Openspace Announcement Discussion with Jack Linden

WTH does that mean. NVM i don't even wanna know.

Facts are facts.

The bigest protest will be the ones where you see 1000's of sims shutting down due to LL not respecting their client base.

I understand that there are price increases in everything in life but such a sudden change is bound to impact greatly on people with limited resources (getting more limited in view of the worldwide credit crunch) who have spent hours of thier time creating beautiful work on their OS. In many cases, for those of us who cannot afford the increase, that work will all be lost and we are left with a very disappointed feeling towards Linden Labs who have had our loyalty for years.

Why could not this price increase have been for new buyers of OS? Why should you jeopardise all the hard work and dedication many have given to creating somethig that enhances the whole SL experience for others. Surely LL could havge found a way to deal with the people who have been overloading these sims for purposes not intended by LL.


It does seem as though Linden Labs do not value their customer base sufficiently and it is with disappointment that I sign off this comment.

so Jack teh market has dropped out of main land and teh lindendollar is gonng off the map,
the person i rent my land off charges me 113$ USD for it now (last month) this month at the current rate of lindend to dollars ? god only knows

because i am teh payor does this meen i can be the owner?

and since you are lifting the price of thes light use lands should i not be able to buy one with out buying a all but useless "full sim" ?

why dont you just deel with the root cause of the problemn and hit the people overusing ther land ? or is the true root cause angry fat reaestate agents crying over the rappidly deminishing value of their mainland slums ?

reading though somany other bloggers and the mixed emotions therein , i cant help but wonder if its not just time to move on .,.,.,.
time will tell


open space livving to me means my little slice, no visitors , no noise from the next house, room for me and my girl to be, quiet tim with friends with out being attatcked by script weilding lons in the publick places of the mainland , and a place to call home

the only way for me to survive this change is to buy my own, i dont believe you can make these increses baised on your justifications with out making it possible for my self and others like me to be able to apply to buy ther own open space sim , on a case by case basis

thanks for your time

Luke

So the answer is "Lets RAISE the price to reflect how they are noe being used.... AND enforce how we feel they should be being used, in our vague sort of way..."????

That ALMOST makes sense... Except... IT DOESNT!

Kinds reminds me of how in the USA, the oil companies raise gas prices by 70 cents... Then lower them a few days later by 30 cents, to make you feel like they are somehow giving you a deal!

What a sham.

Go to Www.SL-LiveEvents.Com to protest this!

I don't know if it's illegal, probably not but it's damn sure immoral. They KNEW people were buying these sims as homes and businesses when they gave that prim limit. If these were intended to be a nice little extension of a regular island, just as a place to have a few seagulls and some waves why are most of them not connected to another sim?

If they told me the deal, 75 prims, 20 scripts running, 5 avatars or whatever fine. I could take or leave the offer but they sold all these knowing a lot of people who can't afford a "real" sim would buy them for a little happy spot in their lives at the start of a world-wide recession.

I'm not angry about a small price increase to keep up with inflation. I was LIED to.

You tell them Robo.......................................

The problem with this kind of moves is that Linden Labs portrays itself as an unreliable service provider, by first selling out all those open space sims, then afterwards kicking prices up by 66%.

It´s not whether this is an intentional move, to get more money out of those sims that are already terraformed and decorated by people (which will make it harder and more painful to give them up)
Or whether it is meant to drive them back to mainland sims.

I have heard plenty arguments that SL will live through this, since this kind of hopscotch pricing policy has been going on all these years. Well surely the grid has survived. We also know many old time users have left for these reasons.

It makes me wonder where we could have been by now if LL had a more stable and reliable policy on their pricing plans.

People are not crazy. One of these days a competitor comes along and this sort of thing won't work anymore.

A friend already decided to close down 4 voids and a full sim yesterday, keeping only one sim in portfolio and not buy a single prim back for it.

And she is right: as long as Linden Labs can not be trusted in it's pricing plans, the best in-world business strategy seems to be to keep it small in terms of land use and put your time and energy in content and activities that don't require as much space.

VERY good point!

Yep well someone, or at least some disposable bots are forking out the cash for double prim sardine parcels, blame them for this.

For the record, if you have any doubt to the hypocricy and deception here, please feel free to visit several Open Space sims inworld operated, owned and developed by the Linden Team.

http://slurl.com/secondlife/Mos%20Ainsley/130/159/48


http://slurl.com/secondlife/Castle%20Valeria/38/83/24

Both of these are really nice builds by the Linden Lab Moles but that is not the point. These two Open Space sims screams of hypocricy from Linden Lab and they are guilty of the very thing that they wrongly accuse the users of SL.

The reality is that resource abuse can occur on any type of parcel, including mainland and private estates both.

This is all about Linden Lab wanting to force people back to Mainland to their shiny new zoned areas like baycity and Nautilus.

Some may want that but many as has the huge success of Open Space sims proven want their cake and eat it too, in otherwords, they want that affordable island dream that falls within their budget.

Whether one owns or rents an Open Space sim, this still effects us all either way. What effects you, effects me and so on and so on.

LL is a business. They care nothing for ethics or morals. They care nothing for you. Get over yourselves and either accept the reaming or leave - nothing you say here will have an effect. There have been no followups from LL in spite of the promise that there would be, yet we know LL has been here - they sign their censorship. So if you are deluding yourself with the idea that LL has a "Community" - time to grow up. It's a business. That's all. You will be replaced by the next newbie. You are nothing.

Who is this snowFAKE person? And why are U giving her attention?

Back to more important issues... Is this legal? Because lets look things like Jack see them:

OS are selling well, lets give more prims and sell thousands of them... Then something happen... "oh ppl are leaving the state to go to OS? Are they making to much money?
That cant happen!!!"
So... What they do to resolve that? He rises the tiers and block the sales of OS lands owner/payor. That way, or u buy a full sim or u go to the state. Jack most have forgot that the money who pays his companie is our money.

My big question still is... is this all legal? Because maybe we should think like Jack and get some money to our pockets too!

People who already own open spaces and "overuse" them... That's just unfair to take it away. Believe it or not, it's disappointing to those of us who already pay tier on an openspace because it's just going to basically ruin my Second Life; along with many others. Jack, if you're trying to increase Linden Lab profits, this isn't the way. I know many people who are fed up with this and will quit on that very day if this goes through - people who generate a lot of cash flow into Second Life.

-Roo

PS: DON'T DO IT.

Thank you for fooling us into the tgought normal pp could own a SIm in SL!
If this goes then my group has to give up its sim and all od us will leve SL for good.
This may not count much but i allredy regrett every cent i spend on SL.

Because of the economic climate at the moment, I was considering getting four OS sims, but with the increase in tier, this has put that on hold.

These would have been rented, and the landlord I had chosen was only charging marginally above the LL fee which was to go in some small way to pay his setup costs.

Luckily a friend pointed out this annoucement before I had ordered them, so I am one of the lucky ones.

Anyone who just thinks a deal is to good to be true, will probably find out that it is. I know and understand the limitations of the OS sims, and that would not have been a problem.

A 66% increase on a service fee is inexcusable in the current world situation.

If there is a problem with lag or resources being drained caused by these OS sims then yes, I agree something needs to be done, but not at the cost of people who use them responsibly.

LL have made a mess of land and land pricing before, and with the release of OS sims, it went someway to freeing up land and reducing costs for the small user. Now this is being pushed away.

Although it has probably been mentioned here already, one solution would be to bring back the 1800 prim void sims for people who are using it properly, and release the OS sims to the community by allowing premimum membership customers the right to buy and manage their own land without having to own a full sim.

This way you kill off the people who are exploiting the sims and possibly other users, by giving control back to the people who pay your wages.

On the very front page of your website, you say "Your World. Your Imagination", so prove it... If it is my world, give me the option to control it fully, and if it is my imagination, then allow me to imagine reasonably priced land available to all.

The question of legality of the change would really depend on the state and country someone would file suite against them in. LL has lost TOS legality issues in PA already so a class action lawsuit could actually devisate SL especially with the ammount of money the estate owners have invested into SL. Estate owners pump millions into LL every month.

Hey Jack Linden ! Let´s talk about a subject that I know a lot ? BUSINESS !!!


First...if I understood good...

You wanna increase the rate just because the openspace product was improved and people loved ? I really cannot understand this sense.Improve products is a way to preserve customers.At least I read this in some marketing books.

But if I'm wrong: I remember the void improvement: Decreased the price, increased the prims.So, if was made for light use: Why increase the prim count ? and if was not made for other purposes: Why decrease the price to sell more ?

There is no really sense in all of this, dont you agree ? Maybe the market of Mainland is having so much loss because ppl wanna live in voids ? Shaw this the real true ?

Ah, and there is other thing that I really cannot understand: The entertanment market is the more sensitive market to crisis.In a moment where all the world is living a globalized crisis do you really believe that the best practice is increase the prices ? Wake up ! SL is a globalized system !!!

Now, lets talk about other subject that Im really good too: SL Economy

So, live in voids is awesome !! lotta area, lotta water...less neighboors...more privacy and if you wanna live alone in a entire Void, it's affordable too.Was some of the best step I saw from Linden Labs.This can make more current residents happy and bring more new residents too, dont ou agree ? Maybe the improvement of the products (and service too ! SL is each time more stable !!! ty !!) is the reason that every sunday SL establish a new record of online users.Make sense, or not ?

So, about the impact on economy...

First....increase 66% if obviouslly not fair !!!! Everybody that I know will abandon !
Second: I work with prefab Homes (Im Ayruma Owner): If Lands is a good deal, ppl will buy more homes.More money will get inside SL, right ?
If ppl buy more homes....the furniture market will be good too because land pull homes and homes pull furniture and furniture pull the animatations and pose market and ever and ever...can you realize the chain reaction of this kind of act ?

Take a gander at this, people! I guess because they make the rules, those rules never apply to themselves, only everyone else as they see fit. Uh-huh....yeh, okay. Whatever to make a buck. How many times has this product been paid for....over and over and over? How many millions do they make on a monthly basis? Greed is all I see.

(copy/paste this URL in your browser and hit GO. click on the pic on the page to get a larger view)
http://s220.photobucket.com/albums/dd292/wenmac9999/Second%20Life%20Protest/?action=view&current=overusedOS-LL3withprims2.jpg

Disgusting.

is this more to do with the global recession than in world sim usage

perhaps there is more to this than meets the eye - perhaps it is the RW investors and other companies who funnel their traffic in SL who are demanding more money due to their own RL loses elsewhere or increased charges (fuel mortgages, i mean SL must rent offices) and this is the only way to raise extra dough without cause the entire collapse of sl

worrying times

:\ :|

I don't know, I remember looking when they dropped the prices on them and seeing that the openspace sims weren't meant for anything other than fluff places, ocean... forest... decorative surrounding areas.

I had built a forest, at one time, using sculpted trees, sculpted terrain, sculpted rocks... the area it was in was only 11,000 some square meters but i had used around 900 prims on it and wasn't a particularly dense forest. I'd imagine that's the reason that they increased prims and lowered prices, it was so people could make such places, that are meant to make the world a nicer looking place.

What happened is that land barons started buying them up like mad, and renting them out as residentual sims, business sims, dance clubs and such. Then people started seeing that they could rent these huge areas, really cheap, and I'm sure it ended up affecting mainland sales, as well as new island sales. I'm sure that because of all this it ended up taking a big chunk of the revenue that Linden was making and it started hurting them financially. If their profits drop too low, it hurts their ability to expand and improve Second Life.

If Linden is guilty of anything, it's not not laying down, and enforcing, specific limitations on the openspace sims. Anyhow, I just see this as cause and effect from too many land barons abusing the openspace sims by using them in a way that they're not intended to be used.

Bottom line... They SOLD a product, with an up front fee... They need to deliver what they SOLD, or offer a refund to people that purchased in the last several month, due to Linden Labs heavily promoting them.... Period.

If not they WILL be sued. Regardless of what their TOS says. You cant write a TOS that violates the law. Anti-Trust is a federal statitute.

If I ever own another piece of mainland it will be a tiny parcel with a notecard giver in it telling people how to find me in OpenSim (or where ever else I may land). I will never "own" mainland again and I will never willingly agree to pay tier on a piece of land that is so grossly effected by the residents around me with no remedies or solutions to improve my experience.

My first piece of land was on what was then "the new mainland." For one week I was blissfully happy, then a casino bought the parcel next to me and shoved part of his build into the back of my house and set all his machines to shout. Then the bonehead campers looking for a "job" started coming shouting for people to help them. Then the owner started putting in cat houses and amusement park rides that lagged the sim into oblivion. His intention was to drive the prices down and it worked. All the residents sold their parcels to him and left, and the lag increased. In the end my parcel was the only one left on the sim that was in the middle of his builds, and he needed my prims. Yes, I did manage to get my own back then, but my experience was ruined one week after buying the land and it was several months later, and several weeks of this person verbally abusing me to try to get me to sell my parcel to him at a reduced rate, before I got a remedy. I had long moved to an OS sim as my new residence by then.

Then I bought 16km/2 on yet another "new mainland" and wanted to create a different kind of shopping experience. I had 10 stalls, only 10, and the rest was a visually stunning asian themed park. Several people fell in love and got married in those gardens. The surrounding parcels sold to residents because they wanted a view of my gardens. I increased the value of the property and the user experience with my mall! How many can say that? Then the sim next door sold to a land baron who divided the ENTIRE SIM into 16m/2 parcels for ad farms. No joke, the entire sim. The people bordering my property hated the ad farms and sold, and those parcels got split up into 16m/2 properties, and then my beautiful mall was encased with ad farms and lagged beyond belief.

Opensims as light residences are attractive because they afford the player more control over their environment. Obviously that is more important to the average land owner in SL than prim count. LLs should see that trend and address it, instead of continuing to create land masses that are unpleasant experiences, whether aesthetically pleasing or not, and then artificially trying to force their constituency to use those land masses. The demand is obvious, the reasons for the demand are obvious. Supply the demand, don't try to change the demand to meet your own goals.

If I ever "own" mainland again it will be to place a notecard giver with instruction on how to find me because I liquidated my private island holdings in SL and left. At this rate, that's next.

Looking at the covenant for my OS sim, it clearly states that I have the use of 3750 prims. Now in my opinion, that means that that sim should be able to run with no adverse effects with all of those prims used, or I have clearly been sold a product by misrepresentation.

I don't know about US law, but in the UK this is an offence

So they thought we would build standalone forests, or waterways, in the middle of nowhere, unconnected to any other sims? What exactly is there to DO in such an area... if you're not even supposed to "live" there???

And I'm sorry but it doesn't take 3750 prims to build a beautiful forest or water sim. Most of that can be done with terraforming.

Some months ago I bought one of these for my group, to use as a base and home. We have a small shop area with our friends' products. Sometime there is lag, but less than on the mainland. I spent many hours shaping the sim into a snowflake shape and patterning it to reflect the ideas of our female group, so that the whole sim is a kind of metaphor or living part of our roleplay. The traffic can be 10 000 sometimes...but that isn't campers but just residents hanging out. Once we held a Miss Doll of SL contest that most of us felt was our best SL experience ever. People have fallen in love there; designed things never before seen; experienced fantasies and drama. We can only just afford 29 000. Our Region manager is helpful and isn't trying to rip us off. An increase of that much has just left us gutted.