Open Spaces Announcement & Talk with M and Jack Linden

The original announcement last week said they were going to raise the prices and still look into the overuse. They didn't define what acceptable use was, though. So, now they're defining it.

Firelight

So let me re-iterate what you said in your blog and knowledge base article:

a. All OSS's purchased for the use by two avitars to live on will be henceforth be refered to as a Homestead as of january 9, 2009.
b. The monthly tier paid for a Homestead increases in two increments to $125 US/month by July 2009.
c. January 9, 2009 all purchasers of OSS (now called Homesteads) will lose ownership of the Homestead (that they paid for) and the land will be put in the landowners name (the one who pays the tier to LL's).

What does this means to me:
On January 9, 2009 I will lose my land. The money that I paid indirectly to Linden Labs will be lost.

Linden Labs has decided
a. I am not allowed to own a Homestead because I do not own a full sim.
b. It will cost me 32,796 L$ plus landowners mark up (approximately 50%) that is approximately 49,194 L$ to rent the land.

I believe that the actions of Linden Labs in securing money from us indirectly and then recovering their product with out returning our money to us is considered theft not only by me but also by the US Justice System.

Do you really and truly believe Linden Labs is a moral and ethical company M?

Not even close ... if you did this in RL M you would have law suits leveled against you personally and Linden Labs would be defending its actions in criminal court.

Unfortunatley, I am not a citizen of California (or the US) because if I were I would pursue such action.

Sorry LL,

I have been naive enough to believe that u could come up with something like a serious and fair offer but even worse you really try to kid us with this screen smoking bla bla.

A moderate price increase to 95 bucks combined with 3750 prims and no avatar and script limits could have been such an offer ... and btw ... I did not see any apologize for the chaos and anger you created.

Go on like this and you are gonna walk alone very soon !

Thanks for the compromise on the OSR situation M and Jack. I for one am glad there will be agent and script limits for these regions as it would be unfair for the more unscrupulous in SL to have a cheap way to abuse them with camping, bots and clubs.

I do not believe this new plan to be unfair because as with any product, you always get more value when you buy the larger package (full region) and less when you buy the smaller size (OSR & Homestead). No where is the price for the smaller package ever adjusted equally to the larger one. You will always pay more for what you get with the cheaper products.

The transition you laid out is also fair and allows those in the business of OSRs to adjust their game plan accordingly. Yes it will be more expensive for those that have turned OSRs into homes, but just like the price increase for a full region in the past, it is justified by the added value associated with having a private landmass as compared to the alternative of mainland or a plot on a rental estate. The fact that so many people abandoned mainland and rental estates for their own OSR is proof of that value.

They did. If you want to convert a single OS to a full sim, it will cost you $750. (As opposed to the $1000 it would cost you to buy a full sim outright.)

Firelight

Originally Posted by M Linden
One thing I learned and others were reminded about in this process is that we have a very connected, passionate Resident base and we need to bring you into the dialog earlier, before putting forward these decisions.

I wholeheartedly concur. I have expressed numerous times that We the Residents need a collective voice to speak on our behalf in regards to issues just as these.

A representative board or council is long overdue, M.

I would strongly urge you to start some dialogue on this with interested parties ASAP, as it is so urgently needed.

Have you actually read the knowledgebase article? 3750 prims down to 750 to keep the price the same is technically a price hike.

The sims Linden Lab were only too happy to sell and ignore a guideline that wasn't a TOS agreement are still getting a whacking increase.

What is there to like unless you're extremely gullible.

We used to have "Town Halls". They stopped. Why? Because they couldn't handle how upset we got when they made dumb decisions. So they now hide, engaging with us as little as they can get away with.

Dear M and Jack,

i think one of the big problems is, that most of the users don't understand how the grid works, what kind of traffic each SIM keeps, how the communication with the asset server works, etc. Without this knowledge no one will understand, why you change the prices or you limit the resources for the new openspace SIMs. Maybe it's a good idea to explain this in simple words, without linking to kb or wiki pages. Use the resident language and not technician language, thats a good start. Like Einstein said "keep things simple as possible, but not simpler".

I've read also the blog and the new strategy for the prices. It's a good beginning, but not well elaborated. With this plan you raise the prices for real OS 4 times, accordingly to the prim limit. Here is my suggestion for a better price politics and more happy residents:

- real OS with light use only (water / forrest) and 750 prims for 50 US$
- homestead SIMs with 3750 prims 85 US$
- business OS with 7500 prims 125US$

I think this will cover all costs Linden Lab will have. I'm sure you want to make profit, but i think it's more important to keep existing residents happy.

The next thing you should work on, is the big bot problem in-world. They are using alot of bandwith for nothing, except to create traffic. Maybe a good way to start is to limit the connects from one IP to 5 users only. This will kill all the bot-farms at once.

Traffic is the next point you have to work on, because the traffic don't show how popular a place really is. Ok, you will loose 20.000 (or more) fake residents, but this will be a real improvement for the grid.

One last word about your PR. For a company like Linden Lab you have not a really good way to announce changes. You're dealing with people who build the Grid in it's spare free time. You can't talk and act with them like other company owners. Please keep in mind that Second Life wouldn't be that wonderful without the builders, scripters, designers.

Second Life made some big improvements since 2006. This is my second account, because i can't remember my first account details, but maybe it is already gone. I remember still the wednesday downtimes for 6 and more hours, many SIM and viewer crashes, ugly look and feel, horrible lag etc. But i also remember, that at this time were a way better communication with you (Linden Lab).

Don't kill all improvements with a bad price politic, with that you will anger all long time residents who build our and your world. Reinvest some money to your residents, think about a fair price plan. Please keep also in mind, that the financial desaster from the past weeks will soon effect all residents. We all will have less money for our hobbies. It's up to you what you want to have in Second Life: real companys only with no residents who brings life in, or a really good community, a "escape" for us. If you want the last do your best so that we can afford it.

My 50 cents only.

Meph

I just got an email from conceirge that they are changing policy on billing date conversion for OS. So lets see how this lines the pockets. Per the email


We now use average date of all the tier dates (before they were using earliest)


Love that......get's richer and richer all the time!!!


wow wow wow

Perhaps because they pay more? Mainland fees for a full sim [without estate tools mind you] are $195.00 USD per month. It seemed unfair when the "improved" OS with increased prims and low tier were introduced driving Mainland way down in value but heck, this is all about *your stuff* so of course seeing the previous model as being unfair to long time residents is out of the question, eh? [Remaining neutral here but had to post in reply to the above.]

I can prophecy this will be a renaissance of temp rezers. It takes only 49 prims or less for rezing an complete sim stuff and uses scripts with timers which are doing something all 60 seconds. Timers in vehicles working much more intensive.
On other hand i read from fearing of some OS owners who could loosing their doors in houses without scripts.

Furthermore, if sailing party using ocean sims for sailing, RP sims want the same rights. And i dont know if this is "light use" meaning.

OK at next point if scripts are limited, bots will also life a renaissance. Set a bot in center of sim and wear him trees, houses, skyscrapers...all what you want, 256 prims on every avatar spot. This will not count directly to sim resources or better said, an estate manager will not see this script and prim usage. And if avatar equipment will count into sim resources i see a new kind of griefing: You dont like your neighbor? Want to denigrate him to linden? Then wear high lag scripts in mass of tiny prims and visit the sim.
I have seen "shoes" which have more prims as my whole space station.^^ And a prim will be a prim, unimportant if it is a pin or a skyscraperwall, all will be using sim ressources.

You see, this will be hard to define. A technical automation seems to be not very easy to implement. And proofing the sim using manually? This will cost many new employees.
But perhaps you will find a way.

Yes, well you took that out of contex as so often happens. I didn't say Blue Mars, Nurien or Mycom would give me more for my money. I said, running my own virtual server and connecting to OSGRID would since their would be no teir for 16 sims and a lot more prims available.

I know Blue Mars, Nurian and mycom will cost more but then it is 10X more powerful than SL and the avatars look like really people with the gestures and movements to match.

I would gladly pay more for more.

I am not willing to pay more for less.

That is the option being given to us by Linden Labs

..and when they did exist, they were so lag ridden you couldn't see a thing, which usually meant tp'ing in and standing on someone's head for the whole session ...no doubt that's our fault too though, **I'm surprised they didn't charge an entrance fee - that would have made things much better!


** (takes no responsibility if they actually start doing this!)

I honestly think some people just don't engage their brains before opening their mouths all they see is that LL has saved them lol

Had there not been bait over the last few months to get openspaces, I wouldn't be so upset with this. Had they simply done this a few months ago instead of halving the cost and doubling the prims to woo people in, this would have made reasonable sense.

But...

...they didn't. In my opinion, they advertised what they most likely at the time knew they could not sustain, AS IT WAS BEING (AB)USED AT THE TIME, at the lower rate with twice the prims. They waited until they reached some plateau that they were looking for, or raised some target amount of capital. Now, we're being offered a new version of what we bought, far less attractive, much less of an investment, take it or leave it.

After such an obvious effort to sell these as they were, changing them now is unethical. They could have been discontinued, another product offered for future sale, and previous commitments kept to. But, like everything else we've seen from LL, it is take it and like it, or go elsewhere. I am happy that the latter option is looking less bleak as time goes on.

So many times I have been laughed at for leaning on the "reality" of these virtual things. Buying land that doesn't really exist? Buying "virtual" clothes, virtual planes, boats, clothes, money? "Are you nuts?", they'd ask. I always held my head up and had faith in, at the very least, a spirit of self-interest on the part of LL. Faith that they would keep our confidence in what we buy if for no other reason than keeping our willingness to invest in their endeavors.

That was a mistake, and one I won't make again. I wish everyone who does luck and my good will. I won't be leaving SL, but the financial risk I will undertake here will be nil. My investment will match what appears to be LL's commitment to the people who create the content that REALLY sells their virtual land. What spirit I had to contribute financially to a user-created frontier is gone, it's not our world, it is LL's.

The point is: if a Homestead sim with 3750 prims and the "TBD" limits is acceptable performance-wise, and an Openspace sim with 3750 prims and without the "TBD" limits isn't, then what has price got to do with it ?

Talk with M and Jack ?..... errm ok M lets see you talk .

Seems we are doing all the talking while your off scratching your balls while standing at the coffee machine trying to charm some inturn into a store room for a quickie


where are you oh wise one ?

This is not a talk with .... this is a talk to to the hand we ain't listning .


If your think post and duck will make all this go away ...Think again...This ain't AOL buddy ... i don't give a crap if your on a million bucks a year ... we are you customers .... feedback !

Can you clarify the situation re transfer of ownership. Looking to transfer ownership of 4 openspace (which will now need to be homestead) islands to a US owner to remove the VAT liability for our US renters. Yes they will still be paying an increase but this may soften the blow. Does transferral of ownership incur a fee ?

So, I bought my Open Space sims with the agreement that I would be using a maximum of 3750 prims, and I would pay $75 a month in tier in return. Now, I am told that I will have a maximum of 750 prims for $75. per month. Since this agreement has been broken, can I have a refund please? Thank you.


(My mother was right..If something looks too good to be true, it probably is)

Open Spaces Announcement & Talk with M and Jack Linden

Talk with M and Jack ?..... errm ok M lets see you talk .

Seems we are doing all the talking while your off scratching your balls while standing at the coffee machine trying to charm some inturn into a store room for a quickie


where are you oh wise one ?

This is not a talk with .... this is a talk to to the hand we ain't listning .


If your think post and duck will make all this go away ...Think again...This ain't AOL buddy ... i don't give a crap if your on a million bucks a year ... we are you customers .... feedback !


EDIT : yeah double post ...so what ? ...it was a mistake , Unlike LL at least im admitting to mine !

I second this, REFUND please.

As i said before better but not good enough.

First off, give up on the 125$.
you'll drive your customer base off SL before then. And you are no longer the only game in town. to be blunt there are grids that are int ehri betas that are cheaper and more stable. In 6 months you will be directly competing with them. and if you keep running your company half***ed, you'll lose.

Secondly: you lied.
You siad you lsitened, but you didn't. And you took us for fools. do you really think we will accept your argument that is contrary to what you personally have oth told us in the past? nor that we cant do simple math? There was never a restriction on builds on OS sims and you know it. Just as you knwo there is no way to jsutify taking the prims on a 75$ a month server to 750. or charging 125$ for a sim with lss then 4000 prims.

youre already over priced. most other grids and online simulators of any kind are a mere fraction of the price you charge.

Here is a doable compromise we, a number of the residents of secondlife are offering.

We will accept a 95$ tier price capped at one year and then with at msot a 10% increase a year IF you can prove its needed for more then padding your bonuses. Minimum acceptable avitar limit is 25.

what you promose for the $75 level take and double the prims, and tripple the permitted avis.


these are what we suggest would be good for SL and good for LL.

in the mean time our efforts are stepping up.

Ive already talked to some of the officers of several corperations that do business with LL, bring to thier attention these hikes and the laughable "compromise" you offered. They weren't pleased. especially when i showd them your competitors prices. Oh and mentioned boycott...

have a nice day.

Will you pay more for less?

I didn't say "they will cost more", I said "watch out for their terms of service".

None of those supposedly superior alternatives will provide as much as Second Life does.

No user content.

None.

You might as well "move to" Sony Home or XBox Live.

I read the announcement and then thought about it for a while, without reading other's opinions to taint my initial train of thought.

My conclusion is this:

This isn't a large change from the previous openspace policy at all. The effect is exactly the same, except that the time to impliment the price increases has been lengthened.

M Linden is trying to take the marketing approach of defining the issue away using semantics: he is saying that they are introducing a "new" product (homesteads) which is actually what openspaces currently are. The actual new product is given the name "openspace" instead. This reversal is backwards and smells of Orwellian doubletalk. It's also incredibly insulting to residents, and so transparent that even the casual onlooker can see what is attempted.

Fact: In the second blog post, Jack Linden said that the large majority of Openspaces are not being used for their intended purposes. This would define that large majority of people as "homestead" product users. So, the large majority would see the fee increases.

What is someone wants to downgrade to the "new" openspace product with 750 prims? They're going to have to either destroy nearly all of their build and not use it remotely how they did. The alternative is to either pay out the new tier increases, or get out of the openspace.

Some people may buy this reasoning at the present, but it won't last. This is nowhere near an acceptable, fair solution for residents and you will see that in continued protests, release/sale of land, and slowing business.

----------------------------------

A viable solution

This represents the second time Linden Lab has dropped the ball on this issue. Please do not make it a third. There _IS_ a way for both residents and LL to win in resolving this issue. At the same time, the wounds residents feel could be healed and Linden Lab could restore some of its lost trust.

Using Linden Lab's rationale, the reasoning is this: openspaces have been used in unexpected ways that increase strain on SL as a whole and on simulators. Increasing prices is one way to correct this by forcing people out of openspaces or possibly allocating less openspaces to a server. However, this comes at great cost to residents, trust in SL, and the economy of the grid as a whole. Instead, LL should be using innovation to approach this issue, by developing new technology and optimizing the way SL works.

Developing new technology: Linden has already started on this. For example, a switch to HTTP assets would make SL run more smoothly and reduce bandwidth usage. The establishment of LLNet would also increase efficiency and cut costs. (http://blog.secondlife.com/2008/10/28/ongoing-updates-from-the-grid-from-fj-linden/). In addition, other things could be implimented such as better server load balancing, increasing cashe limits and the way it works, and other means. Doubtlessly there is potential for large improvements (and large savings).

Optimizing the way SL works: this involves fixing bugs and issues that are in the current code. http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-8503 describes a major bug that could be responsible for a sizable increase in strain on the asset servers.

These approaches have the advantage of 1) retaining current prices for products for residents 2) not only cutting costs, but bettering how SL works and the experience of using SL. However, there is another huge windfall: if this approach is taken instead, we could see the massive Openspace movement of thousands of active residents instead shift to a movement to make SL better. Residents who are professional programmers or technologically minded could tear through the code to look for bugs and issues, or serve as a think tank to come up with new solutions. Residents who are less technologically minded, if given the right tools, could serve to bug and problem test the use of the platform.

Linden Lab has 250+ employees. If they take this approach, they could add to that force THOUSANDS more active residents who do work for free because it is in their best interest to do so. If many residents see that helping to bug test and help with ideas a few hours each week could help keep THEIR prices low, they would be more than willing. That has been seen in this OS movement: lots of people devoting loads of time and energy towards something they believe in. And of course, residents would also see their own experience improve by helping Second Life.

Imagine how this could improve customer trust, communication, and community. Managed correctly, Linden could show how residents can affect SL in a tangible, meaningful way. In release notes or blog posts of new features and fixes, they could give numbers for how many people were involved in the fix or feature's development. The level of involvement could go way beyond the PJIRA.

Linden Lab, please consider this solution. It doesn't have to be permanent; Linden Lab could simply try it for a few months to see how this approach works, and if it ends up not fulfilling needs, then the price increases could be reconsidered.