accept a prim decrease from 1875 to 750 and fill out one of the awesome support tickets and beg to stay in the same tier level and also have to redo the awesome lindenwaterspace on our own?
Good job guys... When Obama said, "Yes we can!" he meant something else, if you did not know.
This is a dry fart in a brown paperbag and nothing else. At least for those who got voids and never misused them. Thanks Linden Lab
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Kentrock Messmer
Registered User
Join date: 27 May 2007
Posts: 22
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Jack and his beans
11-05-2008 22:52
This is fraud plain and simple, bait and switch. It is brainless to prove this. 3750 to 500? They fuckeed us once and they got away with it. Now Jack thinks we are all sluts , the noob. Not this time, lets start contacting the venture capital guys that funded Linder lab. Tell then this nood will crash the game.
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Orion Shamroy
Registered User
Join date: 5 Jan 2007
Posts: 13
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11-05-2008 22:58
From: Ceera Murakami OK, read the post and the Knowledge Base FAQ that relates to it.
I still have a few questions:
Does LL believe that a lower avatar limit (max 20) and possible script limitations will be sufficent to ensure performance on a Homestead sim that is using the full 3750 prims?
Would it not be a wise step to consider reducing the number of homestead sims assigned to a single server core, from 4, as the OS is now, to 2 or 3 per core?
Why not allow direct purchase of Homestead sims, without other sim ownership? One of the largest reasons people flocked to set up homes on OS sims was because the prim count and price point and the ability to have them disconnected from other sims made them ideal for offering some semblance of privacy. If I could purchase a Homestead sim strictly for my own personal use, and have it not connected to any other sim, so I cold disallow public access, that would be an ideal home for me, and for many in SL. Complete privacy, and no landlord other than Linden Lab. So WHY can't I just buy one direct from LL?
I support reducing actual OS sims to 10 avatars and 750 prims, You need no more than that for open water and for forests, if you aren't trying to set up homes in them. I've been saying this for some time now, that LL really needs to diversify its product offerings in regards to standalone sims. First of all, make all forms of sim available for purchase directly from LL - regardless of what type of land you currently own. This will stop alot of the problems residents like me have experienced in past with bad landlords. Second, instead of offering 1/4, full, and double prim sims, offer the full gambit. 1/3, 1/4, 1/2, full, and double. Surely you guys must have a huge stock pile of older grade servers that could be re-commissioned for use with the lower prim sims. Say use an old class 3 to handle the 1/4 or less, class 4 to handle 1/2, and class 5+ to handle full and double. As for pricing, base it all on the highest grade sim available then work your way backwards. Assuming a full prim sim is $300 / month and a double prim is $600. Then 1/2 prim should be $150 and 1/4 prim should be $75. Simple, eloquent solution that alienates nobody and in the end generates more revenue by offering more options to different people at a fair price. As for my rants and raves about feeling betrayed, leaving SL, no longer trusting Linden, etc. I'm out of steam. I've already made my future plans and current feelings known so there's no use in repeating. All I ask is a little common sense and sanity among those who run this world. Thank you, The ghost of Orion Shamroy.  |
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Kentrock Messmer
Registered User
Join date: 27 May 2007
Posts: 22
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Whats a few 1000's to a surf?
11-05-2008 23:00
WTF did this guy sleep through economics? Or is the real goal to liquidate SL? If so that’s fraud.
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Josef Balbozar
Registered User
Join date: 1 Nov 2007
Posts: 3
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Open Spaces Announcement
11-05-2008 23:00
It was most interesting to read a more complete explanation for the increases and a relief to know that my favourite places of all time for visiting and sailing will stay on the map.
Well done and best of luck from a future Homesteader!
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Broccoli Curry
I am my alt's alt's alt.
Join date: 13 Jun 2006
Posts: 1,660
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11-05-2008 23:06
62 pages of comments, half a dozen replies from Jack, and diddly squat from M. Isn't this issue worth perhaps working a little late for once to post a bit more?
Over the years, many dumb decisions have been made by LL. Every single one of them, residents have explained reasons why it's a bad idea, been ignored by LL, and been proven right pretty much every time.
Once again, LL do 'their own thing' instead of listening to their playerbase, who know and use the product on a daily basis, and are far more knowledgeable than a bunch of execs who hardly ever log in to SL, let alone use it to achieve anything, build anything, etc.
Admitting you screwed up, listening to our comments and concerns and reversing this clearly dumb decision would go a long way to smoothing this over.
At the end of the day, *us*, your community, your builders, your unpaid evangelists who enthuse about our time in SL to our friends, family and colleagues, that actually provide you with the contents of a product to showcase are your most important resource. Without us, you are nothing - and certainly far more important than the vulture capitailsts that you're trying to appease here because many people have made suggestions to improve the mess of your making in the first place, yet it's all down to making money for you, and screw everything else.
You operate out of expensive offices when you could move to somewhere far cheaper. Your top execs are paid outrageous salaries for doing very little, and are not needed. If you aren't making a profit after all these years, it's your own fault, and maybe you should do like many other companies are doing, looking at expenses and cutting back to cope with the global recession, instead of forcing unjustified price increases on your increasingly shrinking (and annoyed) income base, which are already paying over the odds in the first place.
...whilst you still have one.
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Rylan Oldrich
Registered User
Join date: 15 Feb 2008
Posts: 8
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A clear explanation is in order
11-05-2008 23:08
My partner and I came to SL with high expectations to build our vision of an ideal world for us. We bought a full sim and created a truly beautiful place for our home. When LL offered the openspace sims (3750 prims) we bought 3 more and attached them to our main sim. We used the prims to compliment and complete our home. They are all under our prim limit, have a reasonable number of scripts running and the only avatars on them are the 2 of us and an occasional friend. We have events on our main sim but do not use the openspace sims for any event related uses. We liked the product well enough that we purchased additional ones. One we use just for building. Two are rented to our friends for their private homes and in one case a very small store attached. We have 2 that we put a few very small low prim cottages to rent to people who value peace and privacy. In all cases, we are under our alloted prims, do not have issues with lag, and have NEVER had more than 7 or 8 agents on any sim at any time and usually have 2 or 3 at a time on average. We are clear with everyone what these spaces are and their limitations. We invested a large amount of money in the purchase of the sims and pay Linden Labs nearly $1000 per month. We also have spent hundreds of thousands of L$ across the grid building our sims and regularly support live music on our main full sim.
In return for this sizable investment and support of Second life we have had to live with crashes, failed teleports, endless updates and roll backs, inability to cross between our home attached sims, friend's lists not working, voice fading in and out, and just a never ending list of poor perfpormance, poor customer service, and inability of linden to provide a stable environment. Now we are characterized as abusers of our openspace sims and told that the product we were sold does not work, its our fault, and we need to pay more for it, but nothing is being even mentioned about how this will change or improve the quality of service.
I should also point out that you are offering these "new" products and have priced them before you have even established the product specifications and limitations for them. Linden Labs has a history of making announcements and promises and failing to meet their own goals and deadlines, and this appears to be another decision that was, at best, not throughly researched, analyzed, and considered. One may only look at the introduction of mono that was put forth as the answer to script induced lag, but since we are now looking at limiting scripts, it appears this is another 'failure' in the making. One might also wonder about future pricing for full sims and services given your perception of "value" of the openspace and homestead products.
Perhaps your efforts would be better spent addressing grid stability, real lag and bandwith abuse such as camping and bots, and the overall customer experience instead of new colors in the browser and a out of world IM system that drains resources and money from your core product.
At the end of the day, LL is really just a provider of server space and data routing and the openspace sim fiasco should be a a clear warning that your planning, resource allocation, and product development needs to completely rebuilt and redesigned, maybe adding some constructive end user and customer feedback and some common sense.
You will likely succeed in the short term with keeping many customers, myself included, with some changes. But I, for one, will use far more caution, will invest nothing more in SL and will actively seek alternatives, so your apparent success, will ultimately be the downfall of what was once a very promising and innovative social and business network. I am sure you have succeeded in motivating competition and making many of your customers think of SL in very different terms and you should never forget that you need your customers far more than they need you, a simple lesson that seems long forgotten at LL.
Your current path will leave you with a landscape of billboards, sex clubs, and tiki huts and will surely drive out beauty, creativity, and enterprise. How much would YOU pay or invest in a world like that?...and more important would YOU invest in a company that had this kind of track record?
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Kentrock Messmer
Registered User
Join date: 27 May 2007
Posts: 22
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Year end bonus for Jack after 3 months
11-05-2008 23:12
It’s like F the players. You can’t make money here only we can.
How many players are going to stay?
I want a screaming Mc Donald’s sign in my bedroom window.
Yes we can’t sell main land? Wonder why?
So sell a product that sells and then stick it to them.
This looks like year end window dressing to me.
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Nae Mayo
Registered User
Join date: 29 Apr 2007
Posts: 228
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Will this new price help improve the land economy?
11-05-2008 23:15
Like most estate owner, my first response to the announcement is...not much changes. Tier increase is still same L125. Only delayed for 6 months and name change to 'Homesteads'. And a new 'openspace' category is introduced for those who need lots of space.
When LL introduce the openspace with 3750 prims and tier L75, it kills private sim. Why?
For 1/4 tier price of a full sim, you get 1/4 prims but 100% land space of a full sim. Who want a full sim? I can have 4 times the land size with openspace for the same price.
In the long run, OS wil kill private sim sale and mainland.
With the new price model, you pay the price of 1/2 sim (L125) but 1/4 prims of a ful sim. So where did the other half of my money goes to? Empty land. yes, land without prim comes with a price tag now. Its no longer free as before.
But this place the new HomeSteads sim in another category. Not in direct competition with private sim. There will be less demand for it. But there will be demand. For now...it is over-supplied.
For the new 'Openspace' category. The same rules apply. Many will wonder why I pay half the price of Homesteads but the number of prims is not even a quarter of it. Because a large portion of it is for paying the empty space. About 1000sqm/$1 (without prim).
Using a full private sim as reference:
Cost for 3750 prims is $73.75 for 16384sqm.
So in Homesteads, we pay $73.75 for 16385sqm (with prim) and $51.25 for 49152sqm primless land. That's $1 for 959sqm primless land.
Cost for 750 prims in full sim is $14.75 for 3276.8sqm.
In the new Openspace, we pay the remaining $60.25 for 62259.2sqm primless land. That's $1 for every 1033sqm of primless land.
So am I happy with the new tier? NO. I'm still losing money. I need to drop 2 Homesteads before July 2009. The 6 months period is not enough for me to recoup my initial investment. But then, if the delay is too long, it will take longer for the private estate economy to recover.
This is my personal opinion as estate owner.
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Hern Worsley
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Join date: 11 Aug 2006
Posts: 122
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11-05-2008 23:18
Been spending a lot of time reading so many well thought out points ..learned a lot too. Some suggestions that i feel are important personally. 1. Stop blaming your customers and admit your mistakes:- Poor communication of what proper use was prompted first of all by a doubling of the prim limits. In addition LL itself as an organisation built many SIM's using the LDPW that under your present conditions would be considered "abuse" this clearly sent the wrong message. http://www.vintfalken.com/raymond-conspiracy-theory-is-ll-gaming-us/?I dont quite agree with "conspiracy theories" but this blog lays it out for all to see that these SIMs were apparently abusing what OS were originally intended for and are all developed by the Linden Department of Public Works this is evidence that can't be argued with and also discounts any claims that these uses were unforeseen. A response on this would be much appreciated although i imagine the only fitting one would be "sorry". To admit you >WERE< incompetent will at least show you are aware of the fact and are learning which is understandable if communicated in the right manner. No matter what happens now you have already shown to many that this is indeed the case and even to aplologise at this point after losing the trust of many will come over as disengenious even if meant ..which is saddening. 2. 95usd would be a fair price for me and make the Homestead product a viable one at 125 usd it will make no economic sense to anyone when comparing resources / cost which is how we all look at our land in SL it basically boils down to Prims per dollar. At 125 usd a month this would be hard to justify for just about any resident and any use under comparison with other options available. 3. I am not involved with educational use of SL but i feel Educational institutions deserve a discount on all land options inside SL as the value they add is priceless now and for the future of this platform. What worries me currently is that you have already replied with this new set of conditions and we have to appreciate that you have done so. However how many times can you reconsider without seeming incompetent here? To change things yet again would make you appear rather weak and unsure so if you are to do so yet again please take all the time you need. Consider the damage done whatever happens and lets hope its 3rd time lucky. |
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Darkness Anubis
Registered User
Join date: 14 Jun 2004
Posts: 1,628
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11-05-2008 23:21
I do applaud exactly one facet of the M letter.
For years many of us have been begging for LL to give concrete guidelines when they make a big policy or pricing shift.
Apart from the script limits which are not determined yet. This statement by M and the knowledge base article are the absolute best set of guidelines for being specific that I have ever seen come out of LL. For once there are very, VERY few shades of grey in the interpretation.
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Grady Vuckovic
Not happy with LL
Join date: 1 Apr 2008
Posts: 145
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Nu-Uh.. wait a minute LL.
11-05-2008 23:23
I honestly would of been happier right back at the beginning if LL just came out and said:
"We can't afford what we're selling, the market has changed. We need to increase prices."
If they admitted they made a mistake and had to increase prices. I'd say:
"Well they're a business, so am I. If the market changed and the costs of providing my services increased because of that, I'd increase my prices too!"
Not:
"We have to increase prices because your using the product we gave you *WITHIN* the restrictions we set."
They gave us 3750prims, and now they're spanking our rearends because we.. what?.. used them? They gave us 100 agent limits too. These limits were *advertised* even. Now they're saying "Oh we didn't actually think you would have 100 people there or would use that many prims."?
Would an ISP give 512kbps internet with *no download limit* and then call you up and complain when you download 100GB of files??
All residents have done is use the service they paid for within the restrictions that LL set. If there was no intention for open space sims to ever have more than 750prims, WHY DID THEY INCREASE THE PRIM LIMIT??
LL if you rent out a 4-bedroom house, you can't come back and increase the rent just because "Oh sorry, we didn't intend for you to use all 4 rooms, just 1."
Which has become a fitting example now, cause the new price is basically the cost of renting a house in RL.
This is the same crap, just painted a prettier colour. So now they're not only:
1. Lieing to us
2. Blaming us for their mistake
3. Increasing prices
They're also now:
4. Treating us like total idiots and playing tricks on us.
5. Add limits to both types of sims. (Openspace and "homestead" or something)
This is a step backwards people!!
So now we're basically being hit with the price increase AND now tighter restrictions if we want to keep the advertised service we originally bought.
LL... "NOT HAPPY JANE!" >:\
LL I will be getting rid of my openspace sim soon. Not even because of the price increase now, but just because I've lost faith in SL as being a possible place to do business. I wouldn't setup shop in a 3rd world country where the country is run by a warlord. Nor will I setup shop in a virtual world where the 'Gods' can change the rules at any time and treat the residents like this.
Now on, I'm in SL only to talk with and spend time with my friends. No more making content and no more renting land. It's just not worth it.
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Trinity Isabella
Registered User
Join date: 18 Jan 2007
Posts: 1
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Money for nothing
11-05-2008 23:34
So it seems that the average SL resident does not care that the cost of unusable space except to look at it is 75 usd. Basically Linden labs is getting the money for land that they do not want residents to use other than to look at...Sounds an awful lot like a rip off to me.
And now that they are making it a homestead..........and i have to pay someone else tier, is Linden labs going to sell these separately without us having to buy a standard sim?
The bottom line is they sold them with x number of usable prims, so why is it that those that used the prims ...........for whatever reason, is being penalized with a much higher Price per prim cost than a standard mainland when they put 4 of these on a server and a std sim has its own. Something is fishy with this and it seems that the economic times have just given them a reason to make paying residents pay even more and it stinks.
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Shai Khalifa
Registered User
Join date: 20 Oct 2006
Posts: 30
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Same message just packaged differently
11-05-2008 23:36
I agree with a lot of the assessments made here:
We're now being offered what - less? with the only sweetener that we get a 6 month reprieve?
Sorry, as I have a lurking feeling that the next move will be to increase full sim fees, I'm going to put my 2 OS sims (which were low prim use and very low script and even lower traffic) up for sale to whatever someone will pay for them.
So the beautiful creative space we built will be no more. What the hell - it's all virtual anyway. I'm off to help build OpenLife - at least they admit they're struggling and appreciate the support of the people who've flocked to their cause lately.
I'll live with the bugs and the problems - I can still create my spaces probably with more people to see them.
LL lost my loyalty and trust when they devalued my newly-purchased full sim by 650USD - then in a blink, my newly purchased OS (that I paid 450USD for) by half. That was 900USD gone - in one fell swoop - and no apology or recompense. Daylight robbery in my opinion then - and this latest debacle is little more than more of the same.
I'm sick of being treated like an open pocket. I work hard in RL for my money and what was a hobby for me is now lost me a lot of money - and LL want me to pay even more for less.
I'm not going to play the role of the LL patsy any longer folks.
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