Xstreet SL and OnRez to Join Linden Lab!
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Ciaran Laval
Mostly Harmless
Join date: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 7,951
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01-21-2009 10:11
From: Grant Linden Linden Lab support competition and new marketplaces and Linden Dollar exchanges are emerging up all the time. Our interest is to improve the reach of the Xstreet services by integrating them directly into the Second Life experience. Any chance of answering the question about the speed of cashing out?
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Emme Goff
Registered User
Join date: 26 Jan 2006
Posts: 1
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just a comment
01-21-2009 10:13
*smiles* Wow, the imput! Many good suggestions made to LL from 'merchants'!!
I'm leary myself about this "take over". However, I definitely won't be doing anything rash as in taking my magic boxes up immediately. I want to continue earning as many lindens as possible with xstreet. Thus far, I've no complaints with xstreet. Until I see disadvantages that effect my small sl business I'll remain with xstreet.
I preferred xstreet over onrez because the client hit was much much higher for my small business. A large majority of my clients visit my store as a result of viewing my items on xstreet. Its been a great advertisment 'tool'. I can see and understand why LL wants to take advantage of xstreet benefits. I have not minded the small fee xstreet charges because the end result was more Lindens made inworld from visits to my inworld store. I am anxious to see what 'advantages' come about from this 'takeover'. I imagine there will be adjustments to fees eventually. I just hope the 'advantages' of using xstreet stay and increase. As others stated, I also would love to see the vending system from Onrez incorporated into xstreet. That was a major plus for me putting my items with Onrez. The fact that it costs me nothing was a big plus also!
I will say .. that now I am curious in looking into what "metaLIFE" has to offer my business!
.:UC:. Unique Creations
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YadNi Monde
Junkyard Owner
Join date: 30 Mar 2004
Posts: 189
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just souvenirs from an old blue dude
01-21-2009 10:13
in the beginning there was the grid it was our world with our imagination players created money exchange sites (gom) it was vamped by helel players organised welcoming places (ivory tower/junkyard) it was vamped by helel players created outside marketplace (slexchange-xstreet) it is vamped by helel
what about bugs? not fixed by helel where are the shadows? not implemented by helel
hopefully we can still push cubes, but yes, in time i have noticed this ability to vamp ideas and concepts while making very little progress on what we would really need them to do for a really better place.
our world our imagination was in philip s heart, sl is loosing it s heart, it will become colder, and colder...
Yours, Friendly, YadNi =)
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---------------=If It S Not Primmy It S Not A YadNi=---------------- -=In a MMORPG u levelup a Character, in SL u levelup the User.=- ----------------=Your only limit is Your imagination.=-------------- -------------------------------------------  Yours, Friendly, Yadni =) 
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Ambergris Baphomet
Hamburger Bafomay
Join date: 18 Sep 2005
Posts: 727
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And if you want to cash out fast...
01-21-2009 10:14
I have used the Lindex before: to slow and major fees I have no experience on SLX exchange other than it looked a bit too confusing to use (no surprise there so much in SL is not "AmberProof"  LOL I then met the CEO of the ELDEX Exchange by happenstance and have been using them ever since. Fast fast fast fast transactions and I have yet to see any fees http://www.eldexchange.eu/?r72~Amber
_____________________
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Grant Linden
Administrator
Join date: 2 Jun 2008
Posts: 17
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Integration is the goal
01-21-2009 10:14
From: Lafiel Takaaki Imho its not that bad, if they do some effort to really improve it and integrated it into the grid.
It would be pretty nice, if the should could be integrated into your account, so you could directly create a shop/put items for sale w/o having to buy or rent a piece of land. I think this is one of the many things which stops some people from making and selling content, because they have no land to sell it.
With the aquisition of Xstreet SL and OnRez, LL could make this an integral part of Second Life and implement it into the Viewer, so we could put items for sale w/o being forced to rent land to place the vendor on it which of course will increase the diversity of items offered on this new plattforms.
Would be nice if someone from LL could post here if there are such current plans to allow direct sales via SL Viewer w/o vending machines and land rental/buy? This is the kind of vision we are looking forward to delivering to our residents. Please continue to let us know how we can make buying and selling easier for you.
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Talarus Luan
Ancient Archaean Dragon
Join date: 18 Mar 2006
Posts: 4,831
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01-21-2009 10:15
From: Moopf Murray Not sure it's wise to do development on something that may or may not exist in one form or another. Come on, there's too many variables there and seeing how slowly the other grids have been developing, we're not talking "just around the corner" are we. I don't think that questioning existence is wise, personally. The other grids are here. They are taking paying residents, despite their "completeness", or lack thereof. Hell, SL itself lacks "completeness" in a lot of ways. Yeah, compared to the speed at which LL does stuff (3 years to banish the adfarming/extortion blight; we're still waiting for your blog post, JACK), I would DEFINITELY call it "around the corner".  From: someone 3rd party shopping sites may indeed offer something unique but the cold hard facts are that with LL owning XstreetSL and able to integrate it tightly into the SL experience, and thus obviously put it directly in-front of the main stream of SL users in an easier to use and more seamless manner than any 3rd party could do, you can be as unique as you like, it's not really going to go that far in gaining you traction. This was the hard fact that GOM faced when the Lindex was produced - you can't compete when the compeition has such a massive competitive advantage. Well, the cold, hard fact is that they could be making book right now; people are dissatisfied with LL's shoddy cash-out system which often takes weeks to get to Paypal, and now they don't do checks anymore. I suppose if you're an "all-or-nothing" idealist, there's no way anyone can compete in a particular space once it is GOM'd, but I tend to be a realist, and can find ways to adapt and still make money.  ..and let's be serious here.. LL, competitive when faced with both a technically superior and better-managed product? MANY people are ALWAYS looking for options to LL and their offerings because they are fed up with the "only game in town" being 5-card stud with a trio of rough riders using marked cards on a 3-legged card table.
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Dedric Mauriac
Registered User
Join date: 29 Nov 2005
Posts: 17
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API for 3rd party software
01-21-2009 10:16
As long as XStreetSL works, I'm fine with it. I've been using SL Exchange/XStreet SL for over 3 years now. I've also used Apez.biz, SLBoutique/OnRez, and MetaMart. XStreet is the strongest in sales. Allowing the Lindens to tie it into Second Life directly would be perfect.
I would like to see an API (REST, SOAP, etc.) exposed to 3rd party software that lets us retrieve what products we have, as well as add/edit/delete existing products. Fetching the logs through a standard API would be grand as well.
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Eli Schlegal
Registered User
Join date: 20 Nov 2007
Posts: 2,387
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01-21-2009 10:18
So let me see if I get this straight... LL gets a small transaction fee when someone purchases L$ on the lindex and a larger fee when people sell L$ on lindex. Now they are going to also take a commmision on the SLX purchases too. Sounds like they will be "taxing" the same dollar three times. Even governments don't do that. (Ok maybe sometimes)
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Holocluck Henly
Holographic Clucktor
Join date: 11 Apr 2008
Posts: 552
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01-21-2009 10:18
From: Insky Jedburgh There are several Key negative concerns with LL running Xstreet: 5. Onrez users resent losing a free service
I take it there's no chance of our carrying this over from OnRez? Or was OnRez merely bought to be disintegrated? From: someone 6. Login info will be consolidated, forcing users to use their SL names and passwords on both the website and for SL.
I want to point out another favorable feature with OnRez, one which I didn't READILY notice on XStreet, is being able to consolidate your avatars into one account.
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Dytska Vieria
+/- .00004™
Join date: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 768
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01-21-2009 10:19
If the in world shopping experience were implemented today, it would be a flop compared to the xstreet and onrez shopping experience. Why? Because of the TEXTURE BUGS where it takes some people (customers) forever to download a texture in their viewer.
So, as they are shopping in Search, if they want to view pictures of the product, they will be waiting 30 or more seconds to see something clearly where now, on xsteetsl, a web browser downloads pictures (with much higher dimensions) just like that.
I also fear LL will limit the number of pictures per product. I don't know what the limit is for xstreetsl, but I have some homes with over 15 pictures. On-Rez is only 3, which is not enough.
Regardless, without these external web-based methods to view products, the shopping experience is going to suffer because of other LL problems, especially when the Grid is Down.
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+/- 0.00004
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Nika Talaj
now you see her ...
Join date: 2 Jan 2007
Posts: 5,449
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Easy feature suggestion
01-21-2009 10:19
Grant or other Lindens: I would like to see one simple augmentation to XStreet: please expand the "gift" function to allow the Marketplace to send items directly to SL Residents who are not registered with Xstreet. Currently, you can only gft purchases to other Xstreet members.
Thanks. .
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Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 7,903
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01-21-2009 10:20
From: Colossus Linden Hey FlameRose, We will be keeping the commission and most other features of Xstreet. We will also look at additional ways to help merchants sell their goods and services. I apologize that you'll be losing a free service, but I've seen evidence that Xstreet supplies well more value to the merchants than they pay back in fees. And those fees allow us to provide that service and value. For us to succeed, our merchants have to succeed, so we'll do what we can to provide you new services to help you in that endeavor at reasonable rates to support those services. Thanks for the input --Colossus Hey, Colossus. I already pay you oodles for land. Now you want a cut of my content sales as well? coco
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Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
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01-21-2009 10:20
From: Grant Linden Linden Lab support competition and new marketplaces and Linden Dollar exchanges are emerging up all the time. Our interest is to improve the reach of the Xstreet services by integrating them directly into the Second Life experience. Dang, buddy, almost missed you 'cos y'all weren't a-wearin Linden Brown.  Does this here bit mean "the XStreetSL L$ exchange will be closed down", 'cos that's what ah think ah'm a-hearin' here.
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Ima Mechanique
Registered User
Join date: 25 Feb 2005
Posts: 23
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01-21-2009 10:20
I have been a user of both XSL and OnRez since before either changed its name. In all that time I think that XSL has only ever had one advantage in my opinion, larger customer base. It's the only reason I have continued to use it as a service.
In all aspects I prefer the OnRez way of doing things, but by far the MOST compelling feature for me, is not the free listing (although it comes high) and option to pay for highlighting, but is the log on once and have access to ALL of my avatars' accounts. When, or more likely IF, this feature makes it to XSL I may reconsider. While you're doing that, it's about time that feature made it onto the SL website so we can finally manage our alt accounts easily. However, it seems LL doesn't understand this as I received one of their "we're killing OnRez" emails to every single account, instead of just the email address listed at OnRez.
Unfortunately, I don't see much chance of this happening. The design of the two sites is a reflection of the creator's visions (or lack of) and as has beeen noted, Apotheus will still be in charge so his vision will prevail over a different one. This is the reason why competition is always a good thing, it promotes thinking in different directions.
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Meade Paravane
Hedgehog
Join date: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 4,845
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01-21-2009 10:20
Does this mean we can go back to calling it slexchange now?
XStreet just sounds so.. so.. porny.
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Grant Linden
Administrator
Join date: 2 Jun 2008
Posts: 17
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Reliability and efficiency
01-21-2009 10:21
From: Dytska Vieria From the blog... "But like Amazon or Ebay, the core of the experience will always be about efficiency."
I would rather have the core experience be about reliability.
My experience as a merchant and customer with xstreetsl has always been *reliable*, efficiency should simply be a given.
I think, based on LL's track record of messing things up, LL will do a "great" job at breaking both reliability and efficiency. Along with dependability, fast money transfers to Paypal, prompt customer support, and other things already mentioned in the previous pages.
Again from the blog: "new tools (sharable wish lists, anyone? Gifting to non-Residents? " - The track record also goes with other things such as the viewer, that whenever upgrades are added to add "new tools", something else breaks and existing features take for ever to get fixed.
I would like to think that this move would be different, but I simply don't trust LL to be able to make a such a promise based on past performance. Reliability and efficiency are both critical to the success of this effort. One of the reasons Linden Lab chose to bring Xstreet directly into the Second Life experience was the reliability of both it's technology and staff. We look forward to learning from the Xstreet team and making Xstreet even more successful - by making Residents even more successful.
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Ann Launay
Neko-licious™
Join date: 8 Aug 2006
Posts: 7,893
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01-21-2009 10:22
From: Insky Jedburgh There are several Key negative concerns with LL running Xstreet:
2. The Xstreet forums, a well regulated but surprisingly open arena for dissenting opinions about SL policies and customer abuses of Linden Labs will now be silenced in the same way that free expression is often silenced in SL forums.
Come to SLU...it's better anyway. 
_____________________
~Now Trout Re-Re-Re-Certified!~ From: someone I am bumping you to an 8.5 on the Official Trout Measuring Instrument of Sluttiness. You are an enigma - on the one hand a sweet, gentle, intelligent woman who we would like to wrap up in our arms and protect, and on the other, a temptress to whom we would like to do all sorts of unmentionable things.
Congratulations and shame on you! You are a bit of a slut.
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Colossus Linden
Linden Lab Employee
Join date: 8 Jun 2007
Posts: 7
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01-21-2009 10:23
From: Torrin Talamasca This is indeed a very interesting concept but I do have reservations about it.
My 2 major concerns are thus:
1: The ability to sell L$ for USD and transfer rapidly over to PayPal. I have used XStreet to handle these transactions because the services offered by LL are too slow. XStreet has in the past been able to move USD to PayPal within moments of submitting the transfer request. Will this remain the same once the transfer is complete or will we be forced to use the slow system we did our best to avoid? I ask this because I use PayPal to cover tier and expenses associated with SL and if it will take a week or more to see a single 20$ transaction go through then I do not see how this will benefit the merchants who rely upon the services of XStreet. Does LL plan on jacking up the wonderful system that is behind XStreet's SL/USD conversion system or does LL intend on putting their hands into a system that works very well?
2: My business specializes in adult oriented items. I know those items are a controversy in SL but alas, it is what I do and it helps support my SL use. I need to know that this merger will not affect my product or the ability to list/sell them on XStreet. How does LL plan on dealing with adult related material that is currently on XStreet?
Torrin Hi Torin Talamasca, Thanks for your informative questions. Our Desire is to give our merchants and users the best experience possible. We don't have immediate plans to change how depositing USD via paypal and withdrawing USD via paypal for Xstreet works. I believe that there are two sides to the equation that we need to keep in balance here: speed of transaction and security of transaction. We won't ever introduce a delay for no reason. However, we will monitor fraud levels and other security concerns and will introduce a delay if security concerns require it. There are not plans to do so right now and we will alert our users to any planned change. Torrin, there is no shame in having an adult oriented business. This is part of the ecosystem and we intend to support it. As long as you flag your adult items for listing in the adult section, business should continue as usual. What we will do our best not to allow is for adult oriented items to be listed in our general section where youths or professionals may come across them while expecting a family friendly or business oriented experience. So, the adult related policies which Xstreet has will stand for now and we'll refine those as we learn more about what our shoppers and merchants desire for an optimal experience. Good luck in your business. I hope you sell a lot of items in the coming weeks as we send a plethora of new shoppers into Xstreet. --Colossus
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Ciaran Laval
Mostly Harmless
Join date: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 7,951
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01-21-2009 10:24
From: Ann Launay Come to SLU...it's better anyway.  It says it's for sale at the moment !!!!
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Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 7,903
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01-21-2009 10:26
From: Grant Linden Reliability and efficiency are both critical to the success of this effort. One of the reasons Linden Lab chose to bring Xstreet directly into the Second Life experience was the reliability of both it's technology and staff. We look forward to learning from the Xstreet team and making Xstreet even more successful - by making Residents even more successful. May I also point out - and it is on the JIRA - that not all residents can use the inworld search features that are web-based. I can't scroll Search All, Showcase, or Groups. And I have an up-to-date computer, specifically designed for SL, and use Firefox. I was told on the Jira that a percentage of residents can't use these features, and they don't know why. And that was that. Now you are going to make the shopping sites the same way? And not worry about the people who can't use them? Terrific. coco
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Grant Linden
Administrator
Join date: 2 Jun 2008
Posts: 17
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A great wishlist!
01-21-2009 10:28
From: Michelle Morphett My wishlist for XStreet SL improvements ...
1) A "Skybox" Category ... I've asked Xstreet SL staff over an over for a specific category for skyboxes, and it's always "at the top of the to-do list." This is my NUMBER ONE NEED in XStreet.
2) Ability to Group Similar Products for Updates ... I have many products that are 20 copies of the same thing in different sizes or colors. Xstreet's template feature is a first step, but I'd like to see a better model for grouping nearly identical products so that I can update them all at once, instead of taking half an hour to add a note to the text of each of them, or to change the price or the photo on them all individually. In particular, I've found a need for a "grouped" text section and a separate section that's info specific to that particular item. And, as I have hundreds of products, make this something I can use for managing existing listings, not just new ones as the current templates are.
3) Ability to Categorize Products in a "Storefront" ... I oftentimes send people directly to a XStreet search for my name, which then shows all of my products at once. Instead of the chaos of hundreds of products all listed alphabetically, I'd prefer a "storefront" concept that lets me present my items to my customers by theme ... a folder for skyboxes, for scripts, for furniture, etc.
4) Make New Product/Image Uploads Faster ... this is my number one time waster.
5) Tracking XStreet & SL Income Separately ... from the FAQ on this, I see you're planning on merging SL and XStreet accounts and combining the L$ balances of both. XStreet's tracking of sales and income is much superior to SL's, whose 1-month archive limit is frustrating for real businesspeople. Also, having my XStreet sales wrapped into my SL transaction record would make it very difficult for me to pull my SL and XStreet sales apart, so I can see how much I'm making from each venue.
Thanks for listening! Storefronts are something that I liked about Onrez and I would like to design something even better for the integrated experience. I like the idea of being able to track Xstreet income separately from SL in world income. Great thinking!
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Dolescum Bonetto
Registered User
Join date: 21 Aug 2007
Posts: 17
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01-21-2009 10:29
From: Colossus Linden Hi Torin Talamasca, Thanks for your informative questions.
Our Desire is to give our merchants and users the best experience possible. We don't have immediate plans to change how depositing USD via paypal and withdrawing USD via paypal for Xstreet works. I believe that there are two sides to the equation that we need to keep in balance here: speed of transaction and security of transaction. We won't ever introduce a delay for no reason. However, we will monitor fraud levels and other security concerns and will introduce a delay if security concerns require it. There are not plans to do so right now and we will alert our users to any planned change.
Torrin, there is no shame in having an adult oriented business. This is part of the ecosystem and we intend to support it. As long as you flag your adult items for listing in the adult section, business should continue as usual. What we will do our best not to allow is for adult oriented items to be listed in our general section where youths or professionals may come across them while expecting a family friendly or business oriented experience. So, the adult related policies which Xstreet has will stand for now and we'll refine those as we learn more about what our shoppers and merchants desire for an optimal experience.
Good luck in your business. I hope you sell a lot of items in the coming weeks as we send a plethora of new shoppers into Xstreet. --Colossus All very well...but with slx....it seemed to depend on who or what time of day it was being managed, as to how your product was catagorised/removed.
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Flew Voom
Registered User
Join date: 8 Apr 2008
Posts: 23
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01-21-2009 10:30
From: Grant Linden It's great to hear your thoughts and suggestions. I am highlighting a few of the topics and here and providing some thoughts. Linden Lab support competition and new marketplaces and Linden Dollar exchanges are emerging up all the time. Our interest is to improve the reach of the Xstreet services by integrating them directly into the Second Life experience. As Colossus Linden commented earlier, we understand that the Onrez vendor system was a feature that the Residents valued and we are looking at the best approach to a networked vendor solution. Xstreet is now a part of Linden Lab and will be following the same policies and processes as in world claims. Linden Lab's DMCA Policy: http://secondlife.com/corporate/dmca.phpIt has been great to hear Resident suggestions for features for us to consider as we work to improve the Xstreet experience: Sorting by permissions, Tagging Merchandise, Vendor systems, Delivering items in folders to inventory instead of using boxes, bulk edit of item listings. I will be holding in world round tables to gather more Resident feedback as we work on the next steps for improving the commerce experience. This is all you have to say after almost 700 mostly pissed off responses? ...and totaly ignoring the things us merchants/shoppers/residents are pissed about? Typical...
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Chaffro Schoonmaker
Funny Bunny
Join date: 22 Oct 2006
Posts: 137
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01-21-2009 10:30
From: Grant Linden It's great to hear your thoughts and suggestions. I am highlighting a few of the topics and here and providing some thoughts. Linden Lab support competition and new marketplaces and Linden Dollar exchanges are emerging up all the time. Our interest is to improve the reach of the Xstreet services by integrating them directly into the Second Life experience. As Colossus Linden commented earlier, we understand that the Onrez vendor system was a feature that the Residents valued and we are looking at the best approach to a networked vendor solution. Xstreet is now a part of Linden Lab and will be following the same policies and processes as in world claims. Linden Lab's DMCA Policy: http://secondlife.com/corporate/dmca.phpIt has been great to hear Resident suggestions for features for us to consider as we work to improve the Xstreet experience: Sorting by permissions, Tagging Merchandise, Vendor systems, Delivering items in folders to inventory instead of using boxes, bulk edit of item listings. I will be holding in world round tables to gather more Resident feedback as we work on the next steps for improving the commerce experience. What sort of compensation package will you be offering merchants who have paid to customise their OnRez vendor systems, and now, presumably have to replace them? I can see nothing in the FAQ about them being compatible with a new system.
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Dolescum Bonetto
Registered User
Join date: 21 Aug 2007
Posts: 17
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01-21-2009 10:32
From: Chaffro Schoonmaker What sort of compensation package will you be offering merchants who have paid to customise their OnRez vendor systems, and now, presumably have to replace them? I can see nothing in the FAQ about them being compatible with a new system. Exactly...many thousands of lindens spent uploading for the vendor system...now defunct.
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