Openspace Announcement Discussion with Jack Linden
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Danae Debevec
Registered User
Join date: 5 Apr 2007
Posts: 6
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10-29-2008 02:40
From: Jenika Connolly Kalyrra Heart, you have all these open sims, and advertise renting them out for dance clubs and such. All of the people who do the same are the reason that opensims are increasing in price. It's very simple, you're taking these sims, which are meant for light use, and turning them into competition for Linden's mainland sales. You're undercutting them, they're losing money for it, so they are raising rates to compensate for it.
Those of you that point to the economy being bad and making it harder to pay for your sims, why don't you take into consideration that the exact same economic factors are affecting Linden Labs? It's costing them more money to do business, and people using openspace sims as property rentals, creating a competing product out of something that was never meant to be used as such, is just increasing the problem.
It is the land barons, who abuse openspace sims, that have forced Linden's hand. There is nothing criminal about them rasing their rates so that they can continue to stay in business. Linden Labs recieves $195.00/month from users per mainland full sim Linden Labs recieves $295.00/month from users per private full prim sim Linden labs currently recieves $300.00/monthly per 4 OS sims Linden labs proposes to recieve $500/monthly per 4 open space sims how exactly has their hand been "forced" seems to me it's a win-win for lindens all around. maybe if they started recieving ZERO dollars cause we all decided not to own land anymore and let them foot the bill for all the space our avatars occupy they might get a clue. |
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Snowflake Fairymeadow
Registered User
Join date: 21 May 2006
Posts: 704
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10-29-2008 02:42
From: Vryl Valkyrie No, you're wrong. An Open Space sim could not rent out for 125 USD a month because that is cost.. actually for Europeans cost is more like 155 USD a month.. plus extra for some tiny profit.. and for Americans and others, 125 USD plus some extra for profit.. which of course still does not cover the expense of actually buying the island. Please spare us the crap.
We all know what this is about and the market won't sort itself out because this time the users of SL have been pushed too damn far. I am talking about end users, not people attempting to use openspaces to make a profit. The point is the same, whether it is $125 US or converted to some other currency with VAT, half a sim of mainland, or a 1/4 sim openspace are the same price under the new plan. |
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Firelight Simca
Registered User
Join date: 22 Aug 2006
Posts: 156
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10-29-2008 02:45
From: Snowflake Fairymeadow I am talking about end users, not people attempting to use openspaces to make a profit.
The point is the same, whether it is $125 US or converted to some other currency with VAT, half a sim of mainland, or a 1/4 sim openspace are the same price under the new plan. Then it's even more expensive for the end users because they have to buy a full sim before they can buy an open space sim. Firelight |
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Snowflake Fairymeadow
Registered User
Join date: 21 May 2006
Posts: 704
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10-29-2008 02:47
From: Firelight Simca Then it's even more expensive for the end users because they have to buy a full sim before they can buy an open space sim.
Firelight Finally, someone else gets it. Yes indeed, it is. That is why I beleive that this move is designed to push people back to the mainland. |
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Vryl Valkyrie
Owner of 3D Concepts
Join date: 30 May 2006
Posts: 257
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Don't Feed teh Trolls
10-29-2008 02:48
From: Snowflake Fairymeadow I am talking about end users, not people attempting to use openspaces to make a profit.
The point is the same, whether it is $125 US or converted to some other currency with VAT, half a sim of mainland, or a 1/4 sim openspace are the same price under the new plan. I know exactly what you are referring to and furthermore this is more than just about end users. This illegal decision effects us all. Most of the Open Space sims are rented to third parties from end users. Of course land must be rented for a profit. Trust me, without commerce, Second Life is dead. It does not take a rocket scientist to read the writing on the wall here. That's ok.. let's see how they feel about Class Action Law Suit. Now time to mute you because a good friend of mine, Obscuo Valkyrie told me a very long time ago, "don't feed the trolls" ..
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Firelight Simca
Registered User
Join date: 22 Aug 2006
Posts: 156
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10-29-2008 02:49
From: Snowflake Fairymeadow Finally, someone else gets it.
Yes indeed, it is. That is why I beleive that this move is designed to push people back to the mainland. Well, I understood that all along. I just didn't understand that was the point you were trying to make. I also happen to think that this is a move to get rid of open space sims. Firelight |
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Jim Perhaps
Registered User
Join date: 10 Dec 2005
Posts: 65
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Oh my word!!
10-29-2008 02:50
I just looked at the prices people are bidding on 1024sqm lots in Nautilus. $65k lindens!
No wonder LL wants to be in the land business. Lets see if they can get enough people to abandon there openspace sims then they have servers that someone else paid for to setup up more things like Nautilus. Also if they can get others to pay the extra 50L a month they have more income as well for the new LLNet private network they just announced on the SL blog!!
This really is a sham!!!
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Berenice Cazalet
Registered User
Join date: 10 Apr 2007
Posts: 30
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NOT moving back to mainland
10-29-2008 02:51
From: Snowflake Fairymeadow Finally, someone else gets it.
Yes indeed, it is. That is why I beleive that this move is designed to push people back to the mainland. Well, if that was the reason for it, at least for me it fails. I will NOT go back to mainland and "live" today with a neighbour who runs a club, tomorrow next to a Gorean Castle and next week surrounded by little green aliens. I loose the place I call my virtual home, LL looses what they call a real customer! |
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Snowflake Fairymeadow
Registered User
Join date: 21 May 2006
Posts: 704
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10-29-2008 02:53
From: Firelight Simca Well, I understood that all along. I just didn't understand that was the point you were trying to make.
I also happen to think that this is a move to get rid of open space sims.
Firelight That is because of the signal-to-noise ratio. Its hard to make a point when it is unpopular and one is attacked, jeered and threatened for trying to make it. I agree with you that it is a move to get rid of open space sims, at least in the manner in which they are being used now. |
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Jim Perhaps
Registered User
Join date: 10 Dec 2005
Posts: 65
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Maybe this explains why they want to reclaim servers
10-29-2008 02:53
Nautilus - Magon (136,85) Mature 10... L$65,760.00 11 10/29/2008 12:00 PM
Nautilus - Hanno (21,94) Mature 102... L$57,900.00 15 10/29/2008 1:00 PM
Nautilus - Kothar (95,73) Mature 10... L$50,020.00 4 10/29/2008 1:00 PM
Nautilus - Sophonisba (178,152) Mat... L$81,010.00 8 10/29/2008 2:00 PM
Nautilus - Magon (29,71) Mature 102... L$61,130.00 5 10/30/2008 10:00 AM
these are 1024sqm parcels
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Aradia Dielli
Registered User
Join date: 28 Oct 2006
Posts: 8
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10-29-2008 02:53
From: Jim Perhaps I just looked at the prices people are bidding on 1024sqm lots in Nautilus. $65k lindens!
No wonder LL wants to be in the land business. Lets see if they can get enough people to abandon there openspace sims then they have servers that someone else paid for to setup up more things like Nautilus. Also if they can get others to pay the extra 50L a month they have more income as well for the new LLNet private network they just announced on the SL blog!!
This really is a sham!!! That's nothing, someone was selling a small parcel for 200k :| |
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Lissa Fimicoloud
Registered User
Join date: 29 Jul 2007
Posts: 75
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10-29-2008 02:54
First - this is not about abuse, that was just a lie to try to distract you from the real reason for the price increase - Greed.
Second - ranting about LL is going to lose customers - that's silly. They don't care about individuals. they're aiming at corporate users now that their proof-of-concept has worked.
Third - ranting at all is a waste of time. Decisions were already made. This was not a request for comments but an announcement of what is going to happen.
Fourth - yelling at the Linden sock-puppets does nothing but increase the personal abuse level. Personal abuse is always a bad thing.
I'm having my landowner convert my sim - which is a forest, as suggested usage - to a full sim. I like the people inside SL a great deal and I am not going to screw up friendships just because LL doesn't respect its users. I would love to rant and rave and claim LL is going to kill itself with this decision, but in reality they are going to line their pockets with a bit more money and business will go on as usual.
stop thinking you are important to LL. You aren't.
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Caoimhe Armitage
Script Witch
Join date: 7 Sep 2004
Posts: 117
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10-29-2008 02:54
From: Phillip Vought Jack,
as an owner of "residential openspaces" I understand the issues here and I spend a great deal of time managing the script time (the single biggest issue I think)
...
The rapid increase in voids obviously indicates there's a market out there.. how about you consider that midway simtype to help fill it. Actually, in the midst of reading all this whingeing, an idea occurs to me: how about you simply put an upper limit to traffic on openspace lands? Anyone exceeding the OS traffic limit gets a month (maybe a quarter?) to fix or you operationally have to move them to a full sim. That will reduce the attractiveness of any kind of high-load development. Residential users simply don't get the traffic levels of even a slightly successful club or mall. And yes, I realize that you may not have the tools to make migrating sim contents quite as easy as you would need for this proposal, *but* once you had those tools, they would be useful in a zillion other contexts as well... Just L$0.02 from a long-term resident - C |
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Snowflake Fairymeadow
Registered User
Join date: 21 May 2006
Posts: 704
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10-29-2008 02:55
From: Jim Perhaps Nautilus - Magon (136,85) Mature 10... L$65,760.00 11 10/29/2008 12:00 PM
Nautilus - Hanno (21,94) Mature 102... L$57,900.00 15 10/29/2008 1:00 PM
Nautilus - Kothar (95,73) Mature 10... L$50,020.00 4 10/29/2008 1:00 PM
Nautilus - Sophonisba (178,152) Mat... L$81,010.00 8 10/29/2008 2:00 PM
Nautilus - Magon (29,71) Mature 102... L$61,130.00 5 10/30/2008 10:00 AM
these are 1024sqm parcels See, it's a move back to mainland. Mainland is a big moneymaker for LL. and presumably less work than giving so much concierge support. |
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Jenika Connolly
Registered User
Join date: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 11
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10-29-2008 02:55
From: Vryl Valkyrie I know exactly what you are referring to and furthermore this is more than just about end users. This illegal decision effects us all. Most of the Open Space sims are rented to third parties from end users. Of course land must be rented for a profit. Trust me, without commerce, Second Life is dead. It does not take a rocket scientist to read the writing on the wall here. That's ok.. let's see how they feel about Class Action Law Suit. Now time to mute you because a good friend of mine, Obscuo Valkyrie told me a very long time ago, "don't feed the trolls" .. What makes this illegal? The cost of a 12 pack of coke went from $2.50 to $4.20, was that illegal? The cost of gas went from $2.00 to $4.00, was that illegal? The cost of a bus pass went up. The cost of a movie tick went up. The cost of a newspaper went up. My utility bill went up, my cable bill went up, my internet bill went up, my phone service bill went up. Prices increases, the costs of doing business increases, how is this any different? A virtual world is still run by a very real company that is affected by very real economics. Did they ever guarantee that their rates would stay the same forever? |
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Smeagol Palen
Registered User
Join date: 21 Aug 2007
Posts: 2
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In All Good Book Shops
10-29-2008 02:57
In All Good Book Shops...
"The Jack Linden Guide for Dummies.. How to rip customers off..."
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Snowflake Fairymeadow
Registered User
Join date: 21 May 2006
Posts: 704
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10-29-2008 02:57
From: Jenika Connolly What makes this illegal?
The cost of a 12 pack of coke went from $2.50 to $4.20, was that illegal?
The cost of gas went from $2.00 to $4.00, was that illegal?
The cost of a bus pass went up.
The cost of a movie tick went up.
The cost of a newspaper went up.
My utility bill went up, my cable bill went up, my internet bill went up, my phone service bill went up.
Prices increases, the costs of doing business increases, how is this any different? A virtual world is still run by a very real company that is affected by very real economics. Did they ever guarantee that their rates would stay the same forever? Finally some sense! It's nice to see. Thanks for posting. |
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Jini Hammerer
The green chick
Join date: 22 Jul 2007
Posts: 196
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10-29-2008 02:59
From: Snowflake Fairymeadow I used the words "video game". Not "video tape". Clearly you did not understand my meaning, as you are misquoting me even now.
And yes, I am welcome here.
I read the TOS and my account entitles me to post in these threads.
You have a choice. Keep giving money to a company that you feel has treated you unfairly, or don't. It has NOTHING to do with me or my posts here in this forum. Only you can change it.
Be a victim or stand up and speak for yourself, like I have done and will continue to do. Snowflake you're funnny... We are already victums. Anyone that owns one is a victum of poor decision making by the people who run SL. We purchased our lands. thats right purchased... We own, manage, take care of supprting our customers to insure they do not hinder the experiance for others. We handle the geifers, We handle sim preformance issue and rebooting and finding lost prms and any other little quirks that may go on on any given land and we only contact support for things we can not physicly handle our selvs. Many of us do it not to try to get rich but at the same time we must be able pay for it. TO do that we MUST be able to rent our land. the land WE purchased and pay the maintenance fees on. We cant do that if the costs are so high that you can buy twice the value at half the costs from some place else. Make no mistake about it. this is a bussiness, and LL is forcing people out of bussiness with this move, conveniantly forcing people to use them selvs as the alternitive. It would exactly like the government raising sales tax on gas by 65% unless you purchased it from a government outlett store where you can get the same gas for half the price. If you cant see whats wrong with that, how unfair and crooked it is. then really you should just shut down your PC and go back to economics classes. |
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jsmn Yao
Registered User
Join date: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 9
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10-29-2008 02:59
From: Kalyrra Heart Next, they brought in new rules and destroyed my advertising business. so you are one of the ppl that drove me away from mainland with your adfarms? i don't feel sorry for you. |
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Snowflake Fairymeadow
Registered User
Join date: 21 May 2006
Posts: 704
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10-29-2008 03:00
From: Lissa Fimicoloud First - this is not about abuse, that was just a lie to try to distract you from the real reason for the price increase - Greed.
Second - ranting about LL is going to lose customers - that's silly. They don't care about individuals. they're aiming at corporate users now that their proof-of-concept has worked.
Third - ranting at all is a waste of time. Decisions were already made. This was not a request for comments but an announcement of what is going to happen.
Fourth - yelling at the Linden sock-puppets does nothing but increase the personal abuse level. Personal abuse is always a bad thing.
I'm having my landowner convert my sim - which is a forest, as suggested usage - to a full sim. I like the people inside SL a great deal and I am not going to screw up friendships just because LL doesn't respect its users. I would love to rant and rave and claim LL is going to kill itself with this decision, but in reality they are going to line their pockets with a bit more money and business will go on as usual.
stop thinking you are important to LL. You aren't. Great and thoughtful post Lissa. |
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Casandra Zolnir
Registered User
Join date: 7 Dec 2006
Posts: 29
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Get your facts straight
10-29-2008 03:00
From: JZ Paine This is unbelieveble. Most everyone complaining says that Lindens is screwing up cus you folks bought the land for development when this was not the reason why Openspaces where developed.
Start putting the blame on where it belongs. But don't blame Lindens for enforcing the original idea. Understand if all you complainers used the Openspace as it was envisioned and defined, you might not be seeing this messge from Jack in the first place. So sit back and think for a minute who really is to blame.
Gets off his soap box.oops falls down on ground instead. OUCH!! sorry Your wrong. They did not state what open Space sims were for until after they lowered the price. go back and read the blogs. Open spaces were bought and built befor they stated it. |
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Snowflake Fairymeadow
Registered User
Join date: 21 May 2006
Posts: 704
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10-29-2008 03:01
From: Jini Hammerer Snowflake you're funnny...
We are already victums. Anyone that owns one is a victum of poor decision making by the people who run SL.
We purchased our lands. thats right purchased...
We own, manage, take care of supprting our customers to insure they do not hinder the experiance for others. We handle the geifers, We handle sim preformance issue and rebooting and finding lost prms and any other little quirks that may go on on any given land and we only contact support for things we can not physicly handle our selvs.
Many of us do it not to try to get rich but at the same time we must be able pay for it. TO do that we MUST be able to rent our land. the land WE purchased and pay the maintenance fees on. We cant do that if the costs are so high that you can buy twice the value from some place else.
Make no mistake about it. this is a bussiness, and LL is forcing people out of bussiness with this move, conveniantly forcing people to use them selvs as the alternitive.
It would exactly like the government raising sales tax on gas by 65% unless you purchased it from a government outlett store where you can get the same gas for half the price.
If you cant see whats wrong with that, how unfair and crooked it is. then really you should just shut down your PC and go back to economics classes. Money doesn't have feelings. |
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Snowflake Fairymeadow
Registered User
Join date: 21 May 2006
Posts: 704
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10-29-2008 03:03
From: Casandra Zolnir sorry Your wrong. They did not state what open Space sims were for until after they lowered the price. go back and read the blogs. Open spaces were bought and built befor they stated it. I got ripped up one side and down the other when I posted the knowledge base article because it has been there for two years, so was therefore "outdated" according to the people who were ripping me for posting it. |
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Jazz Burt
Registered User
Join date: 28 Mar 2007
Posts: 3
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Jenika & Snowflake
10-29-2008 03:03
Oil prices went up because of the financial whizz kids making a killing! Are we talking of LL making a killing? If so, the raison d'etre for most of us being part of sl, a community based life, is exposed as a pathetic falsehood.
What costs have gone up for LL? Heating costs? High wage demands..increased taxes...none of these.
Its Jack having to fulfill his main hiring condition...get revenues UP UP UP!
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Naiman Broome
Registered User
Join date: 4 Aug 2007
Posts: 246
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10-29-2008 03:05
I have 4 openspace sims and one regular I do not have them for money couse even wuith rents I can barely reach a part of the cost of everything , I do for the enjoyment of having and presenting to the people a nicely shaped tropicao paradise , many of you may know las arenas rosadas now and so how much developed around , how much months I spent not opening the sims preparing and working and so loosing lot of money without a refund , now that I am about to open I find that LL decides to rise up even more the price making so all or part of the work I did toill now TOTALLY WASTED TIME !!!!! and TOTALLY Wasted money .....
What shuld I do now fill land with crap malls and shops to cover the expenses?
Drop the lands?
Rise the prices of the place?
What is going on in LL mind? possible that they do not care at all for nicely crafted lands that increase their visibility to the world? and care just for money ? They offer no support for nicely crafted sims and most will sink couse of greedness....
This solution is Insane!!!
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