Upcoming Changes for Adult Content: Definitions

Good point. I hope that my rather lengthy post did't get too far buries, as it would be kinda nice to see an answer. Thread's movin' kinda fast, though.

Mari
(who has neither a MLP bed not a basement dungeon to her name)

Of course I haven't read this thread but anyway here is my suggestion for a way for us to get a grip on the definition of adult content.

An LL employee could go around the mainland and report back here the simname and location of every adult establishment he finds that fit your definition. That, along with the reason for inclusion would be extremely helpful for us to understand exactly what counts and what doesn't. Then we can debate whether this or that place should be included and adjust the definition to fit these edge cases. I appreciate of course that you can't find every adult establishment. But at least we can get an idea.

Perhaps you could even accept requests for places to be assessed. That way we can ask you if our stores and homes are considered adult or not. Even better it will give us a great heads up and advance warning on which establishments are going to be evicted or forced out of business.

I'll post what i posted when this Age verification was first announced over a year ago, I wrote it on the blog and it was quickly deleted by as Linden. NO CLUB OWENER IN THIER RIGHT MIND WILL FLAG THEIR CLUB/SIM AS ADULT. If you have to have a verified account to be able to access adult flagged parcels then No club owner or store owner will do that, It would effectivly kill off thier traffic/business. Forcing a mass divide like this in SL will kill it. I'm glkad my main and alt SL accounts have been canceled, it's obvious which way SL is heading, Eliminate all adult themed content so it's "Business" friendly.
How many No payment info accounts are there? How many of them go to clubs which may include adult content?
Seriously, this move by LL is retarded.
Forcing people to relocate, Forcing people to verify to access parts of SL. Isn't SL supposed to be for over 18's anyway? Oh i forgot, merging with the teen grid. You've killed SL.
So long and thanks for all the fish.

I live in a civilised but open RL, where high streets have Adult products, churches, libraries, night clubs, pubs side by side. I'm happy with that, diversity is a good thing. But I don't see people having sex in the park or in shops. If I saw sex where I was shopping sure as hell I'd go somewhere else or even complain. If I saw it in the park I might stare a while, then leave them to it. In a shop I don't expect nudity. On the beach if I saw a naked girl I'd probably look, but not be offended. If someone had sex beside me, I'd be offended. The basis of what is acceptable is dependent on environment to an extent. Maybe LL could apply a 'Beach' test, i.e. would you be offended if you saw that here?

I enjoy dances at dance places in SL, if I'm in a good mood, there's good music and there's good repartee, I have been known to go topless. That is not intended to invite or cause sexual activity but simply to raise the mood and express the joy of the moment. And it works, others may join in or at least make really good and funny comments. It's FUN. And it's harmless. I do not do this in stores or malls, meeting places, forests, gardens.. I do NOT consider that to be ADULT!

So, I guess the point of all this is to suggest the 'Beach Test', would you be offended if you saw THAT, THERE?

Just a thought.

/me pictures sim owners running around taking down the nudie pics, pouring the bathtub gin down the drain, shouting, "It's a raid! It's a raid!"

We've been told that only 2-3% of the grid would qualify as "Adult" by the intended definition. So that's a pretty good definition in itself:

"Adult content" is that material which no more than 3% of SL residents could imagine pretending to do with their pixels, ever, even in the heat of passion.

If the definition includes more material than this, then the Separation topic is a sham: everybody will need to move to the Adult continent on the off-chance they someday might have impure toonsex on their parcels.

That's funny. I was thinking of all the businesses clamoring to be on that list of examples for all the free advertising and interest to see just how "naughty" is naughty.

(to Qie) Lol. And I wonder how the percentage was arrived at anyway?

And does this factor in the amount of people who spend money into the SL economy due to the adult sims or malls. Money that enables of course, those who receive it to hire models, pay for their sim tier, etc., etc.

Maybe everyone will sell only on XLstreet or whatever, avoiding tier altogether. Not to mention segregation. Maybe this is even what LL wants (they own XL too, so they don't lose and the grid becomes more savory to a whistle-clean corporation like...oh no need to name one. But some who object to 'immoral content'?)

I'm guessing only. Since there is as yet no plausible (to me) explanation for this big new insistence.

ETA: Felix that could happen also. Lol.

I know this wasn't to me, but in the spirit of discussion. About as well as AR reports are handled now?

Seriously. How do you expect to keep on top of this? Short of banning all adult content altogether, at least officially/in shops, malls and roleplay sims. Which seems the logical endpoint for this new rule change.

I'm still puzzled by this 'search' rule since one can already search for either PG or mature. And people circumvent it already too apparently, and it isn't kept on top of.

Overall though it seems like taking away everyone's current SL for the benefit of a few (if anyone's been making loud protestations up til now about 'adult content', I have missed it completely in the forums) isn't logical.

I was surprised to see horror listed without qualification as being non-PG. What would the trick-or-treaters say?

I love this suggestion, and would love to see specific examples of what poeple do not like since though i have things I dislike, there is NOT ONE SINGLE THING that is objectionable to me, just bad taste to my view. I should say in regards to horror what is horror has chnged vastly from when i wa a kid, then it was dracula and frankenstein and suggestive horror that i saw as kid. At the same time what is horror to one person maybe life to another. We define horror differently each and everyone of us. What one person may find objectionable another wouldn't even blink at or give it any thought at all. Much of what is objectionable to one person or group is defined by their environment or lifestyle or life philosophy or religions. Several have pointed ut how adult content of place may be close ot schools, it is no different for me in another major city where the proximatey of adult places is because the shool sits on incorporated land of a city and the adult place is unincorparated county land and voters have voted that it stays that way because taxes are less then if it was in city. I could also note that the school i moving, the adult conent is staying.

Since LL are keeping the teen grid anyway - why not just improve the teen grid, which is already in existence, and put in more fun activities, shops, whatever it is that is lacking? Why shake up the main grid at all.



Business/residential zoning within a sim is needed and I can't see why that hasn't been implemented; simply say this sim is for businesses this (other) sim is for residences. But, grandfather in existing sims, do not shake up the grid. JMO If cities can zone why doesn't SL? But within a sim only. And mainly to avoid giant neon flashing signs of a club next to some unfortunate person's small house parcel. Not to censor people. More to do with how land is sold later.

I have been reading most of the thread and there is something I don't get. I am not english speaking person, so maybe some concepts like G, PG ... I don't understand them.
Maybe I speak in behalf of some other non american or british people.

As far as I know there has been PG & Mature. I knew what that meant.

I understand PG is going to be something like a shrine. I think we all get that.
I also understand what an adult site will be: escorts, extreme gorean, combat zones.

In the middle there are a lot of merchants like skin makers, lingerie designers and mixed products, furniture bulders, prefabs builders etc. So are you saying that will exist Mature Regions flagged somehow with or without extreme adult content material ? How do you plan to work and make that possible ?

These are 'movie ratings'. G is 'general audience'. It means anyone can see it - a small child, or anyone. It contains things like fluffy bunnies, and flowers. A Disney cartoon for instance.

PG is 'parental guidance' - a teenager might be okay seeing it but their parents should decide for sure. It might contain someone punching someone in a fight, it might contain mild swear words. But nothing too 'serious' or traumatising.

R is 'restricted', anyone under seventeen can only see this movie with a parent/adult present. And it's advised they do not see it. Things like more violence, possibly some nudity, or very scary horror films. In other words, most films.

X of course, would be things like porn.

It basically sounds as if the bulk of SL is moving to G or PG content, and the R and X things might or will be segregated into small areas of their own.

Looking at the guidelines it appears that skin and shape sellers might be considered adult content unless you clothe the pics completely --- that pretty much leaves a customer wondering what they are buying. I think censorship in an adult community is subjective at best. If I see something I dont like I can simply move on, such an easy thing to do.

Maybe if we were owned by an Australian company vs a US based firm things would be different...Austrialia was lucky, they got the convicts not the puritans

If the main reason to buy a skin is another part than the face, I guess we are indeed talking about an adult business here Seriously. I saw skins being sold even in PG areas. They put bikinis. That is enough to give you a general idea about skintone, makeup, quality and so on. If you want to see more details, get some demos (who buys skins without demos anyway?)

This is a very slippery problem.

Think the best way would be to stricter enforce the mature tag.
Everything thats not PG (however that is defined) is mature.

This paired with a Paypal or Credit Card verification.

About shuffing adult store off to their own "ghetto".

In RL every little sexshop has his own webpage freely accessible to everyone, who is abel to click on a yes I am 18 button (if it even has that).

There is no other verification or security, and it seems noone complains.

And the pics in there are often not censored or anything, with very colorfull descriptons for what the product can be used for.

This all adult stuff here is being holier then the pope.

My opinion enforce the current system in place and then see what happens.
PG and mature is enough for the majority of us.

I dont want to give any definition to other people what I consider adult or not, thats for everyone to decide. As long as its legal its his own problem.

Its again the typical morality view, killing and maiming is fine but a naked breast is totally offensive and has to be punished.

Interesting what in your new world is a female avatar considered which doesnt wear panties under her skirt?
I know quite a lot of women in RL who go commando in public and are allowed in every place.

Just to clarify for those that did not read early in the thread.

Nudity is not Adult.

This also covers things like skin shops with pictures of there skins nude. Not adult, you do not have to move.

My opinion about this:

1) Create a simple but powerfull age classification. Rely on 3 levels for parcels, groups, events, classifieds (sim classification explained bellow, profile may also need classification)
* PG: no sex and no violence (happy toy world, everybody's smiling, etc.)
* Mature: not focus on sex and violence but can sometimes happen (RL is mature content)
* Adult: based on/focus on sex and violence
Note: content (like skin or sex bed) are NOT classified cause it the usage that can be offensive.

2) Allow sims owner to restrict the max level of parcel, classified and event on the sim.
* PG sim: can only have PG parcels, classified and events
* Mature sims: can only have PG and mature stuff
* Adult sims: no restrictions

3) Set the existing mainland as mature and create a new "adult mainland" continent. Let private sims owner setup as they want.

4) Have a max level limitation account configuration. The max level can eventualy be password protected (this allow parents to protect their child).
* PG account: can only goes on PG parcel and see PG events
* Mature account: can go to PG and Mature parcels...
* Adult account: REQUIRES VALIDATION and can go anywhere

5) Create a task force to check people respect classification

At the end:
* I can protect my child account with a password so he can only see PG related second-life
* Teens and non validated account can still continu to have a rich SL social life and still be protected from very offencive content
* I can continu my sex orgies as long as everybody validate their account
* Linden lab is happy cause they have more validated account

I do like Elanthius' idea of providing examples for existing places, although a gradual approach based on a hypothetical scenario might make it a lot easier to understand exactly where the line is drawn.

Examples:

1) mall
a] mall selling only "non-adult" items (clothes, shoes, skins, etc...)
b] same as a but a handful of stalls sell BDSM-tinted but non sexual items (collars, cuffs, etc...)
c] same as b but a handful of stalls sell sexual tinted items as *part* of their inventory (poseball vendor which has sitting poses, cuddle poses and sexual poses)
d] same as c but a handful of stalls only sell sexual tinted items but the overall is still mature
e] mall selling predominantly sexual content

2) BDSM hang-out
a] people stand/sit around and chat, everyone is attired the way they would be in the rest of SL
b] same as a but there might be "above average" nudity although noone engages in sexual activities
c] same as b and say things happen like a submissive might be chained to a wall nude, but no actual sex takes place
d] same as d but people also engage in sexual activities in out-of-the-way "semi-private" places
e] free-for-all-anything-goes

3) Dance club
a] people might dress sexy but all in all it's a regular club
b] same as a but club dancers dance on "stripper poles", but remain fully clothed
c] same as b but dancers may be topless
d] same as c but dancers may be fully nude
e] same as d but dancers may engage in "live sex shows"

Etc, etc..

While hypothetical, knowing where the line is drawn in the above (and other common) examples would help a lot in at least getting some idea without *exact* guidelines (which seems impossible anyway).

There's an immense difference between "only e qualifies as adult in all three examples" and "we would consider b as adult already" for instance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blondin Linden
"This is tricky, but from my understanding, no. Nudists/Naturalist will not be deemed as Adult. This is under the assumption that the main point of the gathering is not sexual."

******

Are you defining sexual as overt acts of intercourse, using poseballs, or touching ... if people stand perfectly still on the nudist beach, 2m away from each other, and engage in flirtatious or sexually-charged chat, is it now Adult? How will you police that?

Would a strip club that employs nude dancers who do NOT engage in-club intercourse activities and merely dance around naked and flirt with the guests, be considered sexual? Again, how will it be policed?

@Kitty: A static classification is not a solution, Linden Lab should offer a simple and flexible system then residents will classified their content by themself.

Forcing people in some category will leads to a massive protestation, having them choose freely will result in a few abuse.

It sounds like the beach I grew up next to would have to be considered an "adult" area in SL, because it had topless bathers who occasionally engaged in flirtatious behavior.

I can agree that there are 3 levels, G, Mature, and Adult, and am OK with the concept.
(PG is really a bad classification.) I believe that a proper technical solution would be FAR better than the proposed solution.

First off, there should be a way of defining a profile as "adult". Contents of the profile other than the name / rezdate would all be hidden unless you have a "view Adult content flag" (similar to View Mature content) turned on. That solves 99% of the complaints about profiles, and still allows those who wish to have more explicit info in there to do so.

Second. Adult parcels. Anyone in doubt of their content would label their content adult and be done with it. Like search flags, View Adult Content could be used - and if UNCHECKED, All the avatars and prims on that parcel would NOT BE RENDERED (or sounds heard) by anyone without the View Adult Content flag set. You would also not be able to enter an adult parcel without that flag set. So there you go. If you are offended, it all just goes away and you see a nice empty lot. Problem solved. No need to move.

I am NOT a fan of the broken "adult verification" system, which has been proven to fail to properly verify REAL adults and still allows minors in, but if payment on file is a valid alternative, I'll deal with it. Not happy about it at all though.

I'm happy with those classifications. However, I think that the definition proposed for Adult is equivalent to LL's current definition of Mature, and likewise the new definition for Mature is equivalent to LL's current definition of PG.

We clearly have three classes of landowners:

A) those who wanted to host/sell explicit content
B) those who wanted to host social and dance clubs, bars, stores and malls, galleries, music venues, beaches, parks
C) those who wanted a more "controlled" Second Life experience, free from broad interaction with other Residents and separate from the range of activity that occurs in Mature and Adult regions

To date class (A) would have purchased Mature land, whilst class (B) would have purchased PG land, and class (C) has not previously been properly catered for on the mainland but would probably opt for PG land.

Under LL's proposal - those in class (A) will need to relocated from Mature regions to Adult regions to adhere to the TOS. Those in class (B) will need to relocate from PG regions to Mature to adhere to the TOS, and those in class (C) can stay put in PG regions.

On the other hand, another solution would be to redesignate existing Mature regions as Adult, and PG regions as Mature and create new G regions. In this solution

Those in class (A) can stay put; those in class (B) can stay put; those in class (C) can choose whether to stay put or move to a G area (depending on who their current neighbours are).

One solution enforces no mandatory changes on anyone - whilst the other changes the terms and conditions to which previously purchase land can be put to use on two groups of landowners in SL forcing them to relocate, and reinforcing the view that SL is far to risky to invest time or money into due to major U-turns in policy by LL.

Matthew