Openspace Announcement Discussion with Jack Linden

You're mistaken. Second Life is considered to be an Internet Service Provider and within the virtual domain of Second Life, Linden Lab has a monopoly on the virtual land market, often changing land prices at whim, giving themselves an unfair advantage over their competitors, the Land owners of Second Life who also sell and rent land.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antitrust

If anyone does not think this 66% price hike does not effect them simply because they may not own nor lease an OP sim, then think again. These things tend to have a domino effect, which can make or break an already unstable virtual and social economy, thus creating a mass exodus of users from SL. Panic? No, not at all. We can use our voices of persuasion to fight this. It is not too late for LL to reconsider their decisons and options.

A worldwide economical rececession is not the time to be greedy.

i hope your happy with this decision as full sim tier will go to $395-$495 soon to be onpar

Be aware that post numbers are dependent on your current view, and are not constant.

I agree with both of you Liliyan McCarey and Junkyarddog Yao

Due to thier enterprice rights we can't suit that to law forms but we need better than that:
a Virtual word regulation law (american min and more) that way we be protected and LL too by being suported by the government like all mojor rl business.

I work in rl business too I know what I said about.

as i stated before they can control what they want as it is there business, everyone seems to stray from that as if they actually own the land. i own quite a few sims and i been hurt by LL so i know about all this. everyone here is guilty of overbearing the grid with open space sims. i bought two for boating but i am tired of competing against others who have an advantage over me when open space sims are cheaper for the customer than a regular sim parcel with the same amount of prim. the people who have created the issue have been using the tactic of disinformation to there customers for self gain but in turn also misusing the open sims. the only thievery is from the land lords using open space sims as a source of income when that's not what they are suppose to be used for!

Noted -- thanks, I didn't realize

But I have a half sim that I'm listed as the owner on. What this sounds like to me is a land grab. A way to force people to give up what they have with no compensation.

Class action lawsuit time?

Another effect that I can see will probably be greatly reduced income for Second Life as developers and individuals give up their "Land" and the income disappears.

The most important effect I can see though is the loss of trust in the system that will happen when you put these rules into effect. Your business is based on performance and trust.

The product you deliver must be stable, usable, and the pricing must be such that it does not destroy the ability of your clients to pay it.

I used to work for eBay. Their concern for profits and their greed destroyed many of their customers ability to do business on the site. Those customers moved to Amazon and to other sites which were more customer friendly.

Just a thought.

But it is too late, and that really is the point. LL has demonstrated that it will make silly decisions any time it wishes, completely disregarding its negative impact on literally tens of thousands of residents. Although this recent announcement about a 67% price increase for OS goes beyond silly to really quite stupid.

If LL pulls back and doesn't go through with this outrageous price hike, what then? It has demonstrated that it hasn't a clue what goes on in this virtual world of SL, and it doesn't care about the impact its decisions will have on the residents. Sure, it pulls back and then a few months later it will make another stupid and greedy decision.

I think I am outta here. LL is completely uniformed about its own virtual world.

don't know if this has already been covered here, but if you are a fan of hypocracy, go to

http://slurl.com/secondlife/Mos%20Ainsley/132/137/48

or check this out...

http://jira.secondlife.com/secure/attachment/19920/DoubleStandard.jpg

it's a moon base on a Maintenance group Governor Linden owned Open Space sim with 3196 prims used, hardly and inch of "open space". tons of vehicles, tons of scripts

way to lead by example LL....

btw, it's not a 1/2 bad build, too bad it's obvious ABUSE of the intended use of open spaces sims.

I own one open sims and was plany to get a second one to help some ppl and for my clan and group and be soon a full member to how it looks like it not happen to much money you ask for it i open sims for my friends and some rent it out and i don't make to money to pay for it self i help some ppl out to an let them stay on my sims to for free that have some place to meet how it looks like I can not do this to soon because this hight price you kick some ppl on the street and over load some sims where there can hang out to have some fun or there can not get in because to full .
with this price raise i can not do this to get some nice looking land to share with ppl here
or newbies what come to see my place and have fun it open to everyone not close for my groupe. how i see lots off store get out to or club orsome ppl who have only a smale place to live on and next you see the price go up to when you buy thinks in SL so with this what you plan to raise the price not working out and it stop not there.
right now i see i be never a full member because off SS raise the price or can don much more for the ppl here.
I see mthe main land it looks like big mess and i don't like one bit off it not like my place nice open place where we can relax and have fun
you not fix problems you only make more and whe i report some off it it never get read in beginn with and you never give us a change to help you or SL.....
with this price raise you kick lots off ppl out and crash more on SL and LL think who cares not LL we care most off the ppl here we try do the best here to help and enjoy SL here
in this point you don't help me nothing and you don't like give more prims thats we can make more beautyfull our land what we rent our own give us a break LL
I like to hear what ppl have to say who make nice place to have fun and relax there when there give up the land here in SL because off LL mist stakes what the try to do on the first next years and don't fixe to old one first
we are not second class ppl here and please respect what we try to do here not mess everything up . thanks LL

My opinion will have little or no impact at all, but as Jack Linden says he will read all posts, I may as well say something.

I am quite sad. Linden Labs will destroy all confidence in the SL economy. Oh sure, they know, as do I, that it will recover, and life will go on. They are counting on it. But my friend can only make money in SL by posing as a prostitute and giving virtual blow jobs to men who get turned on by cartoon sex. This move continues the trend away from a real economy, except of course in RL where Linden Labs does ok.

I won;t be investing in LL via SL. I wish others would do the same. The only way LL will listen is if their profits fall dramatically - otherwise they will continue saying to us, "go f#$% yourself".

Its not the fact that you disagree, its the coldness and calousness in which it is done that bothers people enough to call on you directly.

What have I ever done to you that makes you feel as if it is OK to repeatedly attack me personally in the forums? Besides the obvious of having a differing opinion on the policy?

I happened to ping Renee about something else, as Renee was talking with a group of Residents who were at that moment this issue. I took a couple of minutes and spoke with them to say that I hear the concerns being voiced, and that while I can't say what will happen with this issue, I assure you that you will hear back, in this thread, from me.

Of course Jack will post here too.

Best,
-- Katt

This certainly is an interesting find on visiting i find its full of lagged out vehicles kindly provided by the labs and plenty of other scripted features time dilation is barely stable i doubt this is at all "intended use" and is indeed a sign of gross hypocracy come check it out folks.

No good will come of this announcement by LL.

I'd love to know who is advising LL on their strategies.

Just got the news...been offworld for some RL stuff...

Thinking back on how we got into an OPENSPACE sim. We had a about 5 pieces of land in Estate that totaled more prims but less privacy for about the same $$. We use our SIM as a place of ...natural beauty with a few walk/in out homey spaces inside. Usually a total of maybe 3 or 4 AVIS on a very busy day. IF I had known that the prim usage was..to be say...a thousand less than it STATED or...that you were to only use 50 low stress scripts etc. IF THERE HAD BEEN ANY CLEAR BOUNDARIES STATED UPFRONT...a warning shot over the bow. I would have ..perhaps grumbling...cut back and stayed with land. It's at the highest place $$ I can afford. But we pushed it for the love of creation and the natural beauty we can experience there.

It's like this...

You have a puppy, who you've never trained. You don't teach him to not dig. You don't teach him to not bite, you don't teach him to heel when you take a walk. THEN one day, out of the frustration of having a digging, biting puppy that trips you when you take him for a walk...you take him to the pound and tell the county officer that you FOUND him somewhere...wha la..problem gone!

NOPE...

See the issue LIES WITHIN.

If you teach us, we can learn. IF IF IF we break the rules...then INDIVIDUALLY we should be reprimanded.

Thing is, you didn't teach, you didn't warn, YOU are just dropping us ALL off at the pound.

I've been here since 2006. I tell all sorts of IMPORTANT people in the Corporate worlds about how great SL is. Maybe you need to grow up and I need to shut up for awhile.

...The rising prices will make me lose my land. FYI...the world is in a melt down.

ALURA ELVEHJEM

Nemo, you are exactly right, but one more product criteria I would add is Predictability, AKA as a Stable Business Environment. There are those that would say we need to build that into the business model, but who can plan for 66% cost increases overnight?

LL appears to have stepped into deep doo-doo over this one, as it has unleashed a lot of festering setiment that goes back to the last island investment value decrease, the Great Sim Flooding episode and subsequent land devaluations, the casino head-chopping, the Great Bank Debacle, and quite a few other things that have cost the SL residents quite a bit of REAL money that was invested in this virtual environment. I can't even count the number of times that SL got near 50k rsidents online consistently and then LL did something stupid and killed that off.

There are only so many times that a customer base can be abused. and LL is nearing that cap very rapidly, if not over it already. There are also a finite number of customers, especially when economic times get tough, and right now, times ARE tough. LL had better wake up and start delighting customers, because I know for a fact that this has been the final straw for many. Nobody wants to invest in a virtual world business when all of their effort or investment of time or $ can be swept away in an instant.

I think we would all agree that the LL owned mainland is the biggest drag on resources going. One of the biggest things they promote is NO COVENANT for this land. Isn't that another way of saying - no rules apply to you have at it? Where are the guidelines for that land? Where are the slaps on the hand for the abuse there?

If you have a full prim mainland sim and there is a club on 1/4 of it and that club attracts 60 avatars at any given time, how is that fair to the other 3/4's of the sim? Do the blaring spinning signs, the clubs, the malls etc use less resources then a couples pose ball being used in someone's home?

and let's not forget the tier on mainland is 195/monthly for this savage drain on resources. why then is it different for open space sims that share a server with other sims? it is the exact same analogy for a full prim sim that has more then one tenant - if one abuses it the rest suffer. Where are the price increases for them, those that pay 100 dollars less to begin with? or is it just that those of us that want a little peace and quiet are meant to support the linden land owned masses?

How could it possibly be justified? and by the way for all of you that say it was clearly defined that it was meant to be used for sailing or light recreation? Well then I ask you as well; how is sailing a sailboat with three friends across water that might have pretty trees(using scripts) and scenic falls(using scripts) etc, any different then a couple in their home sitting in front of a fire and enjoying some quiet time together.

It can't be justified. It's that simple.

But....if you look at the end of the year balance sheet - oh well here are some interesting facts. Let's make OS so enticing to users that they run out to buy them - with the only "threat" being "if this land is used for anything else then it's intended use there will be no support from linden labs regarding lag issues"

( these numbers are used as examples )

20,000 open space sims sold = 5,000,000 usd
20,000 new sims additional tier created for three months = 4,500,00 usd
5,000 full sims converted to keep up with competition = 500,000 usd

Now the hatchet comes down and we are notified of the "criminal price increase"

none of the above numbers change whether land is abandoned or converted back, and unless more then 40 percent of the new sims are abandoned they STILL get the increase in monthly tier they wouldn't have had to begin with - let's further say that now 2500 of the sims that were split are converted back - well hey there is another 250,000 usd on the books before the end of the year.

Aww Baylie Snookums, I so sowwy I do not agree with you. Please let me lie down and be picked on by you, until you feel better about the whole thing.

/me cuddles Baylie and licks her boots

There. Now your problem is solved.

no offense, but befor or after january 1st?

we want answers!

60% Increase... ya kiddin me right? Linden Labs just enjeced SL with a slow death.

Like my fellow compadres, I going to be setting up my own OpenSim. Maybe one day.. sone of these guys in SL will pick up a book on basic Economics and read about "Economies of scale." pathetic.

Smack!

Well, intended use is "using the official LL viewer without internal or external modification", that's from the TOS.

So if openspaces allow xx amount of prims, yy scripts and zz avatars, then thats what they're intended for.

It's quiet simple, it's peak season for LL they want extra revenue and they got it, people abandoning openspaces = good for LL (they just got cost of hardware purchase sponsored by those who abandon), those who dont abandon will create a 67% greater profit margin for them in the future.