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Upcoming Changes for Adult Content: Definitions

Jp Linden
Administrator
Join date: 13 Mar 2007
Posts: 13
03-12-2009 09:01
We need clear and consistent definitions of what constitutes adult content, in line with our Community Standards. Our current definitions for PG, Mature, and Adult can be found here:

https://support.secondlife.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=4417&task=knowledge&questionID=6010

How do these definitions align with your personal interpretation of these standards?

Adult Oriented FAQ:
https://support.secondlife.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=4417&task=knowledge&questionID=6032
Kalderi Tomsen
Nomad Extraordinaire!
Join date: 10 May 2007
Posts: 888
03-12-2009 10:32
OK, the one major issue I see is that in your definition, "adult" includes:
From: someone
Representations of ... genitalia, whether or not photo-realistic
This could be interpreted to mean that any store selling skins and showing a picture of the skin should be classified as "Adult". Will all skin shops that make skins for adults that do now have "modesty underwear" built-in have to move to the new "Adult Continent"?

Where do you draw the lines as to the definition of:
From: someone
Sexually themed spaces
To some cultures showing of an ankle or *gasp* a knee is considered sexual - as SL becomes more and more multi-cultured, I believe that it's going to be vital to have that definition a lot more explicit in terms of what it includes and excludes...

I think that clarification on both of these points will avoid lots of difficult decisions later on.
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Hosoi Ichiba - High Quality Classically-styled Asian buildings, furniture and home decorations in an old-fashioned Japanese market garden on Japan Kanto. http://hosoi-ichiba.blogspot.com/

Hosoi Design - High Quality prefabs and furnishings, plus commercial buildings.
Melodie Darwin
SL Answerless
Join date: 8 Feb 2008
Posts: 180
Befuddled
03-12-2009 10:33
I cannot begin to find where there is a way to align either of these definitions with my personal standards. It particularly sounds like a nightmare to enforce for just about anywhere on the Mainland.

I have areas in a number of regions which are public parks. One region in particular I own the majority of the land. One of the neighboring sims is PG. I have a variety of content within this area that includes cuddle, kiss and dance poseballs. There are also more adult beds. None of these are in view of the PG region, and most you would have to look for to even find.

The initial obvious places are sex clubs and such. But my areas would join a growing list of grey areas for enforcement. How would you handle an area that is primarily a nature park with adult type content? When added with grey areas like ads and landcutting, the G-Team will soon outnumber residents. This will not end well.

(And will those who do not wish to see adult content see banlines everywhere?)
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Kalderi Tomsen
Nomad Extraordinaire!
Join date: 10 May 2007
Posts: 888
03-12-2009 10:36
ok I thought of another one...

From: someone
Any publicly accessible Region must be designated "Adult" if it [...] displays the following:
* Representations of explicit sexual conduct


So what you are saying is that if I own a house on the mainland, have a sex bed in it for the enjoyment of me and my (utterly hypothetical) partner, unless I put up ban lines around the house, I would have to move to the "Adult Continent"?
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Kalderi, General Manager, Hosoi Ichiba and Hosoi Design

- - -
Hosoi Ichiba - High Quality Classically-styled Asian buildings, furniture and home decorations in an old-fashioned Japanese market garden on Japan Kanto. http://hosoi-ichiba.blogspot.com/

Hosoi Design - High Quality prefabs and furnishings, plus commercial buildings.
Blondin Linden
Linden Lab Employee
Join date: 2 Jun 2008
Posts: 381
03-12-2009 10:38
The idea is that overtly sexual or violent themed areas would be classified as Adult. Sex beds in a private home, skins, and the such are all fine and would not have to move. Its when the theme or main advertising point is sexual that it would cross a line between mature and adult.
Melodie Darwin
SL Answerless
Join date: 8 Feb 2008
Posts: 180
03-12-2009 10:42
From: Blondin Linden
The idea is that overtly sexual or violent themed areas would be classified as Adult. Sex beds in a private home, skins, and the such are all fine and would not have to move. Its when the theme or main advertising point is sexual that it would cross a line between mature and adult.



The area I used as an example includes sex beds which are NOT in a private home. They are available for public use, but are neither the main focus nor the theme. What then?
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Kalderi Tomsen
Nomad Extraordinaire!
Join date: 10 May 2007
Posts: 888
03-12-2009 10:43
Blondin - great answer! I think that should be built in to the definition document you linked to, so that is clear. It will head off a bunch of debate.
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Kalderi, General Manager, Hosoi Ichiba and Hosoi Design

- - -
Hosoi Ichiba - High Quality Classically-styled Asian buildings, furniture and home decorations in an old-fashioned Japanese market garden on Japan Kanto. http://hosoi-ichiba.blogspot.com/

Hosoi Design - High Quality prefabs and furnishings, plus commercial buildings.
BillyJo Barbosa
Registered User
Join date: 11 Jul 2007
Posts: 2
Hmmmm!
03-12-2009 10:55
What about the obvious X-Rated Profiles?
Blunt Fhang
Registered User
Join date: 1 Jul 2008
Posts: 55
Adult content
03-12-2009 10:57
If by adult content you mean sex, then have sex areas and ban it elsewhere. What people do behind their own doors is their business, what they do in public can be controlled.
Just as there are areas for combat, make areas for sex and it's contents.
Bau Ur
Registered User
Join date: 6 Nov 2006
Posts: 5
PG label is not apt and definition is problematic
03-12-2009 11:02
Well, I welcome this general idea, but I think the sets of things that are disallowed in each category need reorganizing. And, no, the definitions given for the different ratings do not match my understanding of the terms.

Regarding the PG label:

"A Region may be designated PG so long as it does not advertise or make available any content that is suggestive of any (even mildly) sexual or violent themes, or reference to social drug or alcohol usage."

Well, this is odd. Suppose someone wants to have a church with sermons that denounce drunkenness and warn against the "dangers" of marijuana?

Or a mosque where people discuss the parts of Koran and Tradition that describe, and forbid, wars of aggression, and require humane treatment of prisoners of war?

Or a park where the "Ten Commandments" are posted, including "Thou shalt not commit adultery."

Suppose someone in a PG area wants to have a charitable fundraiser to provide relief to victims of violence in Darfur. At the fundraiser, no one can state exactly what is being done to these people?

Simply by making reference to those subjects, the projects would automatically be inappropriate for a PG area, by this definition.

The "PG" term stands for "Parental Guidance", a term that comes from a movie rating system in the United States. It is supposed to indicate that the movie is something which children might be allowed to view, but suggests that their parents ought to see or get information about the movie first, and discuss the material of the movie with their child.

There was also a "G" rating, which has disappeared almost completely, which meant "general" audience: children could attend without their parents needing to check it out in advance, and the kid would not come home and ask "Daddy, what is a prostitute?".

These ratings have rather weak meaning even in the USA now, and none at all outside the USA.

The description for what PG would mean in SL sounds a lot more like "G". Well so, call it General. Or something else, but not PG. "Parental Guidance" is pretty ridiculous in a world where everyone is presumed to be an adult. "General" at least makes some semantic sense -- the intention is that a broad range of visitors can go there with low risk of being offended.

But that too is unsatisfactory, since what you mean is that content is *not* the general range of behavior and material represented in virtual culture. Rather, you want to provide a protected area where the general range of content is *not* represented. Okay, so call it "Protected", or something else that is truthful and accurate.

Or just make up a completely new term so that you can define it any way you want and no one will be misguided by pre existing or conventional concepts of your labels.
Ran Garrigus
Registered User
Join date: 10 Jun 2008
Posts: 17
03-12-2009 11:10
I think the main areas where my views on what constitutes Adult/Mature differ from the present guidelines has to do with nudity and genitalia. You'll find parts of the world where nudity is not as much of a taboo as it is in North America.

I fear that this does not matter, as LL is primarily based in North America and is unlikely to budge. But if "photorealistic nudity" were categorized as being no different as the sorts of works of art people of all ages can see in museums around the world -- artistic renderings of the naked body -- then I think this would be a good step forward.
VooDoo Bamboo
www.voodoodesignsllc.com
Join date: 4 Oct 2006
Posts: 911
03-12-2009 11:12
From: Bau Ur
"Parental Guidance" is pretty ridiculous in a world where everyone is presumed to be an adult.


I think this is where the idea of connecting the teen world with the adult comes into play.
However you are right... PG was here as a label before that idea.
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Jeska Linden
Administrator
Join date: 26 Jul 2004
Posts: 2,388
03-12-2009 11:15
From: BillyJo Barbosa
What about the obvious X-Rated Profiles?

BillyJo - Profiles should already adhere to PG per our Commuity Standards http://secondlife.com/corporate/cs.php -- specifically the "Global Standards" and "Indecency" portions (copied below):

Global Standards, Local Ratings
All areas of Second Life, including the www.secondlife.com website and the Second Life Forums, adhere to the same Community Standards. Locations within Second Life are noted as Safe or Unsafe and rated Mature (M) or non-Mature (PG), and behavior must conform to the local ratings. Any unrated area of Second Life or the Second Life website should be considered non-Mature (PG).

Indecency
Second Life is an adult community, but Mature material is not necessarily appropriate in all areas (see Global Standards below). Content, communication, or behavior which involves intense language or expletives, nudity or sexual content, the depiction of sex or violence, or anything else broadly offensive must be contained within private land in areas rated Mature (M). Names of Residents, objects, places and groups are broadly viewable in Second Life directories and on the Second Life website, and must adhere to PG guidelines.
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Ciaran Laval
Mostly Harmless
Join date: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 7,951
03-12-2009 11:16
"Second Life’s "Mature" Designation is intended to accommodate most of the non-Adult activities that commonly go on in Second Life. For instance, social and dance clubs, bars, stores and malls, galleries, music venues, beaches, parks, and other spaces for socializing, creating and learning all support a Mature designation -- so long as Adult activities or content do not occur or appear on the land. Thus, Residents in these spaces should expect to see a variety of themes and content."

You've got to be kidding. What you describe is PG, clubs and bars with no real alcohol being served are not "Adult".

Am I going to have to put in my estate covenant "Anything above heavy petting is not allowed on this sim". This is unworkable and ridiculous.
VooDoo Bamboo
www.voodoodesignsllc.com
Join date: 4 Oct 2006
Posts: 911
03-12-2009 11:17
From: Ran Garrigus
I think the main areas where my views on what constitutes Adult/Mature differ from the present guidelines has to do with nudity and genitalia. You'll find parts of the world where nudity is not as much of a taboo as it is in North America.

I fear that this does not matter, as LL is primarily based in North America and is unlikely to budge. But if "photorealistic nudity" were categorized as being no different as the sorts of works of art people of all ages can see in museums around the world -- artistic renderings of the naked body -- then I think this would be a good step forward.



I am sorry but are you kidding me? You must come up with something better then this.
First don't try to pass the adult stuff in SL as art. As stated before... Most of the adult stuff in SL is what is giving SL such a bad name these days. Its nothing more then a digital peep show with glory holes which is exactly why the media has turned its back on it.
I am sure there is artistic adult material in SL however 90% is not and you know it.
As for the whole North America comment.... I could see that one coming an hour ago.
Reminds me of the SLX which is now Linden Labs of course we will see if that changes the attitude in there about Americans. Some guy walking around with a prim for a BEEP and swinging it in the air is not art by and streach.
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Omnifox Xi
Registered User
Join date: 5 Nov 2006
Posts: 3
Sex over death?
03-12-2009 11:19
I guess I put this in the wrong place, here it is in the proper thread.


Ok, we all see the "Sex" Portion of this.

What about: "Representations of intense violence depicting death, torture, dismemberment or other severe bodily harm."

Combat regions? That depicts death very much so. Can be very grusome with land mines grenades rifles. Does this become "NC-17"?

If it does, then that sets a president of anything outta puritanical norms is not ok.

If it does NOT, then that sets a line of, "Death is fun and unavoidable, while sex is a dirty thing that must be hidden"


I would like some further explanation on things other than sex.

Thank you.
Korena Starbrook
Registered User
Join date: 20 Feb 2007
Posts: 12
03-12-2009 11:22
I own a mainland sim and sell beds that contain animations - many of which are sexual in nature.

Sex is NOT permitted in the store and neither is nudity.

How will I be affected? I own the entire sim - does this mean I have to pack up and move???

:(
Nye Mu
Registered User
Join date: 17 Oct 2006
Posts: 2
03-12-2009 11:22
Why do I feel like I have been here before...:)

With the best intentions there is not going to be a 'definition' of 'Adult' that will fit even a part of what can be done in SL. So how about going for the practical alternative. SL is in the US, and is subject ONLY to US law. Any definition of 'Adult' will and can only be based on that law.
As a resident from the UK (or anywhere else for that matter), I must obey US law in order to play, but SL is not obliged to obey UK law. (I don't like this arrangement, but hey its your asset servers)

So. I am sure that Linden Lab has taken legal advice about this. so how about them telling us what it was so we can all get on adjusting our second lives to accommodate it.

Its nice to ask people what they think LL, but lets face it you haven't got much room to move here. Can you change the US law to reflect our views. I suspect not, so lets talk about what needs to change to be legal in all the places YOU might get sued from.

Honestly tho. best of luck with this.

Can I also ask how you are going to remove the adult Voice content?
TaraLi Jie
Registered User
Join date: 28 Mar 2007
Posts: 10
03-12-2009 11:24
From: Jeska Linden
BillyJo - Profiles should already adhere to PG per our Commuity Standards http://secondlife.com/corporate/cs.php -- specifically the "Global Standards" and "Indecency" portions (copied below):

Global Standards, Local Ratings
All areas of Second Life, including the www.secondlife.com website and the Second Life Forums, adhere to the same Community Standards. Locations within Second Life are noted as Safe or Unsafe and rated Mature (M) or non-Mature (PG), and behavior must conform to the local ratings. Any unrated area of Second Life or the Second Life website should be considered non-Mature (PG).

Indecency
Second Life is an adult community, but Mature material is not necessarily appropriate in all areas (see Global Standards below). Content, communication, or behavior which involves intense language or expletives, nudity or sexual content, the depiction of sex or violence, or anything else broadly offensive must be contained within private land in areas rated Mature (M). Names of Residents, objects, places and groups are broadly viewable in Second Life directories and on the Second Life website, and must adhere to PG guidelines.


Soooo... Does this mean you can't put a mature area in your list of picks? Or will those picks be filtered out when you're in a PG area? Or... Ok, I'm missing something here.
Bojax Baroque
Registered User
Join date: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 3
Hog's wallop
03-12-2009 11:30
From: Jp Linden
We need clear and consistent definitions of what constitutes adult content, in line with our Community Standards.

The idea that Linden Lab can define in six weeks something which the United States Supreme Court has been haggling over for 50 years and STILL not impinge on the rights of adults to partake of adult entertainment is amusing. Can't WAIT to see how SL is going to be further abridged by these ham handed attempts

There is much offensive adult material in SL, however censorship is a slippery slope which can only end in watering down the SL experience to the point where it becomes a kiddies playground instead of an adult community. A place where there are warnings nailed to every tree, and the disease of "political correctness" will ruin this society as it has so many others in the real world.

In real life we already have too many morons who would shove their own ideas of religion, morality or political viewpoint down the throats of the whole damned world. Such attempts have always led to suffering. Can't we just leave this nonsense out of this brave new electronic world?

6 weeks? So when are the kiddies going to be released from their teen areas to further water down the SL experience? In 7 weeks? Yeah, I know this isn't about that, but it sure feels like it. :-)

After that, will we be need to build underground bunkers on our land in which to store our genitals? Or are you merely going to cripple cameras so they cannot be moved about, lest somebody accidentally see a pixel nipple?

That's as idiotic and Mrs. Grundy visiting a monkey house then demanding the zoo keepers put pants on the monkeys!
Marianne McCann
Feted Inner Child
Join date: 23 Feb 2006
Posts: 7,145
03-12-2009 11:30
From: Blondin Linden
The idea is that overtly sexual or violent themed areas would be classified as Adult. Sex beds in a private home, skins, and the such are all fine and would not have to move. Its when the theme or main advertising point is sexual that it would cross a line between mature and adult.


One concern that comes out of specific issues in Q4:2008, when some vendors of skins for child avatars were suspended over their vendors. Said vendors showed the upper body in an otherwise non sexual, clinical nature and were therefore declared obscene. Will certain classes of skin and other content vendors be treated different from others?
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Ann Otoole
Registered User
Join date: 22 May 2007
Posts: 867
03-12-2009 11:43
Will Linden Lab be getting into the concept of censorship and going beyond the rights and freedoms established in the Constitution of the United States of America?

Say so now. State it clearly whether or not Linden Lab is going to start making law.

Will symbols, currently not classified as adult content, become classified as adult content by Linden Lab? I.e.; Will Linden Lab begin banning or declaring as mature content:

Germanic Runes because Jewish extremists don't like it?

Inverted cross as offensive content because the Baptist church does not like it?

Barbie because Islamic extremists don't like it and think Barbie is satanic?

Will the Triskellion symbol be outlawed or declared "mature" even though there is no depiction of mature content in it?

Will vampyres be banned?

Is Linden Lab going to ban Gorean Role Play?

Will only Christians or Muslims be allowed in Second Life?

Basically is Linden Lab going to begin enforcing Religious laws and Fatwahs?

Tell us now. No corporate double talk. We all know Linden Lab makes decisions and then does this "talk to the community" feigning of interest thing so tell us what you decided and what the rules will be. People have decisions to make.
Jerboa Haystack
TGTKFMA
Join date: 23 Sep 2008
Posts: 2,283
03-12-2009 11:43
From: VooDoo Bamboo
I am sorry but are you kidding me? You must come up with something better then this.
First don't try to pass the adult stuff in SL as art.


Gotta side with Ran on this one VooDoo.

He's talking about museum pieces...how are they categorized. For example...

The famous Greek statues of Apollo and Aphrodite...Adult content, Mature? Reproductions are in every art museum in the world.

Or the Roman discus thrower... Adult? Mature? PG? (You can see his naughty bits)

Or, heaven forbid, Michelangelo's David! zomg!

The debate doesn't center around the two extremes of content, but around where the line is actually drawn.

What about other depictions of real world art? Rembrandt? Baldung? That's where this centers, not on red light districts, and naked noobs sporting wooden..erm...wood.
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Ran Garrigus
Registered User
Join date: 10 Jun 2008
Posts: 17
03-12-2009 11:46
From: VooDoo Bamboo
I am sorry but are you kidding me? You must come up with something better then this.


Well, why should I? The fact that there are people who are afraid of children seeing nipples and genitals, who don't blink at taking their children to films glorifying gory violence with limbs and heads being hacked off, is a real annoyance.


I just don't think a photorealistic skin is something that needs to be marked as "Adult". We have genitals. Kids and adults alike. There is a certain level of craft, and even artistry, in making the avatar mesh look as good (and as real) as possible. People have poured hundreds of man-hours into their skins and all the things around the business (advertisments, vendor images, etc.), and to have to be segregated as offensive when all they're doing is representing the human body that we all have is just rather retrograde. And this new talk makes it sound like they'll be even further segregated.

Blondin Linden,

Using your distinction between "mature" and "adult", would a standard skin vendor image displaying a naked avatar be adult or not? Most vendors do not sexualize the image. Yet the website guidelines defines "photorealistic nudity" as "adult".
Freyja Nemeth
Registered User
Join date: 3 Jun 2007
Posts: 117
03-12-2009 11:49
From: Blondin Linden
The idea is that overtly sexual or violent themed areas would be classified as Adult. Sex beds in a private home, skins, and the such are all fine and would not have to move. Its when the theme or main advertising point is sexual that it would cross a line between mature and adult.


I find myself wondering the same as Ran, based on the above answer.

Looking at it, I don't see how naked skins would fall under overtly sexual. There's nothing inherently sexual in nudity.

Now, sure, when you start adding prim genitalia made specifically for the purpose of simulating intercourse in SL, sure, that's overtly sexual. But the nipples on a skin, or even the pubic region of a skin? I don't see how that is overtly sexual in itself.
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