Open Spaces Announcement & Talk with M and Jack Linden

Yes it would be useful, but think about it, the only way to make sure you don't interfere with other peoples frametimes is by assigning parts of what's available per sim.
So 22.3 ms before lag hits you in the head, spread over 12 sims, that is less than 2 ms a sim to handle the physics, the scripts and the agents.( and this is a best case scenario, sharing a core will have other disadvantages for sure) Most people I know will use that time single handed, in an empty sim. LL thought they were smart by spreading the load over 4 sims, it didn't work out, at all. Too bad, nice try, they could have acted a bit sooner, bad bad LL!

Yes I would like to see prices at the same rate they are right now forever. I would start payments on my OS again. But it's not the case, I moved on and can't be that bothered. LL has done worse in the past.

small note: Argent ment SL as a whole is a luxury item, not OS, at least that's what I understood.

*edit* Argent beat me to it)) well at least I got it right hehe

Correction - 3-4 sims, depending on whether they go along with the 3-homestead-per-core deal. Remember, we're talking about 22ms per core, not 22ms per computer.

So you can expect *four* moderately loaded avatars before scripts get bad, instead of just one.

I was replying to AC's demand for 12 low prim sims per core)), but you hit the nail on the head, OS is for four people at once, as long as you don't build anything or have a neighbouring sim . A shame to have 750 prims available if you can't use them without kicking out a person, let alone 3750 prims you can't use hehe

*edit* this is only the case if the sims are throttled, imagine 12 sims unthrottled, one lucky son of a gun who shares a core with 11 people with manners. We had a hard time finding 3 of them on our chip.

We are on page 175.....and lots of good points from people against the new open space policey. Very good points. So what will it be.....It's impossible to not listnen to the people bcs the points are too good. So be creative. Do the new policey for new open sim owners and keep the old policey for the owners who owns already an open space sim. As simple as it can be. But is time to let you hear now.

Kind regards,
Net.

Oh, no, that's crazy. It's possible you couldn't launch 48 instances of the SL server software in one server's RAM, even if you had ZERO prims in each sim.

If Linden starts to impose script limit, it will be the end of SL.

The problem is that most residents have no control over the scripts in their objects when they buy them. Because the old LSL is so limited in memory space (16K) that a lot of scripters have to get around that by breaking their script code into multiple scripts, and use internal communication between scripts to get around the memory limit problem.

So, in effect, Linden created this resource usage mess, not only in forcing scripters to proliferate in scripts unnecessarily but also demand on communication resources between these scripts to get things done.

So it is not surprising that you will find 10 or 20 scripts living inside a vehicle, when different parts of the vehicle have to communicate to each other. This is not an abuse by the user or scripter, it is the necessary evil created by the inefficient LSL limits put on the script. Although mono eliminated this memory limit to 64k, most of the scripts in existence in SL are compiled in LSL.

If Linden is putting restrictions on scripts in a parcel, it is penalizing not just the resident owner of the parcel, but all the existing scripters and content creators, because the customers will complain at the scripter creators for breaking the script count limit, but not Linden itself.

This would have a devastating effect on the entire SL community, from scripters to content creators to residents to owners of the parcel.

Please do not add more restrictions on our creativity. If you do that, it will nail the coffin shut for everyone, not just the Openspace owner, but EVERYONE.

Thank you for listening, if you were listening at all, Linden.

This whole forum thread is a joke to LL:

/352/14/292421/2.html#post2218779/352/14/292421/2.html#post2218779

Zee Linden Linden Lab Employee, Join Date: Sep 2006, Posts: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ciaran Laval
Does this mean the price rises and changes are set in stone? If it does can you ask someone to have the decency and good manners to actually say this.
Ciaran - thanks for your message. We did change the pricing structure from Jack's original post in a post that Mark made. We are not planning to make further changes to the pricing in the post that Mark made, so for now, those are final.

I'm not nearly sure how the scripts are handled by SL, but I do know this:

the script throttling is already used now, on normal sims. Well not scripts seperately, but everything combigned. Open your staistics tab (ctrl shift 1) and without a MASSIVE overload on the sim the frametime will be 22.3, that's throttled, that's the point where scripts will be put on hold, that is what we call sim lag.

The limit people, including me, are talking about is the same thing as that, only because there are 4 OS on one core, the 22.3 needs to be split in 4, or one person can use all the power of the chip leaving 3 people with a mess.

also, scripts talking to eachother and multiple scripts in an object don't neccecarily mean a high load. An idling script takes 0.001 ms out of 22.3 available, so virtually nothing. Some people like to use a listener on the chat channel (ch 0), so every script using that will have to filter all chat for commands, resulting in a high load, this is not the same as internal messages.

putting 3 homesteads on a core sounds like a good idea, leaves some time for each of them for throttled use, without disturbing eachother.

ps. if you want the technical details, don't ask me, ask argent, he knows this stuff through and through. ( not only him though, but he seems to be around often )

Finished. Ze CFO has spoken. The last set of pricing changes for Openspaces are final. Either u see the value in what they offer or u don't; either u trust LL as a company or u don't. In either case, it's fairly pointless to vent so much energy into this here vacuum.

If like me, u don't see the value and the trust is gone, then the most effective way to motivate change in a company's behaviour is thru their bottom line. Therefore, I personally got rid of my land in SL and will not spend any more of my money in SL. I will roam around homeless like in the early days while I await SL's competition to rise to the occasion and tap into their hungry ready-made market. SL will endure like Microsoft...but an SL-like "Google" will no doubt emerge )))

This forum thread for me has answered that age old Koan: "What is the sound of one hand clapping?"

A deafening silence.

And you're playing stupid semantic games to make the situation seem fine. Who cares about other companies mis-doings etc ... this is the one affecting us right here. Not US gas co?!?

Hey its a free world, don't read my answers for all i care.


We been through that 10 pages ago. If you can't protect it, work at assisting users in preventing the thieves reselling it in your platform - as opposed to keeping it easy for the thieves to resell it in your platform. For the final time : Its not about stopping it being copied (which is the not possible part) ... its about putting in methods to control/remove the stolen content when it is.
Read that, understand that, and move on


Not while its free.


I'M raising melodrama!? You're the only comparing this to your life-story.

Try keep things relative ... it's not me thats been trying to compare this to real life-and-death situations : as I said earlier : "Well, you can dream up any sort of atrosity. And its impressive seeing you compare atrosities like that to this - they may have some similarities.... " ... ie ... those aren't relative to this.

Relatively-speaking (ie. as compared to similar service provider actions) this is about as bad as it gets.


Never-the-less, you have you opinion of the situation and I mine. And other theirs. Good luck.

There's been a script limit in the sims for a long long time.

Everyone who is talking about going to ExitReality or Realms or Blue Mars SHOULD care.
You're the one who started talking about people being burned alive.
No, "as bad as it gets" online is when a company shuts down and leaves everyone in the game adrift, or when a company deliberately breaks content to promote their own, or when a company really does terminate a service and replace it with an incompatible one, or when a company starts secretly installing malware and trojan horses on customers computers, or when a company ...

Raising prices is way down on the list.

Quote: "Zee Linden Linden Lab Employee, Join Date: Sep 2006, Posts: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ciaran Laval
Does this mean the price rises and changes are set in stone? If it does can you ask someone to have the decency and good manners to actually say this.
Ciaran - thanks for your message. We did change the pricing structure from Jack's original post in a post that Mark made. We are not planning to make further changes to the pricing in the post that Mark made, so for now, those are final."

Notice the wording in the above..."so for now, those are final". That really doesn't say anything conclusive other than at this minute that's what they are.

This thread was advertised as a talk with M and Jack Linden, so where are you is what we'd like to know. Please announce script limitations etc. so we can make decisions regarding our investments and our future on SL.

-558 islands sold. I wonder how much of that is converted and how much is actually abandoned?

So whats it got to do with me? Why are you slinging it at me? Did you hear me mention any of them?


No i think we both can take credit for that.

Again : keep your focus on the context here : stay relative. This is SL. SL = Second Life. In SL users have AV's, and they get VERY attached to them - which is why SL is a success. Some of those AV's are leaving SL because of this ... they are getting burned here. Phsycologically that has a big impact on those users.


Well thats your perception of whats as bad as it gets. Not mine. And what do you think the perception is of those leaving?

Or do you decide for everyone??? (that sounds too familiar)

Oh BTW: Its exactly what you mentioned : "or when a company really does terminate a service and replace it with an incompatible one" :
The $75 OS service is being replaced by a new incompatible one with 80% less value. I consider that incompatible. Sure : If you are one of the lucky ones able to shell out $125 then you can have a similar (NEW = 'Homestead') service - but reduced functionality too.

2600 some odd posts from what appears to be 200 to 300 unique posters is this a rational sample of the game. I think not, last figures I managed to drag from the metrics is there are some where between 300,000 and 500,000 actual users of this game with 50,000 to 70,000 online at anyone time.


Thats about .0052 best case interest level or .001 verses the user base
Even if you just take the onliner's (2600/50,000) .052

Those are not impressive numbers.

Now if you take their subscriber account number of 14 million, well you get the idea ))

A Phart in a windstorm hehe

Luckily, my form and skin were full perm so I could use second inventory to port my body over to Avatar Hangout LOL Although I don't have much invested in SL (yeah right) I've only been in SL since July so there's no love lost for me by leaving. But I know a lot of people who are so attached to their belongings that they wouldn't consider leaving. I say....well sucks to be you since LL will be making a fortune off you because of your "possessions"

Message 2516:
Or was that some other AC Pfeffer?
The existing service is being renamed "Homesteads". It is not a new service, it is the existing OpenSpace under a new name. The new "OpenSpace" service is a completely new service.

But you know that.

You have told us openspace sims used as 'Homesteads' are using more resources than you expected. While you have presented no hard evidence of that I am willing to accept that as a basis of negotiation. Does that overuse of resources merit a 67% price rise and a limitation on avatar numbers and script use? I don't think so.

So here are my questions. :-

1) Are you prepared to accept a rise to $95/month for what you wish to call 'Homesteads' (with a 12 month cap on further rises) with the owners accepting an avatar limit of 20 and script time limit of 5ms ?

2) Are you prepared to agree that future problems of this type must be disclosed to sim owners and real discussions take place before you announce new pricing policies?

I will leave questions regarding the lower prim openspace offering for those who are directly affected.

LOL I think the rest are just bots. I don't even know why I come here to post anymore......I guess it's like watching the Titanic sink into the ocean LOL

reason why some of us are burned is because, i paid L$66000 for a home next to a region where i always wanted to be, with all my friends on the full sim next to it, at a just about affordable tier. The sim owner ordered it just for me. this was less than 3 months ago, this Openspace is now completely worthless. i can't live there. based on LL saying these can and have been used for other reasons other than trees and waterways although it's not recomended, not recomended doesn't mean not permitted. so i don't believe that they should make this increase. oh isn't there a missdescriptions act? we took the risk and were prepared for LL not taking responsibility for the maintenance if something went wrong if we used it as a home. Nothing went wrong, no lag, no problems at all on the sim or the other sims around it. but still in a month i have to give up my virtual home

The Property Misdescriptions Act 1991 makes it an offence for an estate agent or property developer to make false or misleading statements in the course of their business, about any of 33 property related matters listed in the Property Misdescriptions (Specified Matters) Order 1992.

The list includes, for example:

location or address;
aspect, view, outlook or environment;
accommodation, measurements and sizes;
physical or structural characteristics.
A fuller list and further information is shown in our Guide.

The Act is enforced by local authorities' Trading Standards Officers.

wonders if this counts for virtual land lol

Oh come on .... you're clutching at straws now ... what does mwituni.com have to do with 'ExitReality or Realms or Blue Mars' ??? You know very well that was in response to a request for something upcoming and point-for-point as good as or better (you even asked for more details on it ... which you are 'digesting'). It was not a suggestion where to currently exit to.



Oh really? ....


Explain to me which part of the above statements you don't understand so I can send you a colored-in picture.

To save you time I'll highlight them for you again as it seems you don't read properly before whinging ... the key parts are :

a. "We are going to retain the Openspaces product at its original price point and its original intended use "
b. "moving to a new product called Homesteads "


You are been totally silly, but I suggest LL give you your goofy-badge anyway as you tried hard.

You're in a hole, so stop digging, the sands falling in on your head.

Move on.

Yes it does, just a pity the enforcement and punishment is virtual too.

hahaha well lets virtually spank some ass, oh the wonders of SL. If only they would allow us to, it would make us feel so much better