One thing I notice from Jack's replies here, is his total lack of acknowledgement of all the people who are stating the facts for what they really are..... Whats wrong Jack? Got no balls to answer the hard questions, or are they just stuck in your throat thinking "crap, they woke up to us"????
Lindens..you thought you had it bad with the first announcement....the reponses in those posts were ones of discontent. Now, what I feel reading through here, is utter RAGE.... total, unmitigated RAGE....
The honeymoon is over Jack... Openlife... Opensim.... Hello Avatar....Opengrid.....All coming along very fast...all developing user bases.... all rapidly developing their physics and economic systems. DONT be thinking we have nowhere to go....or that we WONT.
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Open Spaces Announcement & Talk with M and Jack Linden |
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Dear Misfit
Registered User
Join date: 16 Jun 2006
Posts: 25
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11-05-2008 12:55
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Mariana McBride
Open sim abuser
Join date: 23 May 2008
Posts: 26
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11-05-2008 12:55
¿So we will pay now or in july 66% more for the same resourses but a diferent name?
I would like to write how i feel after one week wating but my english is poor and i am sad now. |
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Carl Metropolitan
Registered User
Join date: 7 Jul 2005
Posts: 1,031
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11-05-2008 12:56
/me sniffs... Mmm.. I love the smell of sarcasm in the afternoon. I'm not being sarcastic. I really work in marketing and I am really impressed. Professionally speaking, this is really good work. _____________________
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MarkByron Falta
Just an average bird
Join date: 16 Jun 2007
Posts: 168
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11-05-2008 12:57
Will these new "Homestead" sims be available to those who don't own or want full sims? If not, that needs to be part of the deal.
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Cappy Frantisek
Open Source is the Devil!
Join date: 27 Oct 2006
Posts: 400
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11-05-2008 12:57
The way I see it is LL is trying to give you all what your asked for. Now you say it's not good enough? They could decide not to work with you at all!
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Jayson Dorn
Registered User
Join date: 13 Oct 2006
Posts: 360
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One thing you should add
11-05-2008 12:57
I could live with this compromise if you did one thing. Allow people caught up in this to convert their sims back if they wish during that same time frame at no charge.
You insist on wanting to blame this on people abusing open space sims when it is LL that changed the product doubling the prims at the same time. Are we really to believe you didn't expect people to build out to the available prims? and that you lump everyone that did into the class of "irresponsible citizens" for doing so? And then cover that all by saying we told you they weren't there for that purpose? Come on let's be realistic here, you don't raise the prims like you did and not expect that to happen. I didn't jump into OS sims but it was to the point that I couldn't rent any land because that was all people wanted, which cost me money. So I started converting them, which cost me money again, and now your wanting us to foot the bill once more to convert them back because it is very unlikely people are going to pay that price. I think you should really reconsider that as I believe it was your changes that caused this fiasco and as such the financial burden should not be once again placed on the shoulders of those people who have partnered with you for years and helped you build the successes you enjoy today. |
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Bid Messmer
Registered User
Join date: 13 May 2007
Posts: 13
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hypocrisy and false advertising.
11-05-2008 12:57
Originally Posted by Bid Messmer incase someone missed it, yeah, they sure do. http://jira.secondlife.com/secure/attachment/19935/void+sims+used+in+Nautilus.gif Yes, I did miss that.. Wow.. All the Nautilus openspace sims exceed the new rules.. I guess that's good news for the people living in that area, tho - LL is going to have to upgrade them all to homestead sims. so, if LL is going to use "Open Spaces" in a manner that exceeds what they intended, that to me qualifies as false advertising. How about that full on moon base you guys had up on official LL land that came within 300 prims of the limit, tons of scripts, etc. Someone considering getting one of your sims may look at that and say "wow, I can do all this with a sim that's only $75 / month! sign me up" convenient after all the attention it got you guys came back and switched it to a full sim to avoid accusation, but more than a few of us saw it, took pictures of it. |
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Alvari Decosta
Registered User
Join date: 9 Jun 2008
Posts: 37
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Jack? M?
11-05-2008 12:58
Where are u? i thought this was a talk with YOU BOTH! Or u went to rest already? Did u went home already? Home u bought with OUR money!
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Jini Hammerer
The green chick
Join date: 22 Jul 2007
Posts: 196
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11-05-2008 12:58
I'm not being sarcastic. I really work in marketing and I am really impressed. Professionally speaking, this is really good work. self distruction often is. |
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Jazz Rozen
Registered User
Join date: 31 Jul 2008
Posts: 11
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Where did you go?
11-05-2008 12:58
Gee I ask Snowflake a question and she disappears?
I will ask a again in case she missed it. Snowflake, just curious, do you own any OSS? Do you own any full sims? If you own a full sim and the tiers were increased by 66% am I to assume you would just write it off to entertainment? I cannot wait to see your responses when your tiers are increased 66%... but I wont be as insensitive and uncaring as you have been over others suffering. not a personal attack just trying to understand your logic. |
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Lucinda Bulloch
Registered User
Join date: 2 Nov 2007
Posts: 33
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one point
11-05-2008 12:58
I agree with the homestead idea as this commits you to supporting them for residential use, the jump from 95 to 125 will cause a problem, could this not be done over stages, also how are you going to police light use, automatic things like av limits and script limits wont help as i am sure it will take about 5 mins for someone here to work a way round it plus somtimes we except lag if its a big party's at home for birthdays and such.
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Mariana McBride
Open sim abuser
Join date: 23 May 2008
Posts: 26
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11-05-2008 12:59
This is what i call deep solutions
lol 66% more for the same resourses but a dferent name... I was wating for a real answer.... |
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Alexis Voight
Registered User
Join date: 20 May 2007
Posts: 2
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11-05-2008 12:59
Its actually briliant if you think about it. There are four options: - people continue to use reduced spec OS. Great, now you can have more sims on a server because they are so lightly used (remember, the servers were configured for 4 x 3700 prims, not 4 x 750). Which means higher margin. - people upgrade 4 OS sims to a full sim. Fine, revenue is not affected and margin isn't either. With some luck you may even get people to pay the extra 250 if they have less then 4. - people upgrade to Homestead. This has the specs of the original OS sims (the one's you undoubtedly used for your business case when you launched OS) but a higher price. The higher price means the same server will now bring in more revenue. Great, same costs and higher charge = higher margin. - people abandon OS sims (which I think many will do). Sims that were recently purchased at 250$ a piece. Short term this means revenue loss but it means the servers have been paid for and can now be used for either mainland expansion or new private sims. In both cases this brings in one time fees for hardware that has been paid for already. And once these servers are all back in use tier revenue will be back to the same levels as well. I have to say I'm impressed, a plan that just has no downside to LL is presented as something that was created because they listen to their customers... DAmn At Last somebody having eyes fully open and intellectually brilliant. Nothing to tell more, you have said all needed Alexis |
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Denver Hax
Registered User
Join date: 25 May 2007
Posts: 1
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Perhaps you ought to consider a change of mindset
11-05-2008 12:59
LL seems to forget a very important point in all their dealings here...
They call us 'Residents', maybe because its easier to say that what we really are, Customers. We are your Customers LL, if you start calling us that perhaps you will get a grip on what that really means to a business. You want to make money fine thats the nature of a business, but if you have no customer trust that may become hard, and LL has lost a lot of goodwill and trust over this. Please change your mindset and recognise this fact. |
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Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
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11-05-2008 12:59
I could live with this compromise if you did one thing. Allow people caught up in this to convert their sims back if they wish during that same time frame at no charge. _____________________
Argent Stonecutter - http://globalcausalityviolation.blogspot.com/
"And now I'm going to show you something really cool." Skyhook Station - http://xrl.us/skyhook23 Coonspiracy Store - http://xrl.us/coonstore |
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Josselin Looming
unhappy resident
Join date: 10 Jun 2008
Posts: 53
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11-05-2008 13:00
I like the fact that a compromise was reached, but a few questions remain. These new "Homestead" regions cost more. Do we get more for paying more? More prims? Higher limit of avatars, scripts, etc.? The reasoning being, I would be willing to pay up to $100 a month for what an OpenSIM gets, but any more than that ($125) would warrent residents to recieve additional benifits from the added cost. Otherwise it is worthless, and the complaining/protesting from residents will only continue. Also, when can we expect Homesteads to be openly availible? I'm jumping on the opportunity to get one this December if possible, and only if the cost gives benifits. To answer the previous question... Habitation –noun 1. a place of residence; dwelling; abode. 2. the act of inhabiting; occupancy by inhabitants. 3. a colony or settlement; community: Each of the scattered habitations consisted of a small number of huts. So what LL is saying, is that if you or anyone else is using the land as a place for their avatar(s) to live on, it is technically a homestead. no we get even less Homestead regions are for quiet residential or light commercial use. They are not intended for events, malls, or other high-impact uses. When new changes go into place, they will support 3750 prims and 20 avatars, and will likely also have script limits. |
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Zinbaco Kattun
Registered User
Join date: 19 Aug 2007
Posts: 29
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11-05-2008 13:00
¿So we will pay now or in july 66% more for the same resourses but a diferent name? I would like to write how i feel after one week wating but my english is poor and i am sad now. your english is good Mariana - and we are all sad. The 66% more is for the same prim count but lower avatar count and a yet undisclosed scipt limit. so not quite "the same". |
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Ciaran Laval
Mostly Harmless
Join date: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 7,951
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11-05-2008 13:00
What the heck does "habitation" mean, in Second Life? I honestly don't understand how they can enforce as vague a restriction as that. Oh come on you're nitpicking. If you live under water you'll probably get away with it, if you have a house in the middle of your "park" you won't. |
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Pantaiputih Korobase
Registered User
Join date: 8 Apr 2007
Posts: 41
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cancel
11-05-2008 13:00
I will cancel my premium account at it's next due date except I leave before or things improve in terms of prices and/or performance
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Alisha Matova
Too Old; Do Not Want!
Join date: 8 Mar 2007
Posts: 583
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11-05-2008 13:00
Gee I ask Snowflake a question and she disappears? I will ask a again in case she missed it. Snowflake, just curious, do you own any OSS? Do you own any full sims? If you own a full sim and the tiers were increased by 66% am I to assume you would just write it off to entertainment? I cannot wait to see your responses when your tiers are increased 66%... but I wont be as insensitive and uncaring as you have been over others suffering. not a personal attack just trying to understand your logic. please don't feed the trolls thank you |
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KevinM Vollmar
Registered User
Join date: 2 May 2007
Posts: 8
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11-05-2008 13:01
We will still be paying the original amount by July.... Jack and M... you have achknowleged that ppl are using sims as homes, the main guestion i have is.... now that you have made this extra class of sim, can we get them from LL direct without having to own a full sim!? Whats changed? Original announcement from Jack: OS 3750 Prims, 100 avis, no script limits - Price increase 125 a month tier 375 Setup fee M's New "Better Deal" - Fancy new name "Homesteads" 3750 prims, 20 avitar limit, undisclosed script limits - Price increase 125 a Month, 375 Setup fee. All while smoke screening with 75 a month void sims that cant even be used for their intended purpose (10 avis, 750 prims, severe script limits) Just try and have a sailing event under those circumstances! More I think about it the more irritated I get. We have just moved from a simple price increase to M's "HAHA, foolish lemmings, lets give em less and still charge em the same increase. That will teach them to complain!" Shakes head.. do you people at the labs REALLY think we are this stupid? |
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Alexis Voight
Registered User
Join date: 20 May 2007
Posts: 2
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11-05-2008 13:01
They are letting you convert 4 OS back to 1 regular sim for no charge up to Jan 2009. Where did you have read that??? |
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Ann Otoole
Registered User
Join date: 22 May 2007
Posts: 867
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11-05-2008 13:01
Will these new "Homestead" sims be available to those who don't own or want full sims? If not, that needs to be part of the deal. Concur. The name homestead implies this to be the case. Therefore if we cannot buy one of these by ourselves without owning a full region first then the name needs to be changed to "mid range" and leave the word "homestead" out of it. |
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Dear Misfit
Registered User
Join date: 16 Jun 2006
Posts: 25
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11-05-2008 13:02
The way I see it is LL is trying to give you all what your asked for. Now you say it's not good enough? They could decide not to work with you at all! Cappy...have you READ the proposal? How about the first proposal? Tell me what the difference is between the two....no...wait...let me tell YOU. The difference is, they have introduced a new product that costs almost 3 times what the same prim count costs anywhere else....they have renamed "OpenSpace" to "Homestead", and STILL jacked the same price increase...EXACTLY the same price increase...that solicited the original revolt. They ARENT giving us what we want..... get privy to some of the conversations that have taken place between land owners and the Lindens.... They were asked for a reduced product at a reduced price..marginally....half the prims, 2/3 the cost... instead, what they give us is 1/5 the prims at the same cost, or a price increase with RESTRICTED FUNCTIONALITY..... This offer is not only as bad as the first one..its worse...rather than just a 66% price increase, its a 66% price increase WITH reduced functionality. Class action anyone? |
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WaL Krugman
Registered User
Join date: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 38
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M???
11-05-2008 13:02
M!! are you sure you are a businessman??? a 5th grade student would have done much better than this...
no doubt you will end up like one of the guys in the link below, if you kept running the business this way ...... GL http://s358.photobucket.com/albums/oo21/ClayEnterprise/?action=view¤t=LA_RECESION_EN_USA.flv |
