Massive OS sim abandonments

Excellent information. I did not know that.

Firelight

I know you are dead right but some that have stayed with LL seem to think they are the chosen ones and that LL owes them something. I didn't stick around then in 2003 as RL work took me overseas and SL was in its infancy and not really at that time, my cup of tea, i noticed Briana in another thread yearns the days when Lindens were approachable and forgets the facts that LL got a cash injection new management and changed the way it did business but not always for the better.

Yeah I remember having a land issue and Char and another Linden turn up on the plot and got it all sorted out. The days when they hung out at the WA's and chatted with everyone, well unfortunately those days are gone, upper management has decided changes and baseline for us all imo is that we stay and weather it out or leave, as im sure LL doesn't care that much, as for everyone that leaves at least one other account is created i would imagine.

LL has used the population to build itself up to the level that it doesn't need individuals anymore in their eyes which is sad, but my take on this is never invest more than you can afford to lose in one hit and never believe the BS that spews from corporations as if it seems to good to be true then it probably is.

I'm just waiting now for the announcement that full sim tier prices are going to be raised as thats about due and at least if its announced sooner rather than later they can get it over and done with in this fallout, dam i am getting more cynical when LL is mentioned lol

Sell to whom? Us, the ones they just shafted? Don't hold your breath.

The business people who now see that LL can't be trusted to either keep a contract or attempt to control costs? Again, don't hold your breath.

We'll probably dump our voids and never ever buy another bit of land from LL. We clearly cannot trust them. And while we enjoy our remaining time in sL before they screw the island prices, our most technical members will be exploring alternatives to SL. Even text mucks are preferable to this.

Flag Factory and World Wonders :

- an entire sim-store for realistic flags (work started en january 2007)
- a free museum-sim dedicated to the 7 wonders of the RL world, antique and modern

one for commercial activity, one contribution to arts & culture

The large abandonments we are seeing are not just about increased prices. I think that for most, it is about totally loosing trust in LindenLab. To prices one can adjust, To incompettent management and total unknown future irradical steps, nobody can protect itself. Mark my words. This event will be remembered as the beginning of the end of the SL grid. I am looking forward to see you all in a better third life.

Exactly what I thought, but you used less words than I would have done.

I actually have known thousands of residents in SL (not all OSR owners), and of those that would have bought an OSR, I would guess that about 95 per cent of them, at least, would keep them, or would spend at least as much money (as they currently do) on an alternative form of land.

*giggles*

So, you buy LL some hardware, then you just leave the openspaces. Golly, that'll show em! I'm sure they won't just take your hardware and sell it to someone else with a big ole smile in their faces. Naw, that couldn't happen... right?

I'm sorry, but it is moronic to abandon land before this is even resolved. For that matter it is pretty silly to abandon it at all. It's the studied opinion of a lot of people this is exactly what LL wants. You buy them hardware, they make you mad, you leave, they sell it again, wash, rinse, repeat.

This kind of threat only works if there aren't people ready to come take your place, and at this point there is. Hold onto your land at least wait and see if this is actually what they end up doing. It's quite possible at this point that there will even be a legal option for openspace owners as this is of dubious legality on LL's part.

Actually when I saw what some people were saying about the number of OSs they had I began to think he might be right . Did you see the person who described herself as "one of the little people" and then mentioned having 98 OSs?

I do believe a lot of the people who say they are dumping their OSs, it is a hell of a price rise, I'd probably do the same if I had one, and I think we will lose people completely. But I suspect most of those that stay will find that they buy or rent land again before too long.

It is very simple LL have not managed the openspace issue not well . I for one will give up my premium membership and my openspace sim. I may return one day when I have more confidence in the management

It is a big price rise. And with no other corrections in tier rates for other types of sim, OSRs will become both the most expensive form of land in SL and the worst performing. The killer is the tier - equivalent of $500 USD for a regular Class 5, but the purchase price will still be lower than the the high of $1675 USD per CPU earlier in the year.

It still doesn't matter though, even if 10,000 OSRs are abandoned, that is still only(sic!) 2500 regular sims, and no need to order any racks for a while, a very very short while. People will revert to other forms of land, and when they do, it would be an ideal time for those land prices to be brought into line.

And the capital cost of that hardware has long since been recovered, and many times over. The whole thing is, in my view, pure genius, and you have to respect that.

"And the capital cost of that hardware has long since been recovered, and many times over. The whole thing is, in my view, pure genius, and you have to respect that."

Not so much. You are overlooking the fact that we as consumers, at least in the US, have a reasonable expectation of use as advertised. The complaint by LL is that we aren't using the land as advertised.

Oddly, their response doesn't address this. Actually, the only people who can bend with it are the people who make the most money with their openspaces, and therefore are probably the biggest abusers. Well, "oddly" if you believe what they say, and obviously you and I don't, nor would anyone who tested it legally.

So, in terms of 'genius', it is pretty clumsy. Obviously they have pulled a bait and switch to have us buy them hardware, and then reneged on their reasonable expectation of service. Had they cut our prims, had they capped the number of avatars, that would have been a reasonable response to abuse.

This isn't over, not a bit. If a single Linden had the backbone to come forward and admit that this was planned from the beginning, it would be, frankly, dire for LL. We shall see what we shall see.

There is certainly a performance overhead with OSRs (over regular sims) where those sims have a 3750 prim capacity. It is not complicated - both boards are handling 60,000 prims. The OSR board, however, is running sixteen simulations instead of four, and handling all of the communications with the rest of network for sixteen simulations instead of four. When just one in sixteen OSRs is pushed beyond the limit, if it hangs the board, it takes down 15 other OSRs with it. They must be a complete nightmare.

The answer is probably to do what they did before - parity on pricing (four OSRs equivalent in cost and tier to a regular sim), but only 1875 prims per OSR, to dissuade any kind of intensive use, but easily enough to build a forest or a string of decorative islands. They wouldn't be quite as popular though.

I have not seen any comments by people that claim to have some sort of legal background, but I suspect, given the very clear T&C that residents sign up to, that there are no grounds for any sort of legal action, and nor should there be.

The mala fides nature of their response is pretty obvious. People who abuse sims most often profit from them, and have the ability to accept the price increase. LL could easily have cut prims, cut max avatars, imposed script limits. Instead they keep those most apt to benefit their cash flow, regardless of abuse.

They create a situation wherein a lot of hardware they got us to purchase with incentives is abandoned by revoking said incentives or raising prices punitively. Said hardware will now be retasked, and resold. We have a reasonable expectation of use. We are only using what they granted us to use.

It's akin to a real estate development selling off lots, imposing draconian dues after they are sold, then when people leave reselling the land a second time. Wash, rinse, repeat when you need sudden capital. Or a landlord who charges huge deposits, then raises the rent a month after you have paid in order to run you off to get someone else's deposit.

If you can't see the bad faith in this, i would suggest some nice prim glasses.

My guess is there will not be an increase for full sims until people convert their open space sims into full sims. THEN they will raise the price any bets?

Wrong.

No one has forgotten anything, nor was i yearning, i was lamenting.

I apologize publicly to you then Briana for getting the wrong impression

No cos i think you are probably right

Thank you.

You did however point out quite clearly the truth: money changed them, permanently for the worse it seems.

Unfortunately I just get romantic at times about history.

You are welcome and i do agree with you but i still love my SL and there is nothing wrong with fondly remember what was. LL has caused so many problems within the community this time and that is the sadest thing about all of this. As always the top has decided what the rest will do and for those Lindens that have been with SL from the beginning i bet it breaks their heart to see what is happening now.

I am abandoning 4 of them. This is going to cost M a lot of money. What a dummy.

Well Said Raynee when this first came across the wire many of were shocked to think that LL will do such as this to people. Thankfully we have managed to save a good portion of the estate. Many of us have invested so much to create a paradise and yes we were an estate that used OS's responsibly. I for one am a paying premium user and tried living on the mailand just to be dissapointed and griefed, thankfully I found Irukandji and yes LL keeps throwing curvers at us We still stand up and try to fight a good fight, but damn how much more does LL think we can handle? Are they not wanting to create a selsustaining vision that will last and hopefully enrich mankind, or are they just self centered fools wanting to line thier pockets and then just leave like modern day carpet baggers?

.. the terms and conditions we agree to do not supercede customer protection laws. No company or entity has the right to either force you to relinquish your legal rights, nor may anyone simply release those rights. They may choose not to act on them, but what a company puts in its click-through EULA is not legally binding if it abridges basic consumer rights.

So, no, sorry, just because LL says it doesn't mean what they're doing is legal in any sense.

Well they're doing it. And trying to fight it would take more resources than just doing what they ask.

doing what they ask? are you a slave?
If we let them do it then we will be pushed to more umplesent things in future.

*nods*

Not to mention the amount of time and angst that would go with fighting it.