Open Spaces Announcement & Talk with M and Jack Linden

You get hurt, obviously. And I think that Linden Labs absolutely should have put more of a 'we screwed up, sorry' tone in all the announcements, because they did, and they NEVER provided the kind of guidance they claim they did, and they were clearly changing policy no matter what they now tell us. So, no, I'm not trying to tell you they did everything right by any means, I'm just objecting to the characterization of the announcements in the message I was replying to.

People in the UK do sleep, in fairness

Still, on a night like tonight, get the Pro Plus out. No? Then don't whine if your salaries need to take a dip to keep the company going.

Maybe now we're seeing why Cory had to go huh?

Oh, hell yes. In fact an ISP would sell you 'unlimited internet' and then surcharge you for using too much service and cut you off with no warning when you kept using too much service. They'd also do this with no announcements, with their definitions of "too much service" changing on a daily basis, and then start randomly throttling you and dropping connections on you even if you did stay under their undeclared cap. Oh, and they'd also start randomly injecting ads into your traffic, redirecting your connections through a transparent proxy that breaks software you'd been depending on for your business, and sell you service that didn't exist and try and fake it by pretending that your obviously lower class of service was really their imaginary higher quality one but they were "still having problems with it".

This is not to say that Linden Labs is handling it well, but this is a completely crazy comparison. ISPs routinely do things that make this whole mess, bad as it is, seem sweetness and light by comparison.

Wow, I go to bed, wake up and this is still going strong and STILL nothing from the elusive and wonderful 'M'?! I guess his PR speech team is taking their time trying to figure out clever words to reply, I really think he is the most unpopular number of staff now that has ever existed in my time here..you simply can't apply a bog standard business structure to something as unique as SL and expect to get away with it unscathed...maybe that's finally clicking in with him now. If you don't even know your own product and customer base well enough to correspond with them rather than talk down to them, it's time to go...and Jack..you must be one hell of a slow reader if it takes you all these hours to read and respond 'in the correct manner' to these people's posts.

I so agree with you and i tend to err on the side of M was talking Bull, why would the CEO want to get his hands dirty talking to us, he thinks hes far above us imo.

I just saw the part where Homesteads still can't be purchased without an existing island, and you won't let them be switched to another owner other than the billing contact.

lol is all I can say. lol.


So essentially all you're doing is renaming the existing product you released six months ago with no improvements and several decreases, but for double the cost?

lol.

In the UK, service providers have a fair usage policy. That means if they have a set usage and you go over it a little, they will not penalise you. If you continually go over it they will warn you so that you can pull back your usage or change your plan. If they look at your account and it is clearly being abused then they will cease the account. Thats called FAIR USAGE.

I was a fair user. Nothing I have ever done in SL can be construed otherwise. My two open sims were supposed to help with the tier on the main sim which supports a non profit making, PG sim that was being promoted in the UK as an educational portal. We had workshops in schools set up to show them Second Life and the building possibilities for the art students particularly. Our funding bids have gone down the drain - Linden Labs has so much bad publicity and they do not run fair policies. Our revenue stream was destroyed by the premature announcement. Linden can hike their prices and change their TOC at any time and there is little that we can do about it - except protest and leave.

That is what I have now decided to do.

I want to thank Linden Labs for the wake up call. My bill in Second Life has been in the region of $5,000 in the last six months. My inventory is certainly worth a packet! We made a great sim with over 500 visitors on some days.

What about this comparison:

Imagine you get a plan you can't refuse from your cell phone company. You buy the latest iPhone for $100 locked with a $30 monthly rate including 30Mb internet access.

All of a sudden, 2 months later, they announce that your $30 rate is going to be $50 and that they are capping your internet access to 5Mb, with the excuse that some folks were downloading movies on their iPhone when their plan was intended just for email. If you refuse the increase, you lose your $100 iPhone.

That is basically what LL is doing, and if any cell phone company did the same thing, there would be a huge outcry, they would lose customers and probably have lawsuits. At least in my country, they wouldn't get away with it.

Hmm, interesting. It seems to have been possible in the forum section for the first openspace discussion with Jack. Nevermind.

sounds like a reasonable alternative, guess I gonna check this out

Dear M and Jack, you are saying you've been listening, right? So how can you stick to that ridiculous $125 price tag when the one thing that has become overwhelmingly clear from all the discussions is that THIS. IS. WAY. TOO. MUCH!

Some have been saying that with this price tag, you need to add value to the product, i. e. more prims.

Others don't need more prims, but they need what is going to be called homesteads in the future at a more reasonable price.

There is clearly a demand for both: An "enhanced homestead" sim with, say, 6000 prims, priced at $395 down / $125 monthly, and a "regular homestead" sim with 3750 prims, priced at $250 down / $95 monthly.

There also is a demand for both of these categories of sims to be available as standalone products.

I'm not sure how high the demand for your new mere space filler sims with 750 prims really is, but I suspect unless you lower their price to, say, $40 monthly, they will be sitting on your shelves.

There is NO DEMAND for 3750 prim openspaces at the extortionate price of $125/month. Please read that sentence again. Memorize it. Stick it on your bathroom mirror.

Finally, I would ask you to take us a little more seriously. Trying to sell us the content of the original announcement again with some sugar topping in the shape of an extended transition schedule as a "compromise" doesn't exactly communicate any respect for our cognitive abilities.

I'd say that sounds like standard operating procedure for cellphone companies. Except if you refuse the increase you keep your phone, but you lose the service, and it's locked to the carrier so you can't switch, and you have to pay an extra $250 when they cancel their service for early termination (even though you didn't terminate it). Boy, you people are really coming up with bad examples. What's next, going to tell me that Microsoft would never terminate "Plays for Sure" or disable your OS if they thought it was pirated? Oh, maybe you'll tell me that insurance companies or mortgage services would never jack up your rates or payments by hundreds of percent. And get away with it.

THE FACTS

1.) LL Offer: Open Sim, 3,750 prims, $75 per month Tier Fee, no avatar or script limits.

2.) LL Excuse: Unanticipated increased usage.

3.) LL Change: Homestead Sim, 3,750 prims, $125 per month Tier Fee, avatar and script limits.

COMMENTARY

1.) LL wanted a huge influx of cash. LL made an enticing offer hard to refuse: open sims at a substantially reduced setup fee with twice the prims. Thousands of residents purchase these new sims. LL receives a huge influx of cash.

2.) LL did anticipate increased usage. It is unreasonable to believe that by substantially reducing the setup fee for open sims, that LL did not anticipate increased sales of new open sims. It is unreasonable to believe that by doubling the amount of prims, that LL did not anticipate an increase in usage on these new sims.

3.) LL can not handle the increased usage generated by the sale of the new sims due to the huge number of new sims sold and due to the increased usage on many of the new sims purchased.

4.) LL changes the name from Open Sim to Homestead Sim, increases the monthly Tier Fee from $75 per month to $125 per month, and places restrictions on avatar and script usage. LL anticipates that many residents will simply walk away from the new open sims purchased, thereby reducing usage.

ANALYSIS

1.) LL made an offer to residents they couldn't, can't, and won't deliver.

2.) LL keeps the cash generated by the new Open Sim sales.

3.) LL gives nothing back to the residents, instead increases the monthly Tier Fee and adds restictions on avatar and script use.

4.) LL has been greedy, dishonest, and is now arrogant by attempting to mislead residents by placing the blame on the residents.

LL is all Hat and no Cattle.

CONCLUSION

I want the deal offered and paid for. From time to time, I can accept reasonable increases in tier fees. But, I will not happily accept an unreasonable 66% increase based on deception.

-Cage
Co-owner of Whsipering Pines Estate
(one full sim and two open sims)

Yeah imagine being able to talk to the people running the show, and them be keen and eager and fresh. As if that would happen anywhere ...

They're saying they screwed up and they've been selling OpenSpaces at a loss for six months, and they can't keep doing it. The thing they've REALLY done wrong is they haven't come out and said "sorry, we screwed up". You have to read between the lines for that.

*sigh* maybe i was expecting too much... it didnt need to come from Jack if he needed sleep... i was just hopeing for something to show that our concerns would be and are taken seriously.

I have spent the last 1hr 18 mins scanning this thread and reading the announcement and I am disgusted at LL's "business" sense.

They say this is all down to what is best for their business. The residents ARE their business.

In RL, a few years ago a lot of people bought their homes from our local council. This was all part of an initiative, letting local people OWN instead of rent. Making things cost effective for everyone. A lot of people bought because a regeneration project was put in place which would improve the area.

2-3 years later the council decided that as part of this regeneration they would demolish a lot of houses.... including some of the ones they had sold and if people refused to move they had to pay a sum of cash.

sound familiar?

Difference here is, the council helped those who agreed to move, by giving them a % of the value of the home they were leaving in cash... moving them to a larger house in a better area if they so wished.... and paying their moving expenses including transport of furniture and decorating!!! This people still owned their new homes.

This cost the council a darn lot of cash, but it helped people to trust the local government and know that they were thinking of the RESIDENTS best interests.

The argument that stood was the one off sum that residents had to pay to stay. So after listening to the residents, the council decided to offer 2 options...

Stay with the same land, house etc... no payment to be made..

Stay, with extra garden land taken from the space created after demolishment... a small "purchase" to be paid for the extra land.


For those who rent... either move and get £2000-£5000 for moving costs, or stay at no extra cost for any extra land given.

Overall, the council realised... charging Residents was unfair. Without residents, there would be no need for a council and no income from rent and taxes....

I wasn't part of all this, since I lived in a different area. I had family and friends involved, and I learned, the council could do this because they had used a strong business strategy and created a saved up "fund" for the project from the excess left from rents and taxes.

LL should have kept a saved "fund" to cover the cost of these sims in the past. Now... they should offer more value for more cash, or like for like... i.e. Don't change it...
As an SL business owner (mine are very new and not even taking 1% of costs yet!) I do ensure I get low cost land and keep a little to cover extra costs and incentives (advertising, downtime for rebuilds etc etc)

An increase to $95 a month seems reasonable for the value we have now... It'd just be a usual (albeit still a little high) price increase, similar to what we have seen around the world recently. Prices go up... it happens but to $125 at any time soon is too high for the majority of residents.


As for offering less value for the same amount (openspace) and less value for more (homestead), that's not ethical at the least. I'm not fast to say illegal, as I'm sure LL has requested Lawyers look into this before announcing it... but it's not exactly looking at the best interests of residents.... who make up the business. Because after all is said and done, no residents, no Secondlife, No LL.

I know, the Linden ability to resist admission of screwing up in the face of overwhelming complaint is something US politicians need to take note.

I'm not sure how it can be 'at a loss' because we all know land prices are way too high in the first place. SL is pitched at the individual user but way out of the pocket of the individual, unless you happen to want to run a business here.

LL seem to completely forget that there are many different types of user in SL, and when you consider that the majority of people consider their SL costs as part of their monthly 'entertainment' budget, when you compare it to other online games/activities, it's probably the most expensive one out there.

Perhaps they ought to look at lowering their own running costs, instead of ramping up already inflated prices. Getting rid of an overpaid CEO who clearly hasn't got a clue how the product his company offers works might be a good start.

FYI everyone talking about going to Open Life Grid:

http://opensimulator.org

- same software, completely free. You can run it on your home computer and get 45k+ prims for zero a month. If you need to attach it to a grid, I suggest OSGrid (http://osgrid.org ) which is also completely free and is the grid that many of the actual opensim developers use. There's really no need to pay for another grid when the official one is free to use and attach sims to.

Argent you are actually confirming what many have said ... this was appalling business practice.

I saw a rerun of "Ramsey's Kitchen Nightmares" the other day where a badly badly failing restaurant was advised by their bank "put the prices up". 360 people paying £10 versus 0 people paying £20 = income.

They won't admit "Sorry we screwed up" any more. Those days are long gone. Besides, if they say sorry that's admitting some form of liability.

Your comparison to ISP holds water but also so does the Fair Usage Policy mentioned before. What has happened here is not fair usage. It's - as usual - punishing the little guys.

Well Jack & M, it looks like everyone one is still pissed off. And they are insulted that you think they are stupid enough to buy this crap you laid out here.

Man, wake up dudes. You are screwing the pooch in every available orifice.

The SL community is not as stupid as you think.

This thread is a testament to the fact that you have not come to a viable solution, and it's obvious to me that this new solution is actually worse than the original change you had intended to make.

You're NOT fooling everyone, just a few idiots who cannot see what is really going on here.

If these folks do file a class action suit against you, you are gonna have your balls in a ringer, and SL will fail. And I will be truly disappointed. because I'm a big fan of SL until you try to pull this crap on us.

Stop with the greed, and give us what we paid for. It's the right thing to do.

AND it's the ONLY smart move if you want SL to succeed.

I did stop reading hundereds of pages with comments, I think, most is said anyways and apart from some Lindens undercover (always remarkable in that role: Snowflake Fairymeadow), no one will fall for that "improvements".

But aside from "compromises", new ideas and other talking, there is a single fact untouched:

Linden and me made a contract, they sold me a sim with 3750 usable prims for 250 USD + VAT and a monthly fee of 75 USD + VAT, which is really costly anyways, compared to other hosting opportunities.

And you, Lindens, really believe you can change that mutual contract onesided in your favor and raise not only the monthly fee ridiculously, but even invent more and further limitations? Don't bore me with your TOS or similar, this will not stand the test of a court.

But that you will find out very soon, I think...

Succeed? How about "survive"?