Openspace Announcement Discussion with Jack Linden

They are likely running blades and quad cpu's all quad cores makes it 64 OSR per server x 36 blades per server rack. thats 2304 open sims per rack. at 75 bucks a month a measly 172,800 of income per server rack per month ..... sheesh how do they keep the power on.

I don't know how they are set up. but 16 sims per quad core chip has gotta be bad. LOL

If only they were unregulated. Then they wouldn't have had the "give loans to deadbeats" programs shoved down their throat. We haven't had free markets in the United States in over 100 years. The last depression was caused and extended by government interference, why should this one be any different?

they run 4 normal sims per core... its the same thing, its also why you have "sime time other" thats lag caused by other sims on your processor as well as any sims you may touch borders with.


Also why they Move you sim to another server when your havign bad lag issues in order to get you on a less abused one.

They run 4 normal sims per chip, each on their own core. actually 2 per chip since i thought they were dual cores.

"But Openspaces differ from normal regions in one particularly significant way; unlike normal regions that effectively get a CPU to themselves on the server, there can be up to four Openspaces on a single CPU (so 16 on a quad core machine), sharing the resource (hence them being ‘light use’)."

All this talk of OS sims intended use is little more then subterfuge.

Well before LL engineered the rush to purchase OS sims by doubling the prim count, allowing them to be purchased singly (on demand), lowering the price (making them feasable for individual purchase). allowing them to be placed anywhere on the grid instead of tied to an estate (Privacy!)... well before any of that, the primary use of OS sims with 1875 prims on them was... guess what? residential.

Linden labs knew it, of course. Everyone did. Remember all the ads for 64k low prim sims? 1875 prims on 64ksqm was fetching between $96 and $105 - every ad boasting your own private paradise. Could anyone have missed it? LL certainly didnt. Seeing this use of the open space sims LL took the extraordinary step of... clamping down?

No... they doubled the prim count. They automated their purchase. They made them the most sought after product in SL history. What are the chances they thought everyone wanted an island full of water out in the middle of nowhere?

That move singlehandedly drove the land market into the wastebin.

So why would they be doing this now, after having engineered this mess in the first place? As somebody up there said... "follow the money".

Awhile back they devalued full prim sims by 40% and made all the changes to OS sims for one reason. to increase thier income from tiers. But they did it in a very deliberate way.

First they doubled the prims on OS sims - seemingly just a "gift" at the time. The effect was to increase the value of OS sims overnight. Alot of people bought alot of OS sims at $415 or so thinking they had just doubled in value with no additional cost, that was the bait. OS purchase tickets went through the roof for a couple months. For awhile island deliverys were taking 3 weeks and there were hundreds in queue to be delivered at any given time (yep I bought a few).

Net effect for LL was all those increased fees and tiers. and beyond the fees for OS sims were the fees to convert full prim sims to OS sims, since these new sims effectively killed the market for residential propery on them.

Then, as soon as the queue dried up and the rush was over, *boom*. Lets lower the price of full prim sims by 40% and lower the price of OS sims to $250, that was the switch. An obviously calculated timing. It was almost certainly already on the drawing board while they were pumping them out at the higher prices. And of course the new land store was almost ready now, so... new land rush.

In the meantime OpenSim had been getting a foothold and the writing was on the wall for Private Islands. Inside LL of course they had known this all along. They were/are selling something they know will be worthless soon enough.

Several months later now and the glut has all but killed the rental market, of course they arent selling OS sims anymore, what does that mean to LL? Oops, no new fees coming in, gotta do something about that.

So now this... increase the fees for OS sims, under the guise of course that that will resolve the "abusive usage" they so readily engineered into them. And whats the net effect going to be?

Private Islands that they just spent all this time pumping out to us for $millions are worthless. Those that dont abandon them will have to pay more fees to convert them back to full sims. Those that do abandon them? Well their tenants will have to live someplace...

Oh! Nautilus just opened up (again with the auspicious timing)! Why, alll those homeless tenants can go bid on 1k plots for $300!

This has been about one thing from the beginning. LL knows it will lose the Private Island business as soon as the grids are up and interconnecting. In the end it will be SL and their mainland. So now we have the new "clean up the mainland" initiative. And now we have Nautilus. And to capture their market before the grids open up they need to kill off the existing landowners and get their tenants buying mainland.

Read between the lines. None of this is about community or even about infrastructure and load. Its about LL's bottom line and how they can protect it into the future. No amount of pleading for fairness will have much of an effect, and if they introduce any amount of redress it will come with a fee, just like last time, Free Islands! (just pay the tier!)

They are done with us (Private Island Landowners), they have nearly picked our pockets clean. Now they just need to steal our tenants and push us off the cliff. The only question left is... where to build the cliff? No worries, they will have a nice new continent for it just as soon as the homeless masses are hungry for mainland again

i agree Sierra Janus sorry lindenlag but ive found more cheaper setups and 70000 players are really nothin with soo much money invested (compared to other mmo) sorry to say but give us a better second life or just give up its the only solution when lindenlag team arent able to handle so much resources

The whole text is about the best phrased post I read here so far, recapping it to the core... thanks! Nice vacation from the Snowflakes and Simbas of this world.

Thank you Katt for meeting us some of us region holders in world. We appreciate your time to hear our opinions and will await your answers.

Renee Faulds

Nice to know - was that announced anywhere?

Snowflake, I fail to understand why you are posting here if you have nothing but seemingly uncaring words for people who are angry about something UNFAIR happening to them in SL. Trust me, if it were you, I'm sure that we would be hearing about it for days on end. Part of the constitution here in the US is the right of free speech, and the people here are doing just that, speaking freely, as are you. But might I suggest, if you have nothing better to do than argue semantics with everyone else, that you find another place to do it, because honestly, with the problem at hand, I doubt Jack or anyone else at LL wants to be reading argumentitive posts such as yours.

Onto the meat and the potatoes of the post now ... LL, Jack, M .. you cannot possibly tell us that you didn't envision this happening. You made the price of private estates/islands too expensive for most players in the beginning, and then you dropped the price, true, but now the people owning them can't make ends meet. Then along comes OS. It seems to be a wonderful compromise! Can't own a full sim because of the price? How about an O
S? Sure, there's not as many prims, and its intended for light use, but for the person just wanting to have a house and a few friends over to visit without being griefed (mainland), it was PERFECT. But now ... not so many people buying on the mainland, and loads buying OS. Even some landlords buying them and renting them out for houses. I fail to see how this is a misuse of an OS sim. Sure, if someone has a club on an OS sim and its running loads of scripts, using all available prims, and has massive traffic - I could see that as a misuse. But, you sold these OS islands with 3750 prims, with no avi limits, with no script limits ... You cannot tell me that you didnt have an inkling that people, going by human nature as they are, would not try to use them to make some money by renting houses, running a small business, etc. Its simply human nature to do so.

My suggestions?

1. Stop selling OS sims. Right now, tonight. No more selling = the servers wont get "overloaded" more than they already might be.

2. Don't raise the fee. The average land owner, be it small or large, has been tossed around enough already.

3. IF you are, in fact, concerned with the lack of purchase of mainland parcels, improve the mainland! Its a basic premise that, if something isnt selling, you look at what makes it more attractive to the buyer. After all, isnt this how you ended up with so many OS's?

4. Create an SL council. An intermediary between LL and the SL world. Meet weekly, daily, whatever it takes, but find out what the problems are in the eyes of the every day paying SL resident. No matter how silly you might think the problems are, take them seriously! The paying SL residents pay your salaries, after all.

5. Use said council as a tool to aid you in bringing back what SL stood for in the beginning... a place where creativity and enthusiasm flourished, a place where people could come after a hard day's word and relax, a place to take in a concert from a musician that we might otherwise have never gotten to hear... all of the wonderful things that I heard about SL when I first joined up. When all of us first joined up!

6. Realize, that just as we all make errors, LL is not infallable either. Its not always the fault of the residents, or in the least, not ALL residents.

I'm sure that my remarks will likely get flamed by someone, likely Snowflake, but I refuse to believe that some sort of compromise cannot be reached here. Doing things the way that you are now is only going to cost LL money in the end.

Although I earlier posted a few questions and sugggestions (I mistakenly believed that they might be addressed by LL), I must say that after reading all the posts, and speaking to many people in-world today that any faith I had in SL is just about completely gone. My business partner and I own 40 estates, both full prim and OS. We don't own them to take money out of SL, we own them to provide people with somewhere to create, build, and call their own, and many months we barely cover the tier with the rent that we do collect.

I have gone through this entire thread, and am both heartened and saddened - heartened by the great number of well thought out posts by people who have believed in SL, who have invested not only money, but parts of themselves to create their Second Life, and I am saddened by the complete lack of response from LL (yes Jack replied once and didn't say anything really meaningful), not to mention the apparent utter disregard and lack of respect that LL seems to have for its members.

This is the same Second Life that recently held Burning Life - a celebration of community spirit and creativity - and it is many of the people that make Second Life such an extaordinary place that are the same ones that are commenting here - commenting about their outrage of such a blatently wrong announcement, and about an unjustified increase in pricing. LL knew exactly what they were doing when they flooded the market with cheap and easily available OS sims after reducing the prices and increasing the prim count - if they say otherwise, then they are just admitting to their own mismanagement - either way, they are in the wrong in making such a unilateral decision. Will some people stay with SL - sure, will a lot of them leave - definitely!

Can LL afford these losses? Possibly, but if I were a stockholder, right now I'd be pissed that the company is about to lose a lot of what was previously steady income. Oh I'm sure some number cruncher has made a nice sheet showing these losses to be 'acceptable' in the long run, only time will tell that or not. What is NOT acceptable is treating loyal members like this - notice I said members, not customers - while we are all customers, we are also members of a community. While LL may have created the environment, it is the community that brings people here and keeps them here, and as evidenced by the great number and quality of many of the posts here today, this new policy is a direct attack upon our community. In my wildest dreams, I hope that someone with the power, and the understanding will see these comments, and finally realize that this is seriously wrong, then do something to make it right - if not, then the words that someone was shortly banned for come to mind, and my money, my loyalty, and most importantly to the number crunchers, my recommendations to companies regarding Second Life will come to an end.

Gee, sounds like your average teleport to the mainland? **ba-dum cha** :*)

LL got through the threats and ridicules by people who had full sims when they upped the price by $100 USD. I don`t think they really care about people who are/were on openspace sims.

Plus, I think they`re lying to us.

There is a massive protest going on in http://slurl.com/secondlife/Linden%20Estate%20Services/165/130/40

I Think This is the worst thing that could happen. Fair enough If you want to go And Change things For the better Or Stop misuse of openspace sims. But Linden Labs.. YOU ARE KILLING SL. You wonder why there has been a decrease In The amount Of Players in Sl it is because of changes like this. look how many pissed of people are here. If you want to bring in restrictions fine. But dont just say hey because of overload jack the prices up. PUT IN RESTRICTIONS! To stop people using them as clubs or all the prims up Or As A massive Shop. Do Something Fair and Not punish Everyon Who uses only Like 1000 Prims And Has a forest Or Open Land. Everyone Is pissed and i no for a fact everyone will sellup And You will loose alot of people, kill Business and we will all just go to private grids. This Is the worst thing Ever that could have. If this goes through your killing openspace sims and all to line your pockets. Put restrictions or Something BUT DONT Increase The prices. or I for one will sell up all Of my openspace sims and Wash My lands of linden Labs!

Have you ever studied law? The terms of service provided by Linden Research amount to exclusion clauses. Certainly in THIS country courts take a very dim view of onerous exclusion clauses. They will often look instead to the intention of the contracting parties.

In this particular case in hand, with openspace sims I would look at the opening up of the land market, changing of openspace sim selling rules increase prims and unique placement of sims as an intention that people might use them for a good deal more than some water, a few linden trees and the odd bench.

In a court case you terms of service you seem to hold so dearly can be turned entirely worthless on the whim of a judge looking for an equitable solution. Someone mentioned Promissory Estoppel. I believe misrepresentation was also mentioned.

They are things worth considering before you continue spouting your nonsense, Baloo. Unless you're simply trying to see how many people on here you can annoy.

I have seen a fair amount of what I have felt are ludicrous ideas and solutions from Linden Research over the last couple of years, but I think that the response to this particular one alone merits a little more thought than your somewhat banal response of "Well you should've read the TOS."

Go away, read more about what is going on here, perhaps grab a Law book or two, and then, when you've grown up, then perhaps you can re-enter the conversation.

My apologies to all the sane people who felt I should'nt have even bothered responding. I'll ignore any further posts.

While I can see the need to crack down on those who abuse prim allowances, and I appreciate the fact that LL has listened to those who have legitimate complaints on this issue, the means in which LL has chosen to go about correcting the situation is well, overkill. LL can’t think of a less dramatic draconian means to go about correcting the situation? A HUGE price increase seems more than unwarranted. -$75 to $125? During this economic down-turn? You guys have to be kidding.

I have to agree with those many who have said it is unfair to punish the many who do not abuse their privileges for the sake of the few who do.

I can foresee the very real possibility that this ill timed and ill advised price increase could do some real economic damage to LL. Time will tell, but I can easily see the very real possibility that significant numbers of investors will be leaving their land holdings.

I've never said anything in a blog in SL before, but this is just crazy? Cant you limit the prims or objects rather than penalizing " the rest of us"? We are quietly enjoying ourselves in a down economy here, and now are faced with a rent increase that is really really hard for most people to handle. This is just mean spirited if allowed to happen. Punish those who over load over their object limits but not the population? Cmon.. why not ?

Sadness and grief,
Lexie Lukas

"Dont let it be forgot that there was once a spot with happy ever aftering....."

as the protest sim is full now, you could go to the neighbouring sim:

http://slurl.com/secondlife/Terraform%20Me/144/29/20

I personally think raising prices is a truly crap idea. As far as people abusing them to make masses of money I amnd my partner are so not in that boat. With a meager 3 sims, two of which are open space. all told at the end of the month what we make on them pays for them, and allows people to have a nice area to sail or whatever they choose to do. To make those of us who are not in them for massive profits suffer is serious crap. there is my two cents.

why are you shocked it is in a second life?

Bait and Switch: A dishonest sales practice in which a business advertises a bargain price for an item in order to draw customers into the store and then tells the prospective buyer that the advertised item is of poor quality or no longer available and attempts to sell them something else that is higher priced.

='s bad business for me, so we all need to rally up and become non payers in SL and really put a drag on the system, casue as we all know non-payers do not casue lag or issues *rolls eyes*

LL--enforce a rule to play your game you pay the game, end of story. Would eliminate half or even more of the problems in SL.

I can't but reiterate

A move like this by a corporation may indicate financial difficulty. IF not now , soon, if enough tier is lost to revenues as users drop out.

"DO NOT HOLD LARGE CASH BALANCES IN YOUR LL ACOUNT - IT MAY BE AT RISK"

It is time to start using Paypal or credit card arrangements. Think like an investor

Farley Crabgrass is absolutely correct. Protect your finances now!

TIGGS Beaumont