Xstreet SL and OnRez to Join Linden Lab!

lol is it just me or is Xstreet already loading slower?

www.apez.biz

Thats my other option for cashing out IF lindenlabs indeed sinks their foul claws into the current Xstreet moneypool. And considdering LL's reputation with fee's and comissions... *sighs and registers with apez*

i have news for you- it makes no difference how much you spend. i spend more than 10x this much in LL fees each month, and am treated no better.

Oh yes, LL needs to get rid of those power mongler @&%@'ers!
I am the Founder of the group "Anti-Xstreet". Check it out, Xstreet is run by some crooks!

I have been waiting for LL to "buy out" OnRez and Xstreet for a long time. The only thing that surprises me is the amount of time it has taken for this to happen. As far as what the results will be, I think that everyone knows (or suspects) the answer: Think of the worst-case scenario, multiply by 10, and apply it like salt to an open wound. LL poisons everything they touch, including their own product.

Could we stop saying "moving forward"? I realize it's a college saying that
is meant to sound intelligent but in reality is used mostly when some
destroyed enterprise needs fixing or when someone thinks they are
going to make a lot of money from some newfangled scheme either
of which makes the saying "moving forward" sound like we better beware.

I agree its unfair to just ban someone.

xssl was almost 45-50% of income to keep up with my in-world store.

When i lost my xssl account, i started losing my income.

OnRez was my New Choice to use, as they allowed Landmarks to be sold, if they were in an object.

I just hope us that were booted unfairly, are let back in so we can reach people in SL again.

I might imagine that the major reasons for prompting this buy-out have pretty little to do with "LL wanting to be a monopoly", although I'm pretty sure that's what the media (SL media mostly) will say.

There is one practical side to it. IMVU has a content market almost as big as SL's (they have roughly the same number of content creators — about 100,000 — and more registered accounts), not in terms of unique items (SL has perhaps 2200 times more content), but in sales. The reason? All sales go via Web, they're not done in-world. In fact, all 3D virtual worlds I've seen so far have Web-based shopping, with the possible exception of vSide (which I never managed to figure out how in-world sales worked).

IMVU's web shop is hopeless to search for anything. If you think that the SL in-world search function is bad, you've definitely never shopped with IMVU I stick to buying randomly things from Anshe Chung on IMVU, at least I know she's a trusted merchant

So I understand that one of the reasons for LL to accept to buy XstreetSL was to fill in a gap: compete with all other virtual worlds by providing their "own" web shop, too. But they were clever: instead of reinventing the wheel and create their own system, and get all merchants in XstreetSL and OnRez Shop furious, they simply bought them. With that, they start entering the webshop business with a huge load of content, registered accounts, and a thoroughly tested environment. It's a smart move. In fact, if it weren't for some reasons that will remain unexplained publicly, this is precisely what LL wanted to do with GOM too. I'm actually happy that Apotheus (and Anshe Chung, who owned 70% of XstreetSL) went with it.

OnRez is a different issue. It started out as SL Boutique, done by the immensely talented FlipperPA Peregrine, a bit before the Electric Sheep Company was created, hired Flip, and integrated SL Boutique into the Sheep's brand for SL-related products, OnRez. Since mid-2008, however, ESC had already given strong hints to partners and customers that they were "phasing out" their work in SL (what possibly prompted them to commit financial suicide that way will never transpire and is just the province of speculation). Some of the Sheep's customers of the personalised version of the OnRez client had been given due notice that their viewer would be phased out in February this year. I had not realised that this basically meant shutting down the OnRez shop too.

So, LL's "evil monopoly" is actually stretching out a hand and try to capture and win back the hearts of those poor OnRez merchants and give them an alternative. For that, I'm quite grateful to LL, even if it means adapting to a new system. I use both and I'm not afraid of commenting that OnRez's look and feel and browsing experience is far superior (it didn't start that way, though!); on the other hand, except for last month, I had always sold far more on XstreetSL — perhaps 10-20 times more.

How much is "more" really? For irrelevant content creators like myself, 95% of all sales came from XstreetSL (and practically nothing from in-world sales — after all, I don't own giga-malls and I don't do product launches, parties, gift certificates, treasure hunts, or whatever it takes to drive traffic to my tiny shops), and with an integration in SL's own site (or even the viewer!), I can only expect more customers, so at the end of the day, this will be a *good* move for the small fry like myself.

But we have to be realistic. XstreetSL lists about half the number of items than IMVU's own shop. It's very very hard to determine sales on either system, but we know that XstreetSL has about 1/4000th or 1/5000th of all content in SL listed there — a tiny, tiny fraction. In terms of "earning comissions" for LL, so that they become richer and more powerful, well, you can discount that whole idea. OnRez never made enough to support itself; XstreetSL barely supports Apotheus' teams and the costs of maintaining it. Granted, we will see some increased sales if XstreetSL is somehow placed inside LL's viewer, but as it stands right now, it's not a HUGE source of profit for LL. It's enough for Apotheus & the XstreetSL gang, of course, since they're a tiny company, but it's not a huge business.

No, I really think that the reason was mostly that OnRez would go away anyway, and probably Anshe is making more money out of IMVU than out of XstreetSL (at the very least, she was selling content on the IMVU webshop *without any costs associated to running the infrastructure* since it's IMVU that provides it for her, for free), and was planning to drop it. Getting the two major web shops out of the SLogosphere in a stroke was more than LL could bear — so they stepped in (like they did with GOM) and tried to "save" the projects. This means embracing them and putting them under their fold. I'm pretty sure that the ESC were quite happy to get rid of something they didn't want anymore and make some money out of it; I'm also sure that Anshe was happy to sell what probably was not making enough profit for her; and Apotheus has only to be glad (and congratulated!) for being able to continue to develop his product, have it fully integrated into LL's infrastructure (servers, viewer), increase the customer base radically, and overall giving us merchants a much higher visibility for little cost.

Really, you have to take into account that the amount of sales on both these web shops always were *minuscule*. Most major SL brands never had their products for sale there (there are obviously a few exceptions); almost all their income always came from in-world sales. An interesting reaction will come not from the handful of merchants on XstreetSL/OnRez (yes, guys, admit it, we're not many, compared to the grid-wide explosion of content creators), but from the in-world merchants, who will suddenly realise that the "small fry" will be able to compete on in-world searches with a better interface *and not even need a shop for that*.

What will that imply? If webshop-based shopping catches on — like, of course, it does in There.com, IMVU, Kaneva, Twinity, and whatever fancies you — this will mean that all of a sudden the small shops in SL will close. Then the malls will lose customers — malls rely on the "small fry" mostly, and these will be far better off with a webshop-based solution. But at some point, this will mean that the in-world island-sized megashops will suddenly find it very hard to compete. They might hold on for a while — since the big brands might add a new stream of revenue from webshop shopping that will allow them to pay for tier — but at some point, what will be the point for them to keep those huge islands full of content, if basically everybody will shop out of web shops?

Content creators are huge landowners. They make LL happy with their tier. They are also attracted by land rental managers to keep a thriving community happy with their business. This all might disappear very quickly, and SL might become a shop-less environment. The consequences of this is that RL brands will also suddenly give up on SL as a "valid 3D shopping experience", since nobody else will have shops in SL, so why should they even try?

I don't know if I like this scenario in the long run. I'm actually fond of web-based shopping — I even do that a lot for my RL clothes, so why not for the SL clothes? — but I will also miss the experience of going on a shopping spree with friends, talk about what we're seeing, complain about the lag (always!), chat with the owners and so on... this is where SL added value on the whole shopping experience which was *unique* and not available on *any other virtual world* (with the possible exception of vSide...).

So, if I were LL, I'd not overcommit to turn SL's shopping experience into a clone of IMVU. Let XstreetSL/OnRez be around, sure — buying them out from unwilling funders (but very willing techies!) that were prepared to drop them was a smart move. Giving them some more visibility is also nice — XstreetSL merchants will appreciate the increased sales. But be wary of making the webshop experience a real competitor to in-world shopping, or a whole industry will crash.

So mmh after 5000 islands disappeared in a month... I'm pretty sure nobody LL wishes to see many more than that (all those islands from in-world merchants) close down as well. It would be ironical that the reign of M Linden would mean that in a year, LL's landmass would shrink to a third of what it was before (halving LL's income) because of poor decisions and worse communication. *Not* a good way to start

This will be tough to handle.

I've been in SL waaaay too long - and I'm sure others who've been here as long and few longer will agree - as history has shown:


This is a done deal. Opinions here are a mere formality - in fact even being alerted is a formality. This will go through - and if we have learned from history we know 'this will not end well'. Shiney-de-jour till something more fun comes along to be half-finished.

(See your unfinished Animation implimentation from 1.4 - phantom amounts on Lindex - the list goes on and on - the camera system that still doesn't quite work but nearly broke animation permissions to rush to live... the amount of unaddressed beta issues that are ignored for the same - and of course we've seen this all before with G.O.M....)

All you can do is hit on the issues that are important to you and DEMAND that they are not skipped over - the payout issue - the banned account issues etc. until you get an ANSWER... remember it probably won't be the answer you want..... that again is a naught but a formality... but at least then you can prepare for what comes later.

Personally I forsee: Lindex integration that will INCLUDE the current delays. I see content theft being dealt with as it is now, and likewise the banned accounts (that is the 'oh sad - too bad' approach - and I tell you it's a lot easier to protect your content when it isn't the 'world owner' who makes it open perms for you with a database screwup in the first place).....

These are the trials and tribulations of Second Life - and to be honest, a lot of your concerns WILL fall on deaf ears till you're sick of repeating them until the next issue arrives and the process starts all over again.

Now folks can cheerlead all they like - but I've seen it all before, and in a few years you'll slowly slide over to the 'dark side' just as I have (although I prefer to call it the 'realist side') - and you'll be typing these words to another populous of 'three wise monkeys'.

It is what it is, although I do think things would go smoother if the powers that be stop trying to make the joint out to be more than the video game it is - and stop deluding its players into thinking its some kind of democracy or that input is valuable.

Could'nt have said it better...AMEN

You asked for feed back so here it is.

I have Items Listed on Xstreet. and I just found OnRez. The way the OnRez is set up is alot easier to manage your Items .

Also the Vendor System that OnRez has is absolutely Wonderful. I love the way you can set up different vendors with just a click and manage everything with the OnRez system

at this Time until you can incorporate the Vendors into Xstreet. I think you should Keep the OnRez Site open also.

Now as far as searching I love the way the Xstreet Pages pull up alot more than the OnRez.

I know each site has its unique style So I would look at incorporating the best features of OnRez onto Xstreet. Especially if your going to shut down OnRez.

1. the vendors.
2. the management is so much easier
3. again The Vendors. because they cross everything from the site to inworld.
4. this helps with your Transaction management also.

Seems to me if one site can figure out how to do Vendors that are wonderful. The Xstreet can also.


Thanks Cant wait to see how this one turns out..

I have no desire to use SLX, or to be involved in anything they're a part of. (I'm sure this post will be removed like my other post mentioning SLX.)


I stopped working with SLX a long time ago, for good reason, and if you're now going to force the merge, without my or anyone else's consent, then I'll just bow out.

I will NOT use SLX, or any company associated with them. Do NOT transfer any of my money or Linden dollars over to their accounts... you do NOT have my permission to send or transfer ANY of my holdings to ANY company that is associated with SLX. Ever. Never.

Well LL at least sends you an email, then bans your account, with the same automatic system setup. Shoot first, ask questions later. HOPEFULLY the new SLX will allow you to explain yourself and unban you! So far, fat chance! It does not look good.

Yea I know. I HOPE they do unban people who made a simple mistake. Their Support People could use work to. Last one i talked too, was just way too rude sounding.

~Jeff

For me that means much more users of Apez.biz soon

Jonquille, I totally understand how you feel. However, it will not be SLX as you know that you would be dealing with but Linden Lab. This is not a merger but an acquistion.

so LL, currently your policy on residents losing money is basically "don't look at us, we're not going to be held responsible"... will this be changing now that you've left everyone with no alternatives?? >.>

Well said, and exactly true.
Thank you.

This kinda pisses me off, there is a phrase "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" or in this case I guess its "It ain't broke, so lets break it, then we have an excuse to fix it"

I love OnRez, I love the layout, its simple to go through. I stopped liking xstreet because everything is so cluttered and search is pointless. 90% of my sales happen through OnRez because they have a layout that is clean and works.

I don't see this as a "for the better" I see this as a monopoly and selfishness of marketing space, so they can set the fees and commissions and price on advertisements to earn it themselves.

Nothing one can do though, what happens happens.

I love to have separated accounts info (Xstreet one and SL one) so I can know better how is going my inworld and how is going my web shop..

I know, reading back to the Xstreet FAQ was written: "I have alot of money inworld, why it says that I have no money" that fixes that part, if Xstreet will have the same L$ info, nobody will complain about the fact that you have no money to buy that thing(at least if you see 0 L$ you are sure to have nothing in your pocket).

A question: Xstreet fees will change?

So the story goes, but I don't for one second believe that both OnRez and SLX just gave up their companies and code for some cash... do you?

I also liked OnRez much more. Tho i just started Using it.

It is way more easy than xssl is. You have Vendors you can create packs for, and sell items from an inworld vendor from only that pack.

I would rather keep OnRez online, and do away with xssl. But thats just My Opinion.

~Jeff

It was said that the teams would be integrated into LL to handle this - so actually her problems that were with the original will be carried over and integrated into the new, and thus remain.

For some folks there is an ethical choice that goes way way way back into SL history and the formation of SLX. For folks in that situation - the only thing that's changing is the color of the uniform, not a true changing of the guard.

So - knowing the history I can respect the decision.

YO, LAB!

YOU HAVE PEOPLE ASKING QUESTIONS LEFT RIGHT AND CENTRE HERE! NOT ONE RESPONSE?

Are you aware that the Internet is accessible in almost every country in the world? This means that you can have 2 (or more) people working for the same organisation in different time zones! If you have a product or service that caters for customers or users across different time zones, you may wish to consider having people around to field these questions and points as they come in, rather than waiting for half the world to go to bed, sneak on, answer the queries with a few vague responses, then lock the thread before anyone is given the right to reply.

I would draw your attention to the following post, by a Linden, that I consider a binding contract. Don't make me hunt you down and bite your kneecaps.

/352/21/300019/4.html#post2271609

It would appear that the overwhelming majority of people posting here would very much like you to keep XStreetSL and OnRez as two seperate entities, certainly for the time being. I am sure that the price of a few premium accounts would cover hosting and domain name fees. I would respectfully ask that you agree to consider that option, and I would also very much like for you to acknowledge this post.

Regards!

And LL does not?
Maybe they will make a perfect couple then ^^.

Well if it turns out to be a bad bad decision, maybe some other residents can make a new web based application? Like.. a new SLX, but runned by residents and not lindens.