Xstreet SL and OnRez to Join Linden Lab!

A very good point. There's a lot of upset, angry, frustrated people here and some real answers would be a first, small step towards diffusing some of these feelings.

Hope everything will run well...

I keep a very good opinion of SLXstreet and Onrez, place for creators and customers.

Hope that will not be broken...

Do you mean " virtual income tax" or tax on your SL earnings?

I fail to see the link to this announcment on either anyway

Although the OnRez interface is much more pleasant and simple for small numbers of items, it really starts to fail compared to SLX when you have hundreds of listings. I hope we'll see something with both scalability and ease of use.

There is similar problem with OnRez vendors. They are really good if you want something simple, but you have to go beyond them when you grow.

I hope LL will make an open interface so that people like Hippo can make a good integration of their vendors. I do not want to see LL have a monopoly on vendor systems too.

I am mostly now concerned that LL's corporate goals will interfere with what was a free market. I would like to hear that there is some sort of firewall between the policies of LL and those of the marketplace. I hear the words "deep integration" which could be good for the technology, but what about "shallow integration" of policy?

I at first thought this was cool... Untill i saw they were gonna shut down OnRez...

I just started Using OnRez.

I "Was" a member of Xstreetsl, untill i was booted for a misunderstanding of 2 products i was selling (Landmark to my store, and a Non-Commision Shop at Home Vendor) all of which were free.

To make a long story short, the Shop at home vendor was removed First, but i never got notice, and didn't know what happened to it (thought it was a problem with xssl). So i relisted it, and then listed a landmark. (Not knowing Landmarks were not allowed, as well as Shop at Home Vendors).

I did Read the TOS of xssl, but i guess i didn't read all the area's.

Anyways, my Question is this:

OnRez gets shutdown, and then i am SOL. What are the Odd's of having my account on xssl turned back on?

Thanks
~Jeff

I met these people to .. and continue to support them aswell.. lets hope this will be THE oppertuniti for them to grow .

Lol this is LL we are talking about...of course something will be broken, borked, f***ed up, etc lmfao. Their customer satisfaction rating is well...HORRIBLE. I dont think I have EVER read a thread (ok well maybe one back in 2005) that said WAY TO GO LL, GREAT CUSTOMER SERVICE!!! lol...sigh...quite pathetic if you ask me. Ironically enough, if ANY merchant were to treat their customer base how LL treats many of us. Word of mouth would spread like wildfire and buh bye business....Guess LL is like a kitty with 9 lives...

Darg ( who ever you are ) Go back to Xstreet Forums whilst you can.. Im flattered your first "grown up" post on SL official forums was dedicated to me..no really.. I am touched..


Thank you....kisses!!!

Personally I think this is a great move. I can only see the positive here. The potential and possibilities are now expanded thanks to this strategic acquistion.

Yes Xstreet is a brilliant service thanks to Apoth but he did not always care what was right or wrong or about the truth but only what his friends told him to be true and about having the last word. Now we hear that he and his team shall be Lindens.

What concerns me most is how some of the Xstreet staff were simply made Lindens. Some of those people abused their power running Xstreet. They selectively enforced the ToS. They unjustly banned many SL residents. This is also one reason why many simply refused to use Xstreet.

On behalf of those SL residents who were sent into exile unfairly, will they now be unbanned from the Xstreet service since Xstreet is now owned by Linden Lab?

Will these "new" Lindens have access to our SL accounts, personal info, etc? Because quite frankly I do not trust that at all.

To sum it all up, I think this is a good move and I wish Apoth and others the best but please forgive me if I say that I do not trust this situation.

Don't take my life stock off line PLEASE PLEASE

I only wonder if with this integration we will be having to continue paying our Ls into the street or if we will be able to use them directly from "pocket". The thing that keeps me from making more purchases on XStreet is the having to go to a high lag location to find a terminal to pay in. If I could use my L from "pocket" at home that would, in my opinion, be a huge advantage. {possibly the only real advantage that could come from this}

Wait and you think LL cares about what is right? *rolls eyes*

#


awww your first "grown up" post in SL Official forums...and dedicated to me!

Im touched.

I think alot of people forget the basics of business. Here let me use a stupid explanation. So a multi million dollarchain store around the world comes out with a brand new never seen before "microwave popcorn eating fork". It hits big on the market and is the new fad. Suddenly theres another company who comes out with the same thing and its killing business. Now keep in mind, the product you have successfully brought to peoples life for enjoyment, is sold in a store, that sits on someones property. So in a sense the person the store leases the property from is responsible to take care of the copyrights? I think not. I'm not saying go buy yourself the biggest craziest deform script, or the best gun SL money can buy and become a electronical cowboy and go shooting up the bad guys. There are laws(which i'm not sure would apply to SL or a computer game that has a market as SL does) but look into it. YOU as the creator are responsible for YOUR welfare and well-being. If you feel that strongly about it? Make sure you have sufficient proof, call a lawyer and take action. Get a copyright, pattern, whatever(again not sure how that would work for a virtual wrld). LL has very little responsibility in this matter and if and when they do get involved, remember, they really dont even need to as the "world owner". Another fine example to hopefully shed some light on the subject. human forced slavery has been happening for thousands of years. In this day and age now, of computers you can talk too. vacuums that vacuum themselves and all the wonderful technology we have grown into as a world over the last few thousand years...guess what. forced slavery is still alive and thriving. There wil always, always, always be thiefs and copyrighters. Fact of life. The better you protect your property and creations in "legal ways". The less likely you are to get ripped of your wonderful idea. xD

Two words: 'Utter Disaster'. Fancy handing over XLSSL to some bunch of noobies who can't even get their own website right.

So how much of our money did they waste on 'acquiring' these two commodities?

YEah really these are the same people whose system ate my house and everything in it, and when i submitted a ticket, they admitted the loss and that they were unable to recover the items. Their solution? To leave it "Unresolved" and tell me to track down the sellers of the items and ask them for replacements. Translation "Go ask someone else for help kid."

Yes, I agree. They ban for no reason. I see the same issues across the board, they took an item off and no one gets the email..you relist because you think it's a mistake on your error and then bam....you are banned. cant even shop there?? What is going to be done about this? Because this seems a very real issue. This really needs to be focused on. If the staff of XStreet will have access to personal information...this needs to be known as well. I was banned because they CHANGED their TOS right in the middle of a dispute I had with them about a listing. I did a print screen of the TOS and just five mins later they changed it...and I called them on it. did it piss them off? of course!!! So..will someone else be taking over XStreet and the old staff gone!!? They are power hungry people and unfair in their banning decisions. Anyone know of other vendors besides XStreet and Onrez that we can use?

One word... "Patent" and it's not a type of leather.

I have heard of the Xstreet acquisition. Nice.
I have some questions about Xstreet staff, "disabling" peoples accounts, including my own for reasons that are not against the LL Terms of Service(TOS) nor against the Xstreet Terms of service.

On 12-29-08 my Xstreet account was disabled after I transfered 24,000L from my account zFire Xue, to my roommate's MLchael Swashbuckler.

I contacted Xstreet then Tigsman Talon said I was "money laundering" and no longer welcome at Xstreet.

I explained that I had 2 items ranked as high as #8, and that they can clearly see my Linden Dollars are from a successful business of selling high ranking products on Xstreet, NOT fraud, nothing illegal as they are fully capable of verifying.

Tigress Stormwind said:
"Linden Lab does not allow our service to be used to transfer L$ from one
account to another when those accounts have logged in from the same
computer. Unfortunately, when we find this has happened, we have no
choice but to disable all accounts associated or involved with these
transactions."

I pointed out that Tigress Stormwind was indeed wrong. Xstreet TOS did not notify users this action was forbidden & that LL TOS does not forbid this action as she claims. I also pointed out that Apez.biz (an Xstreet Competetor) allows this.

Tigress Stormwinds said:
"If Apez wishes to risk being shut down by Linden Lab, should LL find out
this is happening, that's their choice. We however, have too much at
stake to risk losing our business by going against Linden Lab's wishes."

Knowing she was wrong, I spoke with Michael Linden (with Permission to quote)
[17:02] Michael Linden: What's up?
[17:02] zFire Xue: Hey!
[17:03] zFire Xue: I was wondering if there was a TOS rule against transfering Lindens from one person to another thru one of these selling sites like xstreet or onrez.com or apez.biz
[17:03] zFire Xue: apez.bez alows it.. and Xstreet says it is money laundering
[17:04] Michael Linden: Well, we don't enforce any deals. As far as we're concerned, if you use the telephone, or the internet, or a company, to agree on a Linden dollar exchange, that's between you and the other person.
[17:04] zFire Xue: Xstreet said apez.biz is wrong, but both have the SL linden exchange api, so there big time
[17:04] zFire Xue: Hmmm
[17:04] Michael Linden: We don't actually do the transfer, of course.
[17:04] zFire Xue: True
[17:05] Michael Linden: We give and take money from apez and Xstreet to Residents same as anyone else.
[17:05] zFire Xue: Xstreet said that if I pay into an account with them,, that money goes to another avatars account with them, then back inworld.. thats a banable offence with SL and xstreet
[17:06] Michael Linden: Uh ... I'd have to see their TOS about that. But not a bannable offense for SL, anyway, as you've described it.
[17:06] Michael Linden: It's just moving L$ around.
[17:06] zFire Xue: Yep.
[17:06] zFire Xue: Its not in the Xstreet TOS either
[17:07] Michael Linden: Now, if I was them, I wouldn't do it, because it CAN be and aoften IS used for money laundering.
[17:07] Michael Linden: When people steal L$ they want to hide the L$.
[17:08] Michael Linden: If they can put it into Xstreet or whatever, and then have it come back to a differetn SL account, they've hidden it from us until we check with Xstreet.
[17:08] zFire Xue: I see and understand Xstreets point for anti fraud, but both partys said it was not fraud,, all the linden was mine, from sales on Xstreet, and they are mad that I transfered it out, and banned me
[17:08] zFire Xue: I understand that point.
[17:08] Michael Linden: Well, they do business as they see fit, with whom they want.
[17:08] zFire Xue: True
[17:09] zFire Xue: Ok, I just wanted to know if they are incorrect about the Linden rule they claimed.
[17:09] zFire Xue: So then its up to them to be reasonable or not.
[17:09] zFire Xue: Ok, thanks Michael
[17:09] zFire Xue: Thats everything I expected.
[17:10] zFire Xue: Mind if I quote ya, as far as how I asked, and how it was worded, so I dont take it out of context?
[17:10] Second Life: User not online - message will be stored and delivered later.
[17:42] Michael Linden: Sure, go ahead. Again, I can't say what their own terms of service are.
[17:58] zFire Xue: ok thanks. And yes I know. They know their own TOS ofcourse


I pointed respectfully corrected Tigress Stormwind, and she muted me and blocked my email communications with Xstreet support. I emailed from another account, and was blocked again. I wrote the Better Business Bureau, Apotheus Silverman (Jay Geeseman) called him, left a message, gave him a notecard that he accepted, offered to meet them in-world WITH MLchael Swashbuckler, on voice let everyone meet everyone, explain that there was no fraud and they could verify this.

I believe that they became bitter because of my pursuit into the matter, and careless with customer support because of the pending sale of Xstreet to LL.

I had amazing feedback and comments on Xstreet for my products that I continued to support for my buyers with upgrades. My sales are verifiable, and every Linden I made.
They misquoted the rules and I only want the opportunity to sell my items.

Now that LL owns Xstreet, I hope that this and other more serious fraud related issues with Xstreet can be cleared up.

Thank you for your time,
This was the "short version"

zFire Xue

PS: I have also created a script to monitor the incoming signal that tells an Xstreet Magic Box to deliver its item to a buyer after finding that on some days I have my average traffic on Xstreet, but ZERO sales. I became suspicious that Xstreet may have been keeping $L by not logging sales on my system. Error or Fraud, it DOES happen as anyone can see if you monitor your own Xstreet Magic box! I have had my items delivered an NO SALE logged with my account! I am also aware of others who's accounts have been closed with $25,000 USD (not $L) and not given a refund. (So they tell me.) Will this be cleaned up if LL takes over? The number of users on Xstreet and its ease of use are a god send to my business with SL, I only want the chance to reach out to SL users again. (But I will not trust my money to an Xstreet account.)

Same as having your internet connection blamed when they don't actually know what the nature of the problem is, lol.

thats what i meant xD, in a nutshell

Well said.



To the Lindens staffing this thread,

I would like to think this will end up being a good move for SL, vendors, and merchants. However, I, like the 15 pages of posters before me, have more than reasonable doubts.

Face it, LL does not have a great track record for trust at the moment.

XstreetSL and onREZ have both built up reputations for being accessible, having strong customer service, and engendering a sense of security and esteem in both vendors and customers.

We worry about losing a tool we trust. As it stands, this announcement sounds to us like we already have by virtue of your taking ownership. In light of many Linden Lab decisions this year, you can't blame us for our wariness.

Please prove us wrong,
~Vivito Volare

Xstreet already has a similar type of box that allows you to draw funds directly from your Avatar account. I've been using it eversince i joined Xstreet and have never used a terminal except to join.

I'm greatly saddened by this development. XStreet was an efficient and well run business and the only real hope I had for the long term survival of the metaverse. Now, it will almost certainly be ruined. This my friends is the beginning of the end. I already had one foot out the door. Now I'm done with SL.

So, tomorrow, if I can actually log in and stay in world for long enough... I am going to go remove all my free items from the GNUbie store, and then from the Stillman Bizarre, and then finally from my own store. If Sl and/or LL want something, they can pay me for it, since the $ is king. And they should be ashamed for ever asking me to give the freebies they won't ever fork over.

If you want them for free, get them now.