Openspace Announcement Discussion with Jack Linden

When you own land, say you have 2048 sqm, and you cut it into two 1024sqm parcels, you can still use all 468 prims that your total amount of land supports... it doesn't mean you can only put 234 primitives on each parcel.

All that picture is showing is that they've got a parcel cut on that sim... they're still using fewer prims than the sim supports.

WELL .. I REALLY cant believe what you show us.. BUT i will have to believe it as you show the PROOF!!!

A Linden-worker GroupIsland with HIGHLY ABUSE in prims ( and for sure as well in scripts )

Jack, well maybe cleaning in front of YOUR Door before BOLLOCKING us about overload in Servers would have made it a bit more serious what you said.... but like that I just see what is now for me fact ....... GREED GREED GREED ....

(PS: Qiana, TY for that Info)

PPS: even when the SIM supports more prims.. WHAT do you think will a Parceluser see there? Ohhh Linden is using more prims then they should on a parcel.... maybe I can do so too?

Hmmmmmm Could this be a CRIMINAL ACTION in the USA?

http://frwebgate6.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/TEXTgate.cgi?WAISdocID=276619111227+12+1+0&WAISaction=retrieve

I was under the impression that an openspace sim had to be connected to a full private estate sim. You have to own an island to own an openspace sim, so do they allow you to just stick your openspace sim in the middle of nowhere, connected to nothing?

Yep and use it for sailing apparently -- around and around in circles :}

Openspaces could be placed anyplace ... the connection you are refuring to is that you have to own a full sim in order to own an os sim.

One thing I do agree with Snowflake on, is that despite LL's claims, SL is best regarded as a game or recreation platform.

That isn't to say that you can't use it for education, business, communication, 3d visualisation etc. however there are better dedicated tools which are more stable, better supported etc. for those purposes.

That isn't to say that you can't invest time and money into SL with the hope of making a return, but both the technology and the policies are extremely volatile thus endangering that investment.

If you think of SL as a game when considering investing time and money into other ventures on SL, you will get a much better idea of the risk involved. If you are happy with that level of risk, then go ahead - if you aren't look elsewhere.

There are, however, I think far too many people taken in by LL's hype who have invested heavily into SL without knowing the real risk of that investment.

Matthew

There are coastal sims all around the mainland, where residents usually can't build objects, it's not rented out, it's just used to make everything look nicer... why wouldn't they want estate owners to have the same option of putting similar surrounding areas out?

I think this can help, thx!

I keep reading these posts, and the common thread is that LL is being very Greedy and Uncaring.
I participated in a few protests today, people are very angry about this, the least the Lindens could do for us is, at the very least, is reply to some of these points people have bought up.
The fact they haven't just proves the fact they see us as numbers, not individuals.
Some common courtesy to the people that pay your wages would be appreciated.
If you continue with this action i hope SL does die and something that really embraces the community aspect you so highly promote rises from the flames of its destruction.
AzA Zymurgy.

Sorry LL decision makers,

you have no idea about your product. Apparently you don't use SL at all I think. Nor do you conduct business inside SL.

Your methods are going to ruin SL once and for all.

You did it with mainland prices, you did it with estate region pricing, you are now doing it with openspaces also.

You suck at webhosting, sorry.

I have 9 openspaces, each very closely monitored and well preserved. I know exactly how many I will keep in January 1st.

I feel pity for people who put their money (REAL money) into SL, paying them to buy servers. I know a lot of people (everyday people) who paid 250 USD to buy openspace SIMs (my friendlist is more than 1500 people). How many of those they will keep it? Poor people who paid for LL's quad servers... I really feel pity for them. As much as I feel pity for my landlords from whom I rent my openspaces from. At least they covered some of their setup costs with the monthly fees of mine...

LL is either ridiculously incompetent or just hypocrites. ANYONE who uses SL can see people buying OS SIMs to put their club on it. ANYONE. You don't need to be a tech guru to see... Just see about land -> objects -> SIM prim usage... or just have statistics on when you TP from one SIM to another.

Anyone can see people leaving their full SIM landlords to get an OS SIM or half of their own. Or rent from another landlord. Want me to tell you stories about well known landlords and their notecards to their residents just before they went bankrupt?

LL people are sleeping? Or they are busy playing Lineage? Cause definitely someone who's playing SL for an hour a day can see those trends from 2nd week of new land pricing...

I get to the conclusion that LL must be hypocrites. Caring about today's financial results and not about tomorrow. Or just incompetent. Remembering the recent blog post about "leaving VPN - buying dark fiber", I think they are just incompetent and jeopardize million USD of revenue on pure luck without backup plans. Or both. In any case, they sure don't provide a proper stable environment to do business. Sorry to be so blunt. But you gotta hear it.

Tomorrow is gonna be tough for LL. Sorry... you are going to be extinct, sooner than later. The exact same way you are killing every SL business on the grid. Finally it's gonna be your own turn. Mark my words. You're screwing it up business wise, continually. Your biggest asset is your residents and your business / content creators. And the latter are not happy with you for a long time now.

BTW, I couldn't care less about the price increase in the OS SIMs. I rent 9 of them, each having 45 FPS, 0.7-1.2ms script time and no more than 15 avatars at peak time (1 hour per day). This price increase in my business will help me sell A LOT more (isn't it funny to see competitors go out of business by LL actions?). Your business tactics though make me wanna sell my business to another person and get the hell out of here.

Soy Nakamori

They probably made a mistake by allowing that, they should be required to be placed directly next to the owner's estate sim.

We have signed up both of us and with the money we save on the OS sim here thats was an ocean for our members we will invest it in this grid and start building there for the future when LL has done its worse and there is no more fun in SL anymore. We will also encourage our group or 800+ members to join us there as well. As an aside a friend who owns a lot of sims and has a 2000+ member group is also considering coming with us whilst neither of us want to leave SL i think the exodus has begun and armed with the mistakes of LL maybe one day soon this grid will grow and offer what LL offers us but with an honest approach to its business model.

LL btw turned around and sold many of the once protected costal waters thats why you cant sail around any contenent anymore with out hitting buildings and ban lines etc.

The silence from Jack, the silence from LL, shows me quite clearly how much they care about us. Almost 2000 postings, and 1 single posting from Jack. That's it. Contempt for the paying customer base will backfire....

ok read all the above and i am very disapointed as i bought and paid only a week ago for open space i paid in good faith, the land i have had landscaped and is beautiful, my dream home as i thought, only to find out now it might be impossable for me to keep up with the increase;(((((((((((((( shame i wasnt notified earlier about this before i parted with my money, here we go again alll about money, not no thought for the REAL person behind are AVS,as yes surprisingly we are all HUMANS, with human feelings, emotions etc
would we take this lieing down in real life
NO well i know i definately woulnt thats for sure
JACK has this decision already been made?
jack i ask you to come vist the land i bought a week ago and see for yourself i am not misusing it as i read it says some ppl are
so why punish the ones who arent , why tar us with the same brush
very unfair ( would be great if we could all orgainise a way we can meet up with jack face to face so to speak and air are views and concerns
surely you not all going to take this lieing down?
lets try at least
Baba michinaga

The point of the matter with your analogy is that those items didn't increase in price after you bought them. Those are consumables. SIMS are not consumables.

That may have been the motivation--I've speculated as much myself. But it's not guaranteed to work. This move undercuts confidence in the platform pretty dramatically, and the result could be a substantial decrease in demand overall. Had OpenSpaces not been quite so popular, that wouldn't be a big concern, but under the circumstances... I really don't think this is just going to blow over.

I really have no idea what to expect with the auctions for the remainder of Nautilus City. The speculators may push those to the same heights as the current and just completed tranches, or even higher, on the premise that folks will be moving back to Mainland. I'm really not so sure of that migration pattern; not sure at all. (Oh, btw: that L$200K parcel was very special; when I visited it, I understood why it got such a premium. The right merchant could use the extensive surrounding Linden content to create a real retail showplace, with negligible tier. L$200K was cost-effective in that particular instance. How the little cookie-cutter parcels can ever justify L$60K, though, is quite beyond me.)

+++

One other thing I keep forgetting to mention: Very few "abusers" could have any performance indication that they were "abusing" anything. This isn't a moralistic statement one way or another, it's just a technical observation, and I only say it to try to temper some of the in-fighting here between "accusers" and "abusers." Yes, policy-wise, LL gave all kinds of mixed signals on the proper use of OpenSpaces, so depending which signal one follows, one could reasonably end up in either camp. But looking at the performance of an individual OpenSpace--including top scripts execution times--would only rarely reflect the actual impact of how the sim was being used. So... I guess, going forward, after some coherent and specific guidelines are in place, maybe there's some justification for finger-pointing. But right now, only the very limited-use OpenSpaces can be sure they aren't themselves part of the problem; just based on their own sim's performance, they could never know one way or another.

It just shows me that it's 4am in California and they're in bed.

Sims are a service. Just like telephone, utilities, cable, internet.

Some 1900 posts later and the situation stays the same. I still support the Linden's increase in maintenance charges since a large majority of these openspace sims are not being used as originally intended.

You are moaning that they have 3750 prim available on them so can't be just for scenery. This came about with the introduction of Havoc 4 being able to handle more load, and also because at the time you customers were asking for more prim to be able to "beautify" these sims. Load is caused not just by the number of prim on the sim, it is also increasingly the number of scripts running and more importantly the number of avatars and their attachments.

The fact that many of you used these to extend your real estate business and have a cheap way to offer more space for the same cost to your renters, was not what LL intended for their use. Nor was it their intention for them to be cheap alternatives to house your clubs and malls. You say this doesn't happen, but last night I just picked 10 of these sims at random off the map, and 4 of them I visited had a fully fledged yard sale or, either malls or clubs, or both.

As some of you claim, quite farirly that when bought in sets of 4, all on the same core, if any of these activities were undertaken it would only affect your other rental clients, but as soon as it was opened up to the position of only buying 1 at a time, positioned whereever you wanted, where you had no knowledge of who else used the other opensims running on the same core, there was no longer any incentive for these people to use the opensims correctly as envisaged; and that is exactly what happened.

I feel for all those renters who have used these openspaces to create modest homes, but the sims were not intended for multiple occupancy, and the blame there falls not on LL but on the real estate community for pushing these spaces as commercial and residential areas.

Certainly in the UK and some other countries which don't have the luxury of large open spaces, if you want privacy and space, you have to pay a premium for it. Yet opensims were cheaper than mainland renting for that extra space and privacy.

You all mention world economy being very tight, yet this hasn't stopped a large number of price rises on basic items of food, gasoline, utilities, etc and in a lot of cases we are not talking of mere 10% increases, we have seen many prices jump considerably. SL is the same as any other commodity and it has to reflect costs. If the load on the servers has increased with the overuse of these opensims, and now demands more time of the grid monkeys to keep these sims afloat, then that has to be reflected in their cost. LL have made the decision to announce this early so you can all make plans as to what you wish to do. I don't remember exactly how much notice my utility company gave for raising the price of the electricity, but it was less than 3 weeks, and gasoline prices always jump immediately.

The above doesn't discount that SL may have a different agenda which we are still yet unaware of.

LL have a *very* healthy turnover. If they're not making a profit by now they should look at the quality of the people they have working for them because from where I stand they've never demonstrated effectiveness or efficiency.

but I digress.

*if* these guys actually do have a long term inworld corporate strategy (which I seriously doubt) it's an interesting one. The move to providing OS appeared to be part of a plan to move the company to one where it just provided the server space (remember, private sim owners are responsible for providing first line support rather than ll) as its position was that it didn't want to get involved with providing governance of SL. This positioned them quite nicely into the open grid vision.

Now it appears that they are moving to become more active in SL. Removing adfarms, building roads, creating showpiece communities... From a marketing perspective this is all good, financially it doesn't make as much sense as the open sims and encouraging people to take up residence there.

What does this have to do with the pricing change? everything and nothing I suspect. This price hike has nothing to do with technology issues and smacks (yet again) of an ill conceived and poorly executed decision which addresses some short term internal issue but impacts adversely on their long term strategy.

Land management has always given the stability of the grid a run for its money for severity of impact on the customer base. Even by LL standards it has been poorly managed and is giving every indication that it will continue to be so.

Remember, LL has always blamed the users and never itself and has no track record for honesty when explaining decisions. This is no different.

All the blame does is put a smokescreen up which deflects people from the real issues.

As always, they hope you'll whine here in private and then take the hit and keep paying. *And the majority will*, because that's the norm in this world of ours. Which is why they can say "if you don't like it leave" because they know you won't and they can ignore this thread and suffer no consequences.

Jack is in the UK, yesterday he should have had a chance to talk to his bosses in SF and by now should have posted a response to this decision. The fact he hasn't goes a long way to vaildating the previous paragraph.

Openspace Announcement Discussion

I will be reading all the comments to this thread tomorrow and will reply as best as I can then, as it's very late for me now in the UK. Please be assured that we do read every reply.


Jack

That is what it says at the very beginning of this thread, Jenika

Granted. They are not like Pepsi.

However, if my telephone service or internet provider raised my rates by 66%, you can best believe I'd be on their doorstep protesting too, and looking into the Federal Trade Commission website.

What I want to know. With this massive increase of price for open space sims. Are they going to allow more usage on them, as they claim people are (abusing) them? Or, are we still not going to be allowed to use them for no more than useless "pretty" space even though we will be paying over 60% more?

If this really is the issue, they need to implement a cheaper variant of sim with lower prim usages like Open spaces that people CAN use for shops ect. Instead of just punishing current open space users with such price hikes.