Openspace Announcement Discussion with Jack Linden

What Qie said. The overwhelming need now for me is for LL to restore my consumer and business confidence (I have both hats on in SL) in their hosting this platform. I'm a business in SL and in RL. I need to plan. I get enough surprises in biz as it is; I don't need them from my suppliers.

It's definitely still a game. When you think of it in the perspective of a game, its not that big a deal.

"Oh, well, the price of my favorite videogame went up $50 per month that I am in no way obligated to pay, what a tragedy."

normal day at the Linden Estate Service office

Yes but ** you didnt just invest 20,000 USD and then get screwed over by the very same company you invested with. So why dont you stick your head in a meat grinder and do us all a favor?

It's not a game to the 200+ universities not to mention non-profit organizations, support groups, government agencies, corporations who use it for training. Whatever it is to you - it isn't just a game to us!

I pay tier to LL for 8 opensims.

It's deeply frustrating to understand that they couldn't care less.
BECAUSE THEY WILL GET AWAY WITH THIS BS.

For LL's point of view it is a good business-decision, it is an "optimizing revenue" - action.

Yes, many current OS-owners will drop their Opensims and go away. But in a very short time new ones will come and calculate their business-model on the new conditions and will buy Fullsims or Opensims and offer them to their friends and tenants based on the new pricing-scheme. AND it will work. Prices for land will be higher and the total number of sims lower for some time. But supply and demand will level and below the line Linden Lags (R) is the winner.

All that will invest in the future will some fine day be ripped off too if Linden Lags (R) considers it profitable to do so. They are not a "fun factory", they are a BUSINESS.

We are not individuals to care about for them, we are a mass of customers that will show a certain and quite predictable behaviour. And plenty of new ones will come and some guy that may have never visited the SL-Homepage as of today will buy my abandoned sims early next year. My friends and me have invested and we loose. The guy that buys them next year will invest and will eventually loose. Linden Lags (R) will win today and they will win next year. This is business.

Yes, it is frustrating but this is how things are from my very limited point of view.
Yes, it is frustrating but Linden Lags (R) could not care less.

Trin

I have read many posts by Snowflake, and I have problems understanding the logic.

It is true that nobody is forcing anyone to buy anything from Linden Lab.

It is also true that nobody is forcing you to eat in a restaurant, but if you chose to do so, it do not mean that they can offer you poisoned food, and then later say: " Nobody forced you to eat here"

Nobody is forcing you to buy a certain car, but if you chose to do so, and it keeps breaking down contantly. The seller cannot just say " Nobody forced you to buy a Ford".

The same goes for Linden Lab, if they sell a product, they are responsible for it.

In Europe we have consumer protection laws that are even quite strict. Since Linden lab is selling this product to Europe, it would mean they are also under these laws. Not being a lawyer, but what they now do seems illegal to me. I hope someone with knowledge of consumer protection laws in Europe, especially Scandinavia would look into this.

Lala

I was responding to Qie, who said it is not ready for business. It's not, in my opinion either.

It must be very frustrating to people who use it for business. It used to also be very frustrating to me when I used it that way. I have learned to look at it in a realistic manner, and for me, it's not viable for business. Apparently it's not viable for your business either if you can't deal with the new changes.

Linden Lab are thugs, they are bullies. They are worse than the lowest piece of slime. If you think your getting away with this Mr Linden, you have another thing coming.

Jack We wait for your reply, where are you??????

While I can see why you feel you need to raise prices, I think it is unfair to the people who already have the low prim SIMs.
I see that a raise in prices is what you believe you needed.
I would ask that that you woud agree to grandfather already existing sims.
I'm afraid that if this does not happen alot of us will lose our homes and favorite places in SL due to the fact that we will no longer be able to afford them.
Thank You for your consideration of this matter.

Jack is just the messenger. I'm quite sure this was done with executive knowledge and decision making.

Firelight

Next time don't invest 20,000 USD in a company that has shown itself time and time again not to be a viable investment vehicle. Especially not without a detailed, written contract, detailing what each party expects from the other. There's your favor, a bit of advice.

I'm sorry you are so miserable that you must resort to saying violent words against me when you know I am merely pointing out the truth.

Some caution here: First, these two sims make good "poster children" but, for better or worse, they don't actually prove what one may want them to prove. Because they're Linden managed, LL can move them to full-prim sims any time they want. They've never officially announced these things "open to the public," so finding a work-in-progress by LDPW that's hosted on an OpenSpace while being completed doesn't prove much--especially because we have no way of knowing what CPU-sharing arrangement LL has hard-wired into the configuration. For all we know, this may be the only OpenSpace on its CPU, made OpenSpace just for the purpose of forcing resource constraints on the build itself, to make sure there's plenty of head-room for avatar visitors when the thing moves to its eventual full-prim destination.

(And even if that's not true, they can always *say* it's true, defeating the argument.)

I also have to caution about anti-trust. A court is really not going to go for this argument because, to a court, Second Life == Open grids == Lively == IMVU == god knows what... Facebook, maybe. Also, anyone who's watched a US anti-trust action knows that any success would be more likely to benefit one's grandchildren. There may be grounds for a class action, but anti-trust is *really* not the direction to take here.

A good point. But given the current RL economy I wonder how many people can afford to come and try the experiment. They would be less likely Linden Lab's history of making these kind of changes was generally known. But I suspect only the success stories will be widely distributed to the potential new people.

Firelight

That's interesting. So, if someone is given the order to handle the PR on a company decision, then they should be fired if the customers don't like the decision?

But the person making the decision should keep their job?

He may be in charge, but a decision like this was probably made at the very top.

Firelight

You can only abuse your customers so long then they find other business. It may not happen overnight but it will happen.

Ok People Get A Clue. First Linden Lab Doubles The Prims And Brings The Prims And Pricing In Line With Regular Estates. They Heavily Marketed Them And Sold Thousands. Now They Think They Can Raise The Tier By 67% And Nobody Will Say Anything. Wrong!

Linden Lab You Are A Corrupt And Criminal Organization That Needs To Be Brought Down. You Are The Worst Of The Worst. You Are Less Than The The Scum That Sits On A Frogs Warts. You Are Nothing.

I really do understand your rage Kalyrra. This action is, indeed, criminal. I believe that Lindens are also running the risk of become snared in more stringent consumer protection laws outside of the United States. Regrettably, they are also aware that class action suits are also hard to bring to bear outside the US.

I tinkered with the idea of porting some of my business activities to SL, initially as a trial. On my daily wanderings, however, I ran into some problems and found that the Lindens were not only most unhelpful, but were not in the slightest bit interested in customer service. I encountered some extremely questionable activities in world and when I questioned them by fax, phone, etc., I was ignored. What would happen, I thought, if I were to risk my business being exposed to such an environment? The answer was obvious and so after much consideration, I decided to use SL purely for entertainment value. Honestly, there is nothing here anyway that would be an asset to my business in the slightest.

ON top of all that, we now have this outrageous decision delivered with all the arrogance of a mandarin. The picture is pretty clear. No matter if the decision is rescinded or not, it appears that this company is ethically challenged if not downright criminal.

It is after all a game for me but for others with big money involved, my heart goes out to you. Despite what your head was telling, you continued to offer the benefit of the doubt to these people and you have been shafted once again.

I will continue looking for an alternative to Second Life, and there are a few about to launch, remove myself from this environment shortly and take a shower.

Vic

Imagined conversation with LL:

OS owner - I hear you are having a price increase with OS sims
LL - yes
OS owner - Why is that?
LL - the sims are being overloaded and abused
OS owner - oh, so charging more for the same sim makes the server run better?
LL - no, but our accountant says we'll make more
OS owner - So what are you plans to resolve the overload problems?
LL - to raise OS fees and upgrade to class 5 servers
OS owner - so will that solve the problem?
LL - no, but the overload will load faster for you
OS owner - oh, so charge more to have the same problem delivered faster?
LL - yes. May I have your updated billing info?
OS owner - NO!

You said it like it is. Linden Lab has committed a criminal action this time and no, they won't get away with it. They probably figured since they screwed everyone so many times before, that we wouldnt mind. Wrong! This time you went too far Linden Lab. And ultimately i hold M Linden responsible, especially if he cant fire that jack@ss that runs his estate services.

I Have read up page 83. I skimmed through the next 30 pages to see if Jack got back. No such luck. I never post. But some how testimonials are the order of the day. It's a good thing. I read forums all the time. Never have I seen one more pertinent.


I've been around a while. Have moved my concept 5 times. Half because of Linden Labs policy changes. Half because of greedy land barons. The odd one out of the 5 was to satisfy a partner who didn't understand "to good to be true". Sorry about that one Gigs. No question you are one of the best.

I run a non profit Spanish school on the the sim Instituto Espanol. I was thrilled to finally have found through Open Space a chance to run my concept economically. I had no idea I was abusing the Open Space guidelines. I don't find at fault my landlord. I was informed that server performance may be spotty, there were limitations in scripts, not to exceed my prim count. etc. But was never informed that all I could plant was trees.

My landlord didn't lie to me. The rules changed when prims went from from 1850 to 3700. Linden Labs changed the rules. And nothing was clear. For those of you crying prosecute the abusers....please understand that Linden Labs created the abuse. I can't speak for all of the over users. I'm sure some were malicious now that i read the posts. But under no circumstances was it my responsibility to research Open Spaces back to the first gleam in a Linden's eye.

I bought the product as it was represented by the limitations. Prim count, script conservation, and as much nature as possible. I'm doing my best to make nature a part of my theme including topographically correct representations of features like volcanoes and mountain ranges. If no one was supposed to live there, if no one was supposed to have a business there, why didn't the Lindens just say 3700 trees only permitted. The abusers didn't screw the "appropriate use" for OS owners. The Lindens did.

I've spent the last 24 hours analyzing my OP sim. I can cut out some frills. I can put in more ocean, I can get closer to what is an ambiguous definition of appropriate use. What I can't do is turn my educational non profit into trees.

Don't hate me for using my prims. Don't hate my landlord for thinking that doubling the prims meant expanded use of OS was acceptable. It's only the Linens to blame for this one. And unfortunately it seems to be a trend.

Some are thinking this was all intentional on the part of the Lindens. It's not out of the question. This could all have very well been a set up. Plotters ans schemers tend to plot and scheme.

Wilson

I broke no laws, i read all i could find, i asked all the questions... not once was i told i could not have my home on an open sim. Yet i am to pay for someone elses misjudgement??
Is this not illegal to change the rules after the fact?
Can there be no compromise?
I am floored that a month after purchasing this is what comes about. No warning, Have i just donated to the Linden christams party fund or what??
Well your game your rules i guess... but i still have a choice... i dont have to play, i dont have to pay.
i cannot justify a 66% price increase in my game... especially with the value of the Australian dollar! Bad bad timing guys, well i guess my haven will go, my money lost, i guess no point being a paid member either, i will just go back to being a freeloader, much cheaper and there doesnt seem to be any benefit to actually being a member anyway, now this on top... too much... pulling out
thanx for the ride its been fun

Vic,

Would you care you outline the kind of things you've discovered in world, not just what we're observing here in this instance? Share them with the rest of the community at large? here or in a blog or?

B

I am very disappointed by the announcment and the intended increase of prices. It disappoints me as customer renting a low prim space for actually having more space and less prims.

This option will become less affordable for me and the person who actually owns my parcel. I might even loose my home parcel because the owner returns the sim.

The consequences for me as a customer are that I have already set my account from premium back to basic. I don't want mainland or a parcel with the full number of prims. I think that a lot of people feel the same about this. Maybe its worth considering this in future actions against customers (and it is AGAINST US) because we, your customers, make the platform Second Life as it is.