Openspace Announcement Discussion with Jack Linden

I didn't know there were any left!! :\


Absolutely.

I tend to assume that anybody who has land in SL is probably better off than that, though.

Oh please... I don't even own an open sim and don't show your own lack of education by attempting to insult mine, grow up...

Wrong and Wrong maybe you need to go study up on some recent court cases havin to do with terms of service and online gaming my friend which is what SL Is.ANYONE can write anything in a tos einstein and ppl can click accept on it all day long that sure doesn't mean it is valid of cannot be challenged LL already had one ruling on there ToS not being able to hold up in a court of law and from what I recall LL quietly settled out of court afterward or in all your wisdom oh great furrry bear did you forget that?

I opose the raise in rates for a few that has ruined it for many...If you wish to do something.... then track down those that has made it come to this then to make everyone suffer. Many people that depends on the Open spaces don't use it for what you claim they do. so why make them suffer. when the US and LL econimy is in such poor condtion at the moment and your answer. is o... these few people are doing this. and that larger group. is using it for what it's meant to be for........If a group that does own a open space sim. and is using it for purposes other then what it's meant to be used for... then hit them. and say... you need to upgrade to a bigger island. or we will have to take the island down.

I myself live and own a piece of the main land... and i know if LL was to raise the tier fee... then even i would be forced to shut down my shop and home.

Sounds like the airlines, but people still do business with them, instead of using Amtrak, which gives more service for less money.

I do not own an OS. I could not afford one at the old rates, and certainly could never afford it now. However, I feel the decision for such a drastic increase in the cost for an OS is an emotional decision on LL's part, rather than a fair one. I think it is painfully obvious why residents lined up to purchase OS sims. If you have ever owned mainland, it it is even more painfully obvious. For most residents it was a reasonably priced option of owning your own land and having complete control of things like privacy, creativity, and the general feel. On the mainland, we are forced to build up in the air, and to set our draw distance at 65m to fool ourselves into believing we have some kind of privacy.

I think LL needs to reconsider their decision. If they are concerned about profit, they could look at this as a great opportunity to gain insight into what the residents really want, what they can afford, and what they would be willing to pay for. Think about the reasons why Open Sims were so popular, and offer up some affordable alternatives. Set a standard rate that seems fair across the board and then ensure that people get what they are paying for. For instance, charge 1/4 the cost of a regular sim and with that you get 1/4 the prim allowance, 1/4 the avatars allowed, and 1/4 the script allowance. What is lacking right now is a clear standard of what is allowed, and obviously enforcement of that standard. If I'm not mistaken, LL is the only one who can police such things anyway. Simply increasing the cost of Open Sims will not prevent people from abusing their intended purpose knowingly or even unknowingly.

wow dood, have you EVER priced amtrak... its more expensive then an airlines and takes 10 times longer to get anyplace.

stop being a troll.

I'd love my own Sim, but LL's chaotic approach to Sim pricing since late 2006 has deterred me.

No-one can plan business use when set-up fees and repeat fees yo-yo.

The lack of grandfathering is the final nail in the coffin. I will not invest in any sort of Sim as it leaves me totally exposed to LL's capricious whims.

LL's pricing 'policy' is utterly insane. It will kill SL. Even if they reduce Sim prices in the future, I will not be able to trust LL not to increase them again by huge % at short notice.

Hiking OpenSim prices will not solve problems arising from prim usage; LL's justification is spurious.

Marketing Students: Add LL to the Ford Edsel and New Coke on your list of case studies of corporate screw-ups.

Thousands of comments from the community and just one from Jack or any other linden, I am very disappointed.

I guess it comes down to Jack admitting that it was more about the price being set wrong and them making that change. He's right about one thing though, he helped with the decision made, maybe even brought it up, but I am certain every decision made at LL was signed by M, so for those asking if M knew about this, well it's silly to ask. He is the CEO after all; he'd have to know about a decision that can potentially ruin Second Life.

I still think it's unfair, uncalled for, and I don't see how this was ever about performance. Charging people more will not help make this place more stable. That's just you feeding your hungry pocket and the community of Second Life must really do something about this.

Sure it's just a 50 dollar increase, but we're going through very rough times, why kick the community when they're down? We are humans behind the screens who still have faith in this place, some people have disabilities and to them, this is their escape from their every day nightmare, not my case, but am involved with the ACS here in Second Life and I can assure you, this will hurt everyone.

Please create a 3rd type of sim, allow those who use their Openspace sims wisely to continue to pay our 75U$ tier, and create one that has more prims, maybe even allows more load and charge the 125U$ you want to start charging.

Stop abusing your powers and kicking those who support your households, yes, my premium membership and all the lindens I spend on SL, pay your salary.

The real world news is full of the words "Credit Crunch", "Recession", "Redundancy", "Unemployment" Ect.
Do Linden Labs think that the inworld economy is somehow immune?
The world is tightening its belt, and looking to cut costs.. People will be looking to REDUCE in world expenditure. This price hike is untenable

This decision comes from the "bury your head in the sand" school of thought
Hmm, i smell burning.. pass me a fiddle someone...

I agree if there are people abusing the OS plans, you should do something about that, but to punish everyone for others bad habits is WRONG and TOTALY UNJUST. I am not supprised at all that LL is doing this, as you have managed the cheat people out of their money at every turn. I moved to an OS to get away from your unfair over billing and unjust ways of doing business on mainland fees, so now you come after the OS people too. Well, I am about to give up on SL as a whole, and I know many people, who feel the same way. I had invested lots of money in SL, but am just getting sick of it all.

The worst part of this, it the fact that you are cheating people who have invested lots of money into these OS SIMs. Wow, good luck, I think LL is shotting them selves in the foot, just as you have driven down land values allready, SL wide.

Linden labs encouraged the ownership of void sims, I am not sure how anyone can abuse the sim, 3750 prims, 1/4 of an estate. So 4 open sims equalls the prims of and estate. My guess is your trying to run 4 open sims on one server, class four, old left over servers. I remeber a year ago linden said class four is as good as class five. So this may not be the case after all. So now they are going to rape thier users for thier bad judgement.

Linden fix the mainland, the lag sucks big time, I rarely go there for that reason. I have a void sim with my 3750 prims and mostly water at that. I use 2/3 of the available prims.
If there are abusers, deal with them one on one. If a sim suports 3750 prims, then how can anyone abuse that, thats all there is.

I think a lot of people will leave if you persue this Jack Linden. I have been here for two years, have seen the struggle from 30k users, 40k users, 50k and so on, I think you have reached a new threshold at 70K. Find a way to deal with it without abusing your members.

We are a no-profit group using our sim for roleplay and with this increase will no longer be able to afford any land. We used to have a full prim plot with approximately the same number of prims but we needed the space more than the prims. We are careful to keep our prims and scripts low so as not to impact the players on our sim and have had a great deal of success for 8mths. Our landlord is telling us we will have a 65% increase which is outrageous. Furthermore, as Canadians, our economy just took a major nosedive!! So now instead of paying $124/mth we are looking at about $205 a month. This is not a justified increase for a group that just wants a place to hang out and have some fun and is NOT abusing the priviledge. I think that LL should be going after those that are making it a problem for all instead of punishing those who are responsible in their usage of an open sim.

Frankly the only people who seem to be happy about this are those who rent out full prim sims and are not able to rent all of their property because there are cheaper alternatives. I think those who anticipate an increase in rentals might be in for a surprise when they find open space sim owners abandoning all land and probably SL too.

The economy just doesn't support the option for the average user to invest in afull prim sim every month and this is the reason open sim was a blessing.

Sorry LL but you are making a mistake and punishing those who play responsibly. When the rest of the economy is being forced to lower prices, it doesn't make sense to slap such a major increase on something that frankly is a luxury. We all need to cut costs right now as is and you just made it an easy decision for many to cut SL from their budgets.

Please reconsider the impact this will have.

Jack "Nero" Linden...LOL

The payor can change. What isn't allowed, according to Jack's original statement, is a different owner and payor. The owner and payor have to be the same.

Let's see, I own a bank, and I want to make money on real estate mortgages. I can't legally approve a $500,000 loan for a McMansion for a guy who makes $50K a year, but wait... there's a type of mortgage instrument, designed for self-employed or professional and contract workers, who do not receive a regular paycheck! It's called a "stated income" approval, and I can start giving these out to people who obviously cannot afford the home they're buying! I can even find swindling appraisers and crooked title companies and loan orginators who will help push all this bad paper through the mill! Then, I can quickly package these lousy, questionable, and criminally bad loans into something called, "mortgage-backed securities", and sell them off to other institutions, esp. those who represent the investment dollars of thousands and thousands of middle-class "working stiffs" attempting to secure retirement with safe, secure, mortgage-backed, low-risk investments!
Genius! I get filthy stinking rich, and when the sh*t finally hits the proverbial oscillator, I'm safely devoid of any of the questionable securities! Only the fools who invest in those stocks, in a vain attempt to procure a little dignity for their old age, will suffer! Woo-hoo!

Linden version: Let's see, I can't support full-prim sim servers for all the folks who want to be "moguls" in Second Life, but wait! I can run slimmed-down, laggy, crippled little "islands" on multiple virtual server sessions, turning a single hardware investment into multiple mid-range virtual land accommodations, sell them at huge profits to folks who really cannot afford to be "estate owners", and make a bundle! One box will run several of these cripple-sims, and get full boat profits for each and every one.

Now, the global economy is in a meltdown, and things are getting tight, and the holidays are coming, but logins are up because folks can't afford the luxury of real-world vacations and diversions... now's the time! Jack those fees up 66%, gouge the holy living crap outta my customers, rake in the dough, then, when things get ugly, shut the whole mess down, buy two more "summer homes" and another corporate jet, disappear into the virtual ether with all this cash, and screw the folks who built this virtual world... the dumb lemmings! Woo-hoo!

Thus ends Business Ethics 101 for American Corporate "players"...

Oh, and psst... have you heard... there's oil in Africa, but the Chinese are getting it! We'll get right on that!

Im sending a ticket right now. We are under a global crisis they should reduce the feas yo help. We got a econom,y retration. I have sims empty right now and is impossible to me to ask for mu costumers pay near 100% more. Will have a massive evasion.

I desapoited becouse we cant work seriosly with linden lab. Is impossible to trun a busines or ivestiment here. On the preveious reduction of the sims prices I already lost tousands dolars. I give up this time.

Im sending a ticket right now. We are under a global crisis they should reduce the feas yo help. We got a econom,y retration. I have sims empty right now and is impossible to me to ask for mu costumers pay near 100% more. Will have a massive evasion.

I desapoited becouse we cant work seriosly with linden lab. Is impossible to trun a busines or ivestiment here. On the preveious reduction of the sims prices I already lost tousands dolars. I give up this time.

There is a protesting going on at

http://slurl.com/secondlife/Linden%20Estate%20Services/145/143/37

In one sense this is true. In another, SecondLife would probably be just classified as a game and so there's other competition.

I don't think that there's really competition, though.

Firelight

I beleive it is actually 16 OSRs per server, 4 per core on a quad core cpu? I thought anyway. may be mistaken about that.

**Edit** Yeah it is 16 per server and those 16 OSRs all share the same memory resources.

Oh yeah ..and please stop the blurb about "abusing" please.
I've ot been paying 75 bucks a month for presenting a water museum with 20 prims when I have 3750 allowance.
I "use" it within the limits it was given.
If these lmits were set wrong it's the fault of who set them.
A clear definition was not given.
Wishy washy was given. As with the mainland advertising policy. As with what is PG and what is Mature and what is mature content. As with what gambling is. As what the word buy means.

I wander if there still any logical reason for me to stay in the land business.

1. I have to pay more tier then others because I live in europe
2. Lowering in sim pushuse cost made it that there where people buying sims who could not even know how to manage them , hurting others by renting/leasing out under break even prices
3. 67% raise on tier on open sims + VAT for me for having an open sims in wich i have ONE RENTER IN.

Explain to me how my one renter who does not have anything more then a castle can give more rendering then , moving boats and moving survers or what ever it was ment for in the first place?

Also explain to me how i can take any company serieusly that just change rates by the snap of a finger , not just a small change but 67%

This tier raise will lead to this .

1. your customers have no longer faith in you as a company and will leave
2. open sims will no longer be used as they are to exspensive
3. you lose money in tiers you got now on the open sims
4. you lose money on tiers on full sims because people lost faith in you as a company
5. you lose money because of a huge fload of residents from secondlife toward other grids like open sim
6. a decrease in sim purhuses since people have lost trust in you as company

Being an economist myself i cant believe this is what you really want , you not only lose money on tiers (see all the previous post about people leaving) but also this is not really good for your pr.

Given the reason for doing it is legit, nobody wants laggy sims, but the means are wrong . There are other ways to achieve the same.

Also it would have been good service if you offer people some alternatives, like purhase price back of a free upgrade to full sims. But you offer nothing you simply want us to pay more after you allready took our 250 usd.

When I log in the secondlife website its says , secondlife is a virtual world created by its residents. That sounds nice , but its the same residents that you ignore and also dare I say it stab in the back by this.

I need not say more only this : there is no smiley that can show how i feel about this grrmmppfff

Yeah Riiiiight! Unregulated investment banks like Bear Sterns, AIG, Freddy Mac or Fanny Mae found a balance of their own on three feet with the government stepping in when they lost two more. Nice self balance! I am afraid your comment is obsolete since last year.

I have been reading through the new pages (since pg 92) and over and over I see you (**) waving the LL banner and making snide comments. This last is the most ridiculous yet.

Why?

Because Amtrak is subsidised to the tune of over 900M USD per year which amounts to 64% of their income. Amtrak hauled 28M passengers in 2007 vs 640M U.S. Only passengers for the airlines. And you should get great service from Amtrak, they pay their snack bar car attendents approx 50K USD vs < 20K USD for a flight attendent.

Maybe you better get your info straight before you put your fingers to the keys **. You come off like a Linden alt.

DRD