Open Spaces Announcement & Talk with M and Jack Linden

They may be moving their businesses to Openlife, but as of yet there is no in-world currency in Openlife, so people cannot buy their products from them. Their businesses will not survive long if Openlife doesn't get a currency established quickly. In the meantime, businesses must give their products away as freebies. Which is great for goodwill, but sure does nothing to help them pay the bills.

Sire Phillip,

Wonderful pr job..AHAHAHA 102.075 views in a few days?

Get the bean counters together again.

Umm... Do you have a reference for it being open to users in 2000? I would really like to know.

The company was formed in 1999. It would probably take a couple of years to write the code. And one of the long time residents whose information I respect said that it first opened to private beta in late 2002. The earliest most people talk about is 2003.

Firelight

The OS sim I "live" on was purchased for me by a friend who owns an estate and then sold to me. I am listed as the owner of the land but she pays the fee to LL. Will this still be allowed as a homestead sim? I understand that I can't sell the land except back to her but will I still be listed as the owner of the land? Will this be considered a rental? I am the only person on this sim, I paid for the purchase, pay the fee (through her) and I only pay her cost.

I am trying in my mind to justify the extra $20 a month. For $75 I can pay tier on mainland for the same number of prims but in addition to less "space" I have to deal with ugly builds, mainland lag, no water access for the most part, random strangers walking through my land while I'm building, estate tools, etc. Is it worth $20 to not have those hassles? I still don't know.

And then the reality hits. It's only an extra $20 until July then it bumps to $50. That is just too much. I might be able to live with $95 a month for a quarter sims worth of prims on a private island but not $125. Maybe if the priced stayed at $75 or even $95 I could justify it but not at $125.

Also, the old void sims before the open space policy change had 1875 prims. I understand LL wanting to emphasize the "voidness" but from what I'm reading, 750 is not enough to satisfy the needs of those who were using the sims for what you say the original intent was. Maybe that limit needs to be revisited.

I've read over 60 pages of this thread, for several hours, and its been quite some time since I have seen any posts from any of the Lindens. I think there have only been 3-5 at all, and those were much earlier in the discussion.

As a result, we have people asking the same questions repeatedly, with no answers forthcoming. And we have people getting frustrated, and sniping at each other a little bit too. A regular appearance from a Linden, commenting on the discussion and ANSWERING some of the more frequent questions, would go a long way to settling things down in here, and making it as least appear that they are listening to us, and trying to answer our questions.

And Lindens? If you don't have an answer, please at least just pipe up and say so, so that we know you are still paying attention. Unless, of course, you aren't. I'd like to think you are, though.

Sire Phillip give a response? You surf your content is Linden Labs. We the beach crowd do not need you. We have done the numbers and they work for us regardless what happens. So tough luck sucker. Next time read the TOS before you play….muahaha.

After the original announcement and my ensuing disenchantment with SL, I spent a good bit of time between then and now on both osgrid and openlife.

I ran in to a few SL people that were looking around for the same reason.

I think if you have a business motive, it's too early. If you like to explore virtual worlds, like to create things, like to build something from the ground up, you can have a lot of fun.

osgrid will let you connect your own server at no charge. Host your own region connected to their grid for nothing. Of course you have to support your own host.

They are both obviously beta (and sometimes alpha) experiences. Sometimes I'd freeze in mid-step (like that's never happened in SL...lol)

But, all of this openspace mess has started me thinking and I think at the very least, I will cut back on the money I spend in SL to save a little to buy something on one or more of the opensim grids. I don't think that would have happened if this openspace stuff hadn't occurred.

Dear Mr M.

I think we are all happy to finally get some news from LL.

Still the new requirements you are talking about remain evasive like in the following quote:


"2. If you want more than an Openspace, we will offer you the choice of moving to a new product called Homesteads that is intended for light use such as low density rentals. For existing Openspace owners we will phase in the price increase for this new product over the next 6 months. Homesteads will also have technical limits for avatars and prims, and eventually script limits as well."

What is a low density rental ? what are the technical limits ? i understand you may not have thought it over precisely but as you proved over this crisis that your level of dialogue was more a technical one than a "human avi" one i think we all should be very happy to have precise guidelines in order to be able to comply and / or decide if we have a OS or if we need to upgrade to a homestead.

thank you

I just fell of a cabbage truck and hit my head but this math is still fuzzy to me. This is just a money grab planned and very simple. Linden Lab knows they will loose a lot of clients and they simply don’t care. They did the poling numbers and they win. We are surfs in the great new world of Jack, pay or leave. Provision your ships and sail with us to the new word. It will be hard but we have the skill and in the end we will have a democracy were we the people are heard.

Jack is counting the numbers of people so pissed they will leave this game for open sims and figuring if he will still get his bonus. Correction his account ants are doing that. They report to him on the beach tomorrow when the sun gets warm.

The beauty of this scam is that he can report to the venture capital guys that his projected income is up 66% before everyone bails.

The best thing to do when you can’t sell real estate is raise the price and raise the tax on property owners.

Sire Phillip,

Wonderful pr job..AHAHAHA 102.075 views in a few days?

Get the bean counters together again.

Jack took his finger out of the dam.

Sire Phillip give a response? You surf your content is Linden Labs. We the beach crowd do not need you. We have done the numbers and they work for us regardless what happens. So tough luck sucker. Next time read the TOS before you play….muahaha.

How true and how many think the same. This noob will kill SL in his first year. The good news is that open Sims and the rest will grow faster from all the SL people who got burned by the Jack regime.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy9hQDT6fhI

Regarding the "A Letter to Second Life Residents"
Wednesday, November 5th, 2008 at 11:37 AM by: M Linden

You listened? Really? The people you listened to said:

Add homestead regions and limit their functionality [but don't tell anyone what those limits will be - surprise them later];

Raise their price in July 2009 to $125, because by then no one will remember what happened on the 5th of November; and

Reduce the functionality of Open Sims thereby making them unattractive to anyone, guaranteeing no one will purchase them thereby forcing people to purchase higher priced sims [and anyway, no one cares about water sports, or flying, educators, non-profits, or those foo foo forests and walking trails].

I did not see any suggestions like those in the forums, but you listened, so I must be mistaken.

We who have been branded rebellious, as we have respect for SL humanity, have been demonized by LL. But, time may well prove that we were the ones who should have been listened too.

Mr. Kingdon, and Jack, you are empowered to do what you will with your company, but don't insult our intelligence, your customers, and think we won't notice.

Remember, Remember the fifth of November.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Fawkes

Not sure what we are going to do, but my partner in Sl and I did decide we must downgrade to free accounts. Then will have to rent a much smaller mainland space or find somplace to be just enough prim to live on our paradise blanket.
Much less money will be invested in SL.......that's sad

Oceanna Sands

This price increase wont hurt the big players in the least...all they have to do is sell there homesteads as 1/4th of a full sims Sqm (approx 16300sqm) and increase their rent 12.50 per 1/4 rented out. and still make the profits they had before. It is really only the small owners that have been stuck with less than 4 OSS sims that really suffer here

I do applaude LL for giving the education sims and the void type sim owners a break.

But I still would like my question concerning credits for owners with less than 4 OSS that dont want their new product (homesteads) or their scaled back old product open spaces for light use water type sims at a reduced prim allotment answered....I am not the only one on this blog that has asked that question to no avail.

A lot of the limits are discussed in the KB article that M refers to. Did you read that?

(https://support.secondlife.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=4417&task=knowledge&questionID=5650)

Actually, there were some people who suggested making open space sims (for scenary) have a 1000 or less prims. It was in one of the office hour meetings (which was later posted somewhere by a resident - don't remember where). I don't agree with that number, but it was suggested by a resident.

And a lot of people asked for a longer time to absorb the price increase.

People also asked for multiple types. Although generally the suggestions I saw had more than 2.

Firelight

Have read and digested the latest song and dance from LL.
I am beyond disgusted. That is the biggest pile of egregious corporate BS I have had to scrape off my shoes in a long time.
1:
There is no hard evidence to date that the problems you are having with load is caused by the OS sims - and darn good evidence to suggest that it is self inflicted - please check your JIRAs on your buggy viewers. Since LL claims an inability to measure this load, your customers (as usual) are doing the heavy work here. Heck of a business model you have here M, get your customers to do your R & D, debugging, PR, Orientation, Infrastructure work.....and then stick it to them with huge price increases as performance of the product plummets.

2:
Some business owners have found that treating their customers with respect, and using Customer Service Models (google it) are an effective way to build customer loyalty. Playing very childish and transparently manipulative games with your Very Intelligent customer base (many of whom run the aforementioned successful businesses) is ultimately self defeating and will result in your well deserved failure. A good business school usually has many models of both types of business, perhaps a review is in order.

3:
Your customers are both recreational users and businesses whose customers are recreational users. We do not HAVE to be here, we are here for fun - that is your product. You are creating a fun and VERY experimental world model for people to play in. If your customers (or your customer's residents) are being made miserable constantly they will not come back. And your customers cannot run a business in a world with poor performance and worse business practices. The mistake being made by too many is thinking this is some sort of business service you offer. This is a game that some people are making a bit of money doing, and a couple may even scrape out a living for a while. If they work day and night to keep their residents well served. The current LL management is definitely not contributing constructively to that either.

4:
The Plan - Which is IMHO the original plan all along - and is an attempt to reduce the total number of OS sims on the grid in order to prop a poorly managed land market - and make up the difference on the backs of the residents (and taking no responsibility yourselves for your own mismanagement)... please note I am a resident of Caledon and this is specific to my friends and neighbors there who are affected by this price gouging.
hmmm....... $75.00/mo for 750 prims, not to be used for undefined "habitation" or rented. Yeah, I don't think so .

So the new product they were rolling out is the new "openspace", which is lower prims than the old "void" sims, with a 10 avatar limit and script and resource limits TBA......

The current product has been renamed the "homestead" and will maintain the 3750 prims, will still go up to $125/mo (but not until July - will step up in Jan to $95), with 20 avatar limit and script/resource limits TBA....

Or buy a Full sim....no change and won't even go there.

This fellow M is a true professional manager. He can take the most egregious BS, and make it sound completely reasonable and like he is doing you a favor. Until you do the math.

So for current OS lessors with no changes from LL or Des - price goes up a little in January and the rest of the way in July = so no real change in policy there. Plus now you get added avatar limits and other limits at LL whim. So this actually is a WORSE offer than the first one for us, as I read this.
I am most anxious to hear Desmond's take on it....

And since the evidence clearly indicates that the problem is not the one they purport to solve with this - we end up again with a dramatic price increase, usage limits, and no net increase in perfomance for the pain.

Please keep in mind this is my synthesis of the current wisdom out there....and most know far more on these subjects than myself.

750 prims is a ridiculously small amount! 1875, like the originale, makes more sense. I have been checking out the OS grid. Seriously. As much as I love SL.

My recommendations - as they are "listening" to the residents of SL

1.) Fire Jack Linden immediately
2.) Fire M Linden immediately
3.) Apologize to the Residents - all of them - immediately
4.) Give the people, like ourselves, who purchased the OS the product they bought and paid for - immediately
5.) Give residents who wish refunds on the OS those said refunds - immediately
6.) Hire a CEO and PR Manager with some experience and intelligence - immediately
7.)Discontinue insulting the intelligence of those residents of SL that didn't fall off the turnip truck this morning or who haven't the sense to realize when they are being royally screwed without so much as a slap on the butt and a "thank you ma'am" - immediately.

You are LISTENING ??? ..well then listen to this and the fact that the only people "listening" and "talking" here are the residents and not the executives of Linden Labs shows me the only thing you listen to is the cha ching of the cash counters.

They simply changed the name from "Openspace" to "Homestead," and charge exactly the same in the previous announcement, $125/month, 3750 prims, and added more specific restrictions:
* 20 avatars limit
* no malls
* no events
whereas there was no limit in the last announcement.

Then worst yet, they downgraded the "Openspace" from 3750 prims into 750 prims, 10 avatars for $75/month and they call this accommodating you?

What a joke!

That is yet another price increase beyond the last announcement.

Hey Jack! Let's have a mature adult conversation here...ok?

I bought the OS sims for a certain price with a certain amount of allowable usage. Even a first grader can do the math here and I'm quite sure I joined the adult version of Second life so we all must be adults.

I will pay only what I agreed to and only for the same allowable usage that I was told I would have when I purchased this product from Linden Labs. That's my final answer!

Linden Labs is getting the "Slum Lords" reputation. Years of neglect, faulty maintenance, rats and roaches (griefers), clogged drains (lag), ignored complaints by tenants (Don't forget we are customers!)...should I go on with the list? And now Lindens want to raise the rent while the slums get slummier! (Is that a word?)

I'm quite sure you understand my position here and if you were faced with the same decision that we are faced with, you would most assuredly come to the same conclusion.

I'm sorry, but I just can't see why Linden Labs would think this was an appropriate thing to do. So, if I don't get what I originally paid for and at the original price I agreed to then I will just close the entire Estate come January 2009.

Second Life WAS a good vision, but somehow, someway somebody lost sight of that vision.
Oh well.. C'est la 2nd vie!

750 prims?? oh c'mon!!

I bought at 3750 - I have kept 850 of those in hand and keep a constant watch on sim performance...

I have some small houses - not rentals - friends who lost their homes... four of us in all.

Since we are different time zones we are rarely on together.

By decreasing the prims on a product already paid for you will have the result you need - the same price increase... just fed in slowly. The same number will have to give up their open sims...

How you can change a product you have already sold... is beyond me. Like selling me a 3 litre car and then changing the engine to a 750 and expecting me to be pleased!!

Ah well - if I have to homestead I guess my once almost empty sim will now have to have rentals on it... not at all what I wanted or intended...

I've posted my thoughts on my blog.

http://minervan.wordpress.com/2008/11/06/hai-ll-rent-us-servers-pls-kthxbai/

Short - LL needs to create a "Community Server" product.

excerpt from my blog -

---

Here are my thoughts for a “Community Server” product I propose:

Offer a more reasonable pricing for renting out a whole server aimed for communities - which will make it impossible for the subleasing of Homesteads and single sims to be competitive with. Ideally, set it to the approximate rate that barons on the Mainland get, but extended to a whole server. Around 800 a month tier fees, currently. There is room to wiggle here on the price - but most importantly it must make the subleasing of the Homestead product unviable for land barons.

Restrict these servers to community building - that is, all the sims must be connected to each other, no floating them out on their own. Why communities you ask? Well, communities are the magic ticket to a healthy LindeX. People who rent in communities are more loyal, longer lasting tenants. They spend more inworld, they build content businesses that provide products for others to buy. LL wants to encourage this activity for their bottom line.

ONLY offer this solution to established accounts - set at least a 2-4 full sim minimum before being allowed to rent a full server.

Set a minimum number of full prim sims to be used on the server - at least 1-2 sims have to be full prim.

So the results I aim for are:

Encourage community building, so that we have more content related business over the LindeX.

Solve LL’s performance problems by letting large communties own their lag and deal with it.

Satisfy large land barons while discouraging community unfriendly rental policies.

Be competitive with current and future Opensim offerings, which do threaten the stability of Second Life.

These new conditions are more like being smothered with a pillow than beaten to death with a hammer but the final outcome will still be a dead product "homestead" sims at 125usd come July will make no economic sense whatsoever to anyone.

I am happy for those who will find a 750 prim SIM with 10 av limit usefull though but everyone else simply using the product supplied to its fullest will have to pay for LL short sightedness and poor communication.

It sounds reasonable Jack but its not.....just words...
Whats reasonable about an Open Spaces sim that has 750 prims when the one i have now has 3750. I paid in good faith and have kept in mind the Open Spaces requirements.
I love the open sim that i added to my main island and i have not over used it.
Guess u know u talk to intelligent ppl.....If you do as u propose you make the current $75 dollar a month Open Space .....void!!! 750 prims is unreasonable when we used to have 3750 for the same.

I live in the USS. United Sailing Sims, 180 sim community with 7 estate owners that all got together after years of negotiations as to prim and script limits as well as land usage. The resulted is the best sailing community in SL. They don’t make money here they rent lots to people who sail on full sims. The builds are in theme, and all of the great sailboat builders live here as well as some of the most talented builders and scripters in this world. We have regattas that attract real word world class sailors. Americas cup class, the best in the word. Now and then the void may be over used but we have 100+ open sims so that is not a legitimate issue here. This confiscatory price “tax” increase will cost the owners $4000 us per month! Now I don’t know anyone who would be able to just say ok it’s my hobby I will pay it. The talent and love in this community is what the multi player virtual world is supposed to be about. In the 4 yacht clubs in this area there are over 6000 members. People come here to sail, party get involved in the community. We raised more money for cancer research than any community in SL. This will all go next month after building it from 4 sims at the beginning. The work the talent the love of this will all be lost “here” because of greed.

The USS will survive but not in SL. We will provision our boats and sail off to the new world. Like the explorers of old we will prevail. We have the talent knowledge and will to make the new world our home.
And like all good sailors drop a buoy to warn other mariners of treacherous waters left in our wake.

It's also a homestead if you rent it out or put prims that look like a house on it.

This is better than the original scheme, but it still leaves people out. Right now, for example, I'm renting an OS sim with a little over 500 prims, have never had more than 2 avatars on it (that I'm aware of), and a few scripts. I don't mind script execution limits, don't have events, and don't want it to appear the classifieds. Sounds like an OS, right? Probably gets less use than "parkland", since I only log in a couple times a month.

Nope, my choices remain to rent a "homestead" (and pay more for the additional capacity I'm not going to use) or own a full sim (no sense in renting a full sim--the setup fee gets eaten up by the monthly cost soon enough).

"Residential" is not necessarily higher use than "parkland or ocean". The two are independent measures.

Sigh.