Upcoming Changes for Adult Content: Motivations and Goals

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I, too, know Minx and know her to be a forthright and honest person. As for your talking about Native Americans as you do? You do not talk for all of them. I personally know many Native Americans. Just because we are not pure blooded does not make us any less proud of our Native American heritage nor any less Native American than those who can name their tribes. Much was lost to many over time and through prejudice. It is wrong to be committing the same "reverse" prejudice against your half brothers and sisters.

There are many Native Americans who proudly and openly welcome all. There is a saying told to me by a Cherokee : "It is not how much blood you have that makes you Native American (sorry he used another term I can't remember) it is how much HEART you have" What he was saying is many full blooded are less "Indian" than those of us with 1/16th or 1/99th.

Records can lie. Not all of us know from whence we come. I come from a Great-Great Grandmother and back in her time it was a "shame" to be "Indian". Many did not register because of that.

Now is a different time.

If you look at the top of your screen, you will see that this forum is called Upcoming Changes for Adult Content: Motivations and Goals. May I suggest that those wishing to debate Native American history and culture begin a new thread. It is an interesting topic - and well worth discussing - but thoughts relating to that subject are being wasted because they are being posted in the wrong thread.

That's great.

We need people who are tribal members in SL to speak for the tribes. This proposed policy will go a long way to make that happen. I have spoken to so many tribal leaders and tribal organization who have turned away from SL because they are offended by the way Indians are portrayed here by non-Indians. Insulting all the enrolled Indians doesn't do anyone here any good.

Clearly, nobody in this discussion wants to hear about Indians any more. Further questions and comments on this subject need to go to private IM.

Gorean slaves wear silks almost universally. i dunno where the hell you are getting this crap from. Aboriginal Americans didn't wear silks. Panthers wear skins and stuff, but that has nil to do with anything American, pre-or-post colonization.

Again, unless you are just saying anything remotely primitive is aboriginal American, which is as big a farce as your faux morality. It's a sci-fi book wherein people from Earth have been kidnapped and taken to another world to evolve there. You really have no clue whatsoever about anything you are talking about.

Matthew - Your use of the words "senior managers" impugns the competency of managers everywhere. I have had extensive conversations with numerous Lindens, but have not yet met one I would call a "manager," senior or otherwise. The way these changes are being handled just reinforces my belief that what LL most lacks is strategic "management."

I'm pretty sure most of the Lindens are smarter than you are. : )

Cataloguing and organising content which meets specific criteria to allow it to be relocated to a specific location, is only a short step from allowing "regulators" to entirely excise it without the rest of the world noticing.

A very similar thing happened in the real world in the 1930s and 1940s.

"First they came…"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came...

It happened then because no-one spoke up. It was always someone else who was affected.

In SL first it was the "Age Play", then it was "Gamers of Chance", then it was "Bankers & Lenders", and now "Adults" are on the line for the gas chamber... when will your passion become unacceptable too?

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When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.

When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for the Jews,
I remained silent;
I was not a Jew.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.

---------

Much like the very short assuming everyone else is just very tall, I suppose. Another post that totally refuses to back up your weird fixation with Gorean sims slighting your ethnicity, though. Ethnocentrism to a vulgar extreme.

I've read a couple of the books, and visited the sims. There's nothing there that would offend the Cherokee people i grew up with in NC. I've been to the homecomings, spent time in the reservation. I see nothing in Gor remotely similar.

If people borrow from the culture here and there it is far less than they borrow from other cultures. By no means are the Panthers in the source material aboriginal peoples either. I just think you saw a flag and made radical assumptions.

Or you are just deranged.

I am leaning toward the latter.

I'll send the photos and landmarks with the abuse reports.

It is difficult for people outside a culture to understand the value of that culture and the diversity it adds to the mix in an international world like this. I think some of the Lindens may.

Hi all,

The discussion is drifting a bit from questioning the motivations, premises, and reasoning of Linden Lab to questioning the motivations and character of fellow participants.

Please refrain from ad hominem attacks on one another, and we do ask that you move potentially intriguing discussions which have no direct bearing on the announcement to a separate thread.

Thanks!

enough

Nadine Zeid
Skyes Jarvinen
Lix.. wuvs ya

and yus lets all get back on topic

The upcoming changes have me rather worried as a merchant here in SL. My store would be perfectly fine classifed as mature. the name of my store is quite possibly another story "Simply Orgasmic" I sell mostly lingerie and more daring clothing. Im not sure how the word filters will affect my ability to advertise.
These are just some of the issues i see before us. Even for educational purposes, can you see a woman health class talking about the troubles of achivinig orgasm if that word is filtered, or a group designed to help women break out of the adult entertainment buisenss ie, (Strippers) if they cant say we are here to help you leave that buisness and so forth, what are the Linden's plans for filters involving education, surport groups or stores that rely on these words to get there point across that dont involve overtly mature content?

Now lets move on

Like you in relation to the Gorean culture?

If land and shops and advertising is rented out, who is responsible for correct flagging ? The tenant or the owner ? If it is the owner be sure you lose the people who pay to make SL running very fast on being innocently banished. You should mention in TOS that the person actually using and making the content of a parcel is responsible and that it is enough for an owner to have that in a notecard that they have to agree on renting and/or the covenant.

Also I would be generally pretty generous about the definitions, if it is not explicitely hard stuff like BDSM it should be more or less ok. I just remind you with the 5%, are you sure about that ? Almost every pretty harmless furniture shop has one or two sexbeds. Do they have to move their biz ? Is the search to be tagged adult ? If so I assume we are speaking of far more than 5%.

As a manager for lands my experience is different. 95% of the houses have sexbeds, and they are asked for with the free furniture provided. It is pretty standard that a base sexbed goes with a furniture set.

So is it enough to label a department as adult while the general search for the shop is not mature ? Like 95% of their content is not mature, but that 5% make 25% of the turnover directly or enabling a set sales.

As I say I am not speaking of a sex business, normally such things are not promoted especially, they are just there to have them in offer. Neither in ads nor in explicite images.

I propose that it should be sufficient if 90% of a shop is non adult that a sign to a separated department "adult content" should be sufficient as long as it is not really tough stuff there.

This is totally bogus!! Once again Americans, and "american" sensabilities trump all?? Have we learned nothing?? This is censorship plain and simple and it is imposing some arbitrary standard (american) on people. Classic political "correctness." Thank god i have washington and the lindens to tell me what i am too stupid to figure out on my own. THANK YOU!!

Content is already sorted by "mature" content.. i think we can pretty much all agree on what that is, but to now have the the linden police out scouring sims and making some determination on their own about what constitutes "adult" content?? Come on??

I think to this point we as a community have done alright. There are mature sims and there are PG sims.. and within those worlds are a wealth of rich and varied content. And true, not all is my cup of tea, but so what, who am I to say good/bad, right/wrong?? I can TP out as fast as i did in (most of the time), but within that world are things for every taste. That is how it is!! And it's great!! I mean when i accidently land in some totally offensive sim, how quickly, under the lag consolidation plan, am i going to be able to TP back out?? Will I be able to TP at all??

This is so offensive. Censorship. And who gets to make these determinations?? Joe McCarthy? J. Edgar Hoover? Bill Clinton?? The Vatican? The Taliban?? Think about it.. burhka shops blooming like an Afghan poppy field all over SL.

SL is an inherently 'adult' (over 1 community. Trust us to BE adults. Trust us to be able to click, or unclick a mature box. Trust us to read a sim description before we TP, trust us to have the freedom to explore SL without looking over our shoulders for the "Religious Police" of the Taliban!!

Topless women in america is "adult" but in much of the world it's considered perfectly normal and natural and not even "mature content."

SL is a global community. Far more than half of my friends here, live outside the United States.

This is a classicly American issue.. imposing american tastes, sensabilities, predjudices, mores on the rest of the world.. It is the reason we are so loved around the globe. PLEASE, PLEASE, do not "americanize" SL. Do not impose some "standard" that is such a slippery slope, where does it end once it begins?? I mean really??

If anything should be "adult,' if anything should be shuttled off to it's own little laggy corner of sl, it's the violence.. the blood and gore and guts the murder and maiming and war-gaming that goes on.. that IS offensive.. that IS morally reprehensible under every social, religious and moral standard. Not nudity, Not sex... Not love. The contradiction is appaling, and it's such a sad, sorrowful statement about the world in which we live, both in rl and sl..

Go ahead.. kill.. maim... assault.. just make sure you have a shirt on while you do it.

@DDee Halfpint - I couldn't agree more with what you have said.

I was under the impression that we have to be 18 to be on the main grid. As age 18 is the age of majority in the U.S., I would have thought that means we are adults who can choose what we wish to see and not see within a virtual world. We have so many tools now in order to filter out things and remove ourselves from things we don't wish to be around. Most times we can TP out of uncomfortable situations with ease. We can filter out adult things in searches. And, as adults, if we become so highly offended by something in SL, there's always that red "x" we can click to just shut down SL.

It just boggles the mind that some believe adults need to be monitored heavily, sequestered into little pockets if they are interested in being adults, and told what we can and can't see, do, participate in, etc., unless we are shuttled away from the main grid, lest someone *cough cough* might get offended at seeing adult things. Hmmm - adults - we have the choice to get away from that which offends us. Why do we need this - remind me - are we not adults with minds and the ability to think?

And, as Minx has pointed out - the advertising for businesses such as her would be put in jeopardy due to word filters due to the name of the store, which to me would be wrong beyond belief. And, yes, educational purposes within SL would also be hampered due to the filtering out of certain words when dealing with health issues, help groups regarding health and other personal issues, etc.

There is no sure and practical way to do age verification in the internet, this is a very major political and technical issue. In my opionion there is only one answer: namely that Children have no business on the Internet without parental supervision, its as simple as that!

In the last 6 Months there has been an exodus of some very excellent Sims out of SL, they have just simply disappeared, and not comeback. The now proposed changes will accelerate this movement, people will get fedup with too much content regulation and general repression and censorship. And there are alternatives.

The more i think about this the more absolutely INSANE this is...

Music, museums, performances of every sort, plays, shops, long-distance relationships and marriages.. god.. I N S A N E!!! They can't even manage current Abuse Reports... and put a word filter in my viewer?? Do that -- censor MY words -- and you can kiss this sweet butt goodbye!!

Set-up Lindens "Bibleland" on it's own continent!! Let all 89 residents that are concerned with the 'adult' content move there!!

Another vote for an "adult-free" continent!!

And what happens to the user experience?? all the avs, all the LAG concentrated in one area of the grid?? What happens to EVERYONE's experience...??????? The grid can't handle the current traffic levels. OMG!! INSANE. Truly, unequivocally INSANE!! We are hearing the death knell of SL friends.

When I first arrived in SL I was shocked and dismayed by the discovery of BDSM, the obvious Sexual nature of a lot of the content and most defiantly by the concept of slavery, I am African, to me it was a nightmare. But I explored, I met people, I listened. I found a diversity of cultures, of beliefs of sexual tolerance. A world where we were separated only by Time, not by Borders, Colour, Creed or Sexual Preference. I stayed and I loved it.

In the real world I grew up in a country with forced removals where different groups were allocated separate land, pass laws to verify your status, of censorship in media and in speech. In short the 3 points Jeska highlights above. We had a name for it:

'Apartheid — meaning separateness in Dutch (which is cognate to the English apart and -hood) — was a system of legal segregation enforced by the government in South Africa between 1948 and 1994. The vestiges of apartheid still shape South African politics and society.'

I now have to live with the aftermath of Apartheid and it is not nice, our society is so fragmented, groups are still suspicious of each other, cultures keep to themselves. Everything is the opposite of what drew me so deeply into SL.

If LL are hell bent on enforcing "the crime of apartheid" onto the virtual world of SL, then they are bound to repeat history and as a social experiment Second Life has failed.

These proposals will not affect me in any way, they may effect some of my friends, but they will effect a lot of people initially and all of us in the end.

I lived with and fought against Apartheid all my life, do I now have to repeat that in my Virtual world?

Aye. Well put.

Yep the seperation of races in Africa really has a lot to do with seperating Residential from Commercial land.
Yeah, blame Apartheid for councils and government building houses, factories and shops in separateness. All so we can't have the privledge of having a Brothel as one neighbour and a chemical factory on the other side.
Blame Apartheid fpr keeping minors and people without money from RL Stripclubs and Bondage hangouts............

It also helps to report the relevant threads as well just in case a Linden is watching, its a shame sometimes when a reasonable discussion cannot be conducted because of those with personal agendas keep trying to waylay the thread and now back on topic lol

I think we can shout all we want to LL has proven in the past that once it has decided something, it throws it into the customers arena so we can moan and groan about it and then they do it anyways.

I feel personally as an adult space owner that they will not change their mind so imho maybe its better to work towards a solution with them and see what happens as the months roll on. I am totally against this move in everyway, however LL owns SL and we have to abide by the rules they decide and base line is to me that if we don't like it we can uninstall the program and leave or comply with them.

For now i would rather work with them rather than against them as it is going to happen and be ready no doubt for more surprises as this year progresses.

In Second Life, I've encountered things I've found offensive; for the nonce, let's assume that it's a valid goal to make the Second Life experience more predictable. But echoing others in this thread:

Where does offensive content appear?

At least in my case, *invariably*, the offensive content was a clear ToS violation, created by a griefer. Junk like goatse particles on sandbox sims or racial slurs at Welcome Areas.

Never once have I been offended by anything rezzed by a landowner on his or her own larger-than-512sq.m. parcel. Oh, I've seen harassing extortion prims on adfarm parcels, sure, and ugly builds, but never anything on a non-adfarm parcel that I thought was too sexually explicit, drug-oriented, nor violent.

It's certainly possible that those with more delicate sensibilities are offended more easily, and have a different experience. But those people would *surely* be offended by the content that I found offensive--and this change puts nothing new in place to address those much more serious problems with offensive content.

How will these changes help the problem?

There could be a theory that by moving the more explicit landowner-managed content into a separate area, the predictability of what remains will improve. The idea, I guess, would be that those interested in that content will just gravitate to that part of the grid, and won't inject inappropriate content in the PG and M areas.

That, however, is just obviously incorrect. The target of offensive content griefers is and will remain the *most* general audience--the ones who are *most* likely to be the *most* offended. If anything, this will increase their motivation to target Welcome Areas, public meetings on PG land, corporate and non-profit estates, Showcase builds, etc., because their griefing content will be sure to be maximally offensive to residents there, after the Adult content has been partitioned-off.

That is, this may well make the real problem much, much worse.

Why did this proposed change appear a good idea?

It's pretty implausible that somebody from G-Team stepped up one day and said "For us to better enforce the Community Standards, we really should segregate all the Adult content." But the idea came up somewhere, sometime, for some reason. Why?

God knows I've been in enough RL meetings where a decision is made for reasons quite unrelated to the original, brainstorming rationale, and sometimes that rationale remains the public explanation for the decision. This change presents all sorts of possibilities for participants to interject "Oh, and this would also..." ideas, ranging from selling more Mainland, helping PR, simplifying eventual Teen Grid merger, etc., etc.

I think it's time now to unveil the other benefits that are expected from this change. Because it's quite clear that it will have no positive--and very likely a negative--impact on the problem presented publicly as its motivation.

LL should have segregated content properly from Day 1 or at least in the first year. Because of this we have people building megaprim walls between PG and Mature sims because they are mixed together, they've had ample opportunities to make new continents all mature , but haven't, they have to make the change sooner or later to merge grids, and they will sooner or later do that. So might as well get it all over and done with now rather than wait till the grid is 4 times larger and upsets way more people.