Upcoming Changes for Adult Content: Answers to Questions

I know you said it's the next best thing - I disagree. For me it's pointless and intrusive. Not to mention Aristotle has serious flaws and risks - to the ones in its list. LL has obviously decided it's good for the corp. And btw what's a precaution for when everyone in SL is legally promised to be adult?



Psst...they don't need any encouragement! Lol.

About NPIOF accounts - that does not mean they do not spend money in SL, quite the opposite...a lot of people outfit alts from head to toe in the best and even buy duplicate wardrobes, rent land, etc. with each. Sure any system will have abusers within it i.e. numerous free accounts that three years later are still Ruth or equivalent, a newbie av in newbie clothes, not having spent a dime in SL...But there are other ways to deal with that if necessary (and I think in this day/age the servers should be able to handle it all anyway?).

Next time you see a really awesome av check out their profile. PIOF? NPIOF? Do a little informal survey if you wish. I see a lot of expensive avs that are NPIOF. (They can also shop on SLX as well as 'work for' the main, PIOF account.)

LL grandfathering in alts whose rez date is prior to the change going into effect, and letting them attach to a main acct. with no penalty at a 'fatpack' price, would be a bit of sugar to help the Ursula pill go down. But that idea seems to be ignored. Should be an easier way to attach alts to the main, at the very least, and without penalty.

Blondin - What about Tombstone? Will it have to move to Ursula?

It has two bordellos, since it is a realistic old West sim.

It is also a virtual town with a real community feeling including sheriff's office, grocery, school, etc. Its mall is mostly clothing/guns. Where would a roleplay sim like that fall in the new guidelines?

Defining the boundary between adult and non-adult is fairly straightforward. It's how the PG and Mature regions are distinguished now. Defining a difference between mature and adult, however, is an exercise in futility, because traditional usage of the terms make them synonymous of one another.

No - it was an outrageous and utterly ridiculous ruling by a narrow-minded conservative magistrate which was later upheld by a supreme court judge. It's extremely troubling to large sections of the community here, including not only civil libertarians and legal professionals, but many very 'ordinary' people who, in the normal course of events, would not have anything to do with any kind of pornography, let alone child pornography. Many of those same people feel truly sorry for the poor guy who was convicted, because those images are so widely and easily available that a lot of people would have come across them.

You can read some of the news coverage here (sorry, url linking doesn't work for me):

http://news.smh.com.au/national/simpsons-sex-toon-is-child-porn-judge-20081208-6tnr.html
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24771973-16947,00.html[url]Naturally, it has huge implications for similar cartoon images, despite the fact that the focus in this case was on child pornography. In these increasingly conservative times, it may only be the thin edge of the wedge. I'm still stunned by this ruling.

Any link (Labeled appropriately as R or X rated/NSFW) available on the Simpson toon in question?

Without yet having seen it, though, I will say that one static cartoon like that on a PC does not equal child porn. For one thing, someone could've had their email client set to automatically download things and could've gotten it via spam or some joker sending it to them unbeknownst to them. Maybe they tried to delete but didn't know how. Etc.

Now if someone had 20,000 images of hand drawn images of kids in such situations, that's disturbing, and should be looked at very closely. And that's just the other extreme. Anything between should indeed be judged on a case by case basis. But think about it. Someone collecting images of children such as that - why? For what purpose?

I'm of the mind that animated depictions of pedophilia is NOT okay, and I'm with the German law on that. (Who would ever need such animations?) But even I would question that ruling regarding one Simpson toon on one computer. Question it, though...I'd have to review all the facts and know how ugly the toon was before I could truly judge it. For instance does it fall under the category of parody. Or is it truly intended or aimed toward gratifying a pedophile. Is the court trying to discern where it came from?

Newspapers could've slanted it or the judge could've overreacted, hard to say.

You might also like to read one piece of commentary on the case on the website of our very own and fabulous public broadcasting company:

http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/stories/s2447465.htm[url]It also touches on a YouTube case currently in the courts and the Federal Government's proposal to filter the Internet, in spite of a mountain of industry advice that what they're attempting to do is unachievable.

Already behind the eight-ball in many ways, the previous government made an enormous attempt to return us to the 1950s. Sadly, the current government, while welcomed in very many ways by the majority, has a prudish and censorial bent which is causing great concern.

Sorry I not make own view clear. I agree with LL that PIU is a reasonable precaution. Meaning that some organisation other than LL validated the PIU info I have supplied. I have another account somewhere held by another company (bank creditcard company, etc) that has the same details attached to it. Account Verification like what Aristotle profess to do is nonsense. All they can do is match data. And so can my bank or credit company or neteller where I also have an account. This doesnt verify that I exist for real but it is does validate my presence elsewhere. A presence that I am paying for.



Absolutely. We should be able to link any avatar account we may create to our main and all our accounts should reflect the same status when we do.

To the Blue Crew, apparently, AO stands for Adult-Oriented. To the *rest* of the SL world, AO stands for Animation Override(rs).

To knott on this but pointing on LL:

That reminds me again on two retro-examples by NY and UK: The french author and painter of books for children (since new or not so new he makes also sweet kiddie books) the international well known artist Tomi Ungerer was in the 60's kind of star in the New York High Society scene (as young man) until he started to have a deep inside look into their being bigot. Behind the masks he found so much cynism and violence and kind of unconsent sexual behavior, that he made some SM - like looking but in its meaning highly overdriven and satiric and ironical drawings. Over night he was world famous for that, his work was shown everywhere and wild discussed and mostly adored and by rational brains seen with a smile - somehow until our days - but: the New York high society was near to kill him -not only metaphorical - he left New York then soon - funny is: he said with no words that he drawed the scene...they knowed it, hahahaha. It was like a mirror.

In UK his works were offical and by law forbidden at the same time. Strict censored. No way, even not for adults, to get his work (i.e. as art-books) It was blacklisted and is that maybe today too or again.

In Germany or Austria everyone can buy it, no age restriction, in every book store or via Amazon, whatever.

Here we are again: artwork like this (and what is not artwork ingame - all is self-developed, nothing is given, it needed creation in any meaning) and sure it is cartoon, doesn't matter if 2D or 3D - and animated it is kind of scenic installation/art happening, sit in or how we like to call it - and remote controlled by the creators or their customers - it is an artistic self-experiment (from my view)and is now again under pressure from 2 sides: in UK by law so far I followed this part of postings, and at the Lab by other interests. The most pressure is on creations wich are common in San Franciscos real life-scenes and at the same time very embedded in UK's private lifes, as kind of hidden tradition,known as the english style of BDSM for example.

The actual situation is perfect to set SL-players in kind of Tomi Ungerer status. So seen, we are in best company, not only with him, but with all artists and many expressions. I could also name an artist like Jan Saudek and his wife (colorful and very decent, no sexin the meaning, but too adult for freaks like the Lab managment) and some alternative art with more explicite lifestyles interpreting.

It is not so, that what B. Linden called "review" would be made by professionals from art and design Universities (they would have a good laugh and nothing more) but by amateurs.

This hits again my most sensible nerv: the last time creations of all sorts were "reviewed" and then hidden and discriminated and outsourced from whatever - we had in 1933 - 1945 were artists were brought in camps and the artwork was called "degenerated art" - and the similar censorship in the Stalin, or Mao era.

One can now argue, that we talk about artists with a name, while SL-Player are only, well, average idiots. But this is not true. Because of the time: the globe is getting a second atmosphere: the information sphere. Informations running in lightspeed around the globe. Everyone is in our days media a persona, receiver and sender in one. Everyone is today sender and artist and not only receiver of foreign or made by others impressions, but also at the same time creator of impressions. Even this forum makes us to senders of whatever. Or Twitter, YouTube, a blog, a website. A handy shot of a tsunami-wave makes us to journalists, a primcreation makes us to artists, a texture made in photoshop makes us to artists, a thing like SL is a huge vernissage, an orgy in sl is nothing than an artificial parody orgy designed like an annual happening at Folsom Street San Francisco. But artificial ironized and kind of parody of anything, - LL told they would not censoring art. But they do! They do censoring millions of artists (while these are paying for the tools, to be artist and a self-installation and happening in a virtual museum...)

Viewer have 3 ways to avoid impressions(sarcasm): wrapping a towel around the screen, going to kitchen and creating a sandwich and be quiet, or moving the flat screen 180 degrees wich results in a new funny picture or to hit the x-button at the upper right zone of the screen-desktop. And if they are not too stupid, helps a teleport. Talking about screen-desktop: even that isn't real. Must be complex to close eyes or to stare at the wall, if something too surprising appears on a screen. Or one can just turn around on his seat. Damn. Screen is 19" or 17" - it should be possible to look elsewhere in ones own much bigger living room, lol.

However: this farce here is not longer interesting for ingame or customer or whatever reasons, like land, money, game, fun, etc. For my self it is now interesting, how people will react along the farce, what the Lab will do when all farce starts to be effective and how the path until start will be developed by LL and the customers. Alone this small sentence from yesterday, that LL will "review" (lol) places to decide if they are qualified for being moved to the "adult continent" is wonderful humor and demasking in one. I will stay on my point of view, that it is totalitarism as its best. Some avagerage dumb noses running around making perfect censorship. Amateurs wich created the tech-brushes and the virtual canvas, so to speak - running around now and playing censor on the art wich was created with the tools.

This is all so extraordinaire stupid and funny in one and ever when this Linden or any so called Linden appears, with a self-confidence like they were the Washington Monument/Obeliske and talking like an expert of creations and design of all sorts - driven by an extraordinaire big mouthed management, then I die laughing daily several times. But we are in good company as said: like sowjet authors wich were moved to sibirias Gulag, or beaten to death in Chinas Mao times or being censored and punished in the "Deutsches Reich" - it makes for me no difference. A crowd may yell: "hey stupid Wynochee, it is all only business, don't care!." But I do care or note... It is totalitarism, no matter who starts it, no matter how "soft" or how "hard" it is. Ever and everyhwere in small or big relationships, when one side starts to create one sided rules and holding them strict against all critic and arguments, is fascism at work. Left fascism, right fascism or biz fascism, it is in any case fascism. Because fascism has ever to do with contemeliousness. As principe. Ever made by weak and ridiculous characters and based on self-developed justification of practice.

In game was all consense/consensual. We created, designed, installed and moved all in peace, so to speak. No trouble and a diverse but kind of self-disciplined community. Beside some griefers, (rare), was respect, tolerance or even ignorance the main stream.

But we had no war and no anger and no sadness and no fears in game. It was a peaceful scenery where all could exist side by side.

Now we have aggressors in game, they have no respect. Griefing by censoring. LL.

This to watch will be my new hobby here. Kind of sociological and philosophical hobby.

The whole year promises to be interesting - not only the real life year - the SL year too, hahahaha.

Like watching a Milgram-experiment from a satellite-position.

To see how that ends as another stupid example of Man's hybris for nothing. I think the herd will follow them, while and after a very chaotic and irritating time/phase in summer and autumn - with that face but at least following them. I not. I smile Nothing new under the sun. Where no serious negotiations are possible, no compromises are wished, where isolation is the stable target without exceptions, is fascism the case and about fascism one can only laugh.

The only thing wich makes me scratching my head, is that Bush is away. Intelligence is back there. A smile is back. Tolerance is back. The couple there, the Obama's are kind of sexy, aren't they? So much good impressions so far and good work. Positive ambience and mood. Optimism. And LL goes retro while that? Crazy! Seems LL has not noticed the signs of the time. McCarthy - MCarthysm is dead folks, look at Obama! He acts as worldwide integrator not as divider. Even to Iran he reaches his hands and offers a base for living together on this planet. LL could learn from him. Could? Hahahaha. No, can not! Too sub-educated and underleveled.

But we know: they like to sell the product boxed to third partys as kind of franchise-system. Polished. Denaturalized. Like pasteurized milk! New Target Groups. For doing that, is a bit fascism ok for them. Characterless. For creative and playful people IS the game dead, gone, empty. Watching the blog, we see there a daily bombardment of hyped "solution-providers" entries. (Only for us they provide no solution, hahahahahaha, too funny. Ouch my belly, hahahahaha) They are since the beginning in game - no one disturbed them, they disturbed no one, all was perfect, civilized and colorful in one. But now this scene is pushed and hyped. While other scenes are discriminated. This is logical the end of good neighborship and creativity as diversity. But same in rl: the free citizen is now reformatted into and object of observation and mistrust, by own governments - as the example UK shows, but also the whole EU goes that way, even Austria, Germany, etc. and the other big control-freaks we know too. Fingerprints, rfid-chips in passports, biometric-datas, mail and phone observation/datastorage of connection-datas over a year or longer in all countries - and so on. A change of freedom into so called security will ever end in fascism and abuse of power, even against the own citizens. No exception.

Bah. BS.

I lean now back, watching things.

Thanks for posting that and there is me thinking the UK Government is anally retentive, just shows you what happens when people want to get all PC. Thank god for Hollands relaxed attitude in so many areas

You might think that, Clarissa, and so might I, but if the magistrate overreacted, then so did the supreme court judge.

If you read the articles, you'll see that these were 2D cartoons, not animated, and if you feel inclined to do a quick net search (which might be tricky for you in Germany, I know), you'll find that they're readily available - along with similar cartoons of The Incredibles, The Flintstones, etc., etc. They are clearly parody, to my mind - but there you have the perennial nub of the problem: one person's parody is another's pornography.

Now at the moment, the ruling presents no direct threat to us and our playmates in SL because its focus was strictly on child pornography. However, should that ever change, it opens up a whole barrel of worms, because:

"He [the judge] upheld the magistrate's conclusion that the figures in the cartoons were depictions of persons within the meaning of the definitions in the laws." (Sydney Morning Herald 8 Dec 200

And I was so sure I was only so many pixels...

You're welcome Having been in the Netherlands for a while last year, I could wish for their relaxed attitude to very many things!

What a great article It makes me wonder when/if the Aus Government starts filtering content that all our Aus players will suddenly find themselves IP blocked from SL. What a sad time for the Australian. people in so many ways with the Government wanting to tell you what you can and can't look at. What next, Films, books, TV on a larger scale.

Aaaaah, Holland..., I was often there while I was grown up in germany. Hehehehe, I was there for reasons I think you know them, hahaha

Yes, very relaxed In all meanings and a big sense of humor. Why oh why is SL not made by dutch people? Or french? Or scandinavian? I would expect them to better communicate and thinking about such decisions, or even that they would avoid such decisions per se.

I couldn't agree more. The Attorney-General in the previous Government even tried his hand at a little book censorship - he was unsuccessful, thank goodness. That's the dichotomy in this country (a country I love, I have to say, despite not being born here) - extraodinary freedom of expression, generally speaking, and a relaxed, freewheeling attitude to life at one end of the scale, and conservative forces that would gladly throw us back into the Dark Ages at the other.

Well i can think of 2 reasons that you may have been here, The Culture and Canals lol hell you can even have a bit a of horizontal jogging in the parks in Holland at night time http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2008/mar/08031409.html not that i would at the moment as its to dam cold lol

Yeah maybe LL should transfer its OPs to a country that values peoples freedom of expression

Thanks for the link Perfect. While I am not connected to any scene, because very flexible or better to say curious and like to be surprised, I like such freedom zones everywhere on globe, wherever they appaear. At Holland/Netherlands I like the art of making decisions, ever with a smile and twinker This article is exemplaric for that. They are taking things not too serious and find ever workarounds. (/me lights one cig...) And well, fortunaly we have in Vienna here a similar thing, a nude zone, near river Danubia. It is not fenced, very big, kind of urban nature park where is place for all lifestyles, families, just relaxing, or kind of more hidden zones where people find space for any activities... , and no restrictions of age or anything. Nude skaters at the bordes of the river, barbecue, all that. And much large relaxing zones. Well and as long no one let's things left over in nature, anything goes)) Like in this park described in the article you sended. But also Australia is so easy (beside gov), some scandinavian countries, france too at the coasts. Hm. Nice day today: spring started, I am at work in my office ( or I should hahaha, customers...), sun at neck, nice air, no stress and then: Linden Lab....

...

Life can be so easy, sometimes

Interesting. Let's say the new permissions go all the way up.
I don't see this as being a big problem, because zoning of Adult content is at the sim level, or in the case of Ursula, at the continent level.

Even so, there may be some serious hazards to navigation (unlike banlines, unseen ones) on large private estates. A nonverified pilot could find herself slammed to a halt at an adult sim border.

And they had just better not try to implement access restrictions between PG and M! It would make the entire existing Mainland un-navigable.

/me jumps to her feet and applauds wildly!!!!!

LL...this is how a lot of us see SL. It *IS* a new world. And at the start, it was one with almost unlimited freedom. A "noble experiment".

Some abused that freedom to hurt others (e.g., the "banks".

Some RL pressure was brought to bear, curtailing other freedoms (gambling, sexual ageplay, imposition of VAT).

I understand that LL has offices in RL, and must sometimes bow to those external pressures.

What external pressures have been forcing your latest moves? If they are there, they are much less well defined this time. I think you are bowing to "public opinion"...an empty idol if ever there was one.

That's where we need vision and leadership again. The vision to see SL as a real world, a new country, with new opportunities for its residents...not a game or a platform or a product. The leadership to stand up and say, Our rule is...that there are no rules. We mean what we say. "Your World, Your Imagination".

So..All three criteria have to be met to qualify for a change?

1. It has to be mainland. Fair enough.
2. It has to have adult content. That can be done if really necessary
3. And the owner(s) would have to be impacted by the change. What does that mean? All owners of mainland are impacted by the change because they will no longer be able to host public adult content. Also, they will no longer be able to sell it to someone who intends to host public adult content. Although unfair and a removal of choice I suspect these are not going to be good enough reasons.

I have a solution though...

If LL could make a commitment to manage the price of adult mainland (by the release of sims) to keep it within a range of the base mature mainland price, say +or-10%.

This would ease the concerns of those fearing land gouging. Discourage land speculation on specific land types. Allow mature rated land owners a reasonable cost path to change to adult land if they choose to host adult content. If they choose not to move with the land swap.

Argent is correct that this would be a definite change from current usage. Right now, being in a group with allowed access to a sim or parcel DOES trump an age or payment verification requirement at the parcel or sim level. So for example, if "New Furball" was not yet in any groups, they would be denied access above, but if "New Furball" was admitted to the Furry Maniacs group, they WOULD have access.

For the proposed restrictions to work though, it would need to change the order in which access restrictions are checked at the sim level. Checking first for the new "Adult Content" flag, then checking groups, and if no groups or explicit access lists, there might still be a seperate explicit check for Aristotle age verification, or for payment info on file.

Ideally, the new system would, as Blondin implied by his examples, eliminate the way that unchecking "Public Access" greys out the Aristotle age verification and Payment info on file explicit checkboxes. Then his example would work completely. First the Adult Content check, then groups and access list, then explicit Aristotle age verification and Payment info on file explicit checkboxes. ALL at the SIM level. The parcel level flags would be largely irrelevant.

However, Argent is wrong on one point. At the SIM level, an age verification requirement is for access to the entire sim, at any altitude. A public access sim that requires age verification today at the SIM level will not allow a non-verified individual to teleport to that sim at all, at any altitude. Whereas a check at the parcel level does only protect to 50M above the ground.

So in Ursula and in private Adult sims that are not touching any non-adult sims, the new sim-level flags that require adult content approval, if checked first, would prohibit sim entry. As I recall, if a sim that requires the Aristotle age check is adjacent to one that does not, a non-age-verified avatar was not able to enter the sim at all from the adjoining unrestricted sim, but they *could* cam in and click on things in the age-check-required sim.

And Blondin replied when asked earlier post #1174 page 79



Bring on the land Bots as that is what will happen. what we all need is that send the BOTs home script if it is still around

Look, I explain the game to you: human creativity is spontaneous and changes within seconds. What you "review" can change by any spontaneous idea of an individual in the next second with the next creation. Any second another idea can appear. While drawing offline, being in photoshop, or while building. Art, a biz-idea, a private idea, whatever. So what will you review there? Do I review what you have under your couch,in your brain,in your wildest dreams?

If one want to go to Ursuala, to be on the safe side forever, for whatever reasons, then let them go unconditional! No need for absurd reviews from a ghetto-police. If one has an idea in head to create something soon, will you review the thoughts of people who have plans to create and to sell something "adult" pre-builded in head, designed on a paper at home at rl-desk?

A brain can switch in milliseconds between so called PG, Mature, Adult and from heaven to hell and vice versa. The thoughts are FREE and the CREATIONS too!

It is really high time, that Linden Lab stops that farce-program to come back to the ground of the civilisation! This is here not the third reich, nor maoism, nor stalinism where things were reviewed by amateurs for censoring and moving-people-to-exile reasons!

Is that logical now?! Stop to make us mad here with such a nonsense!

Another thought.. to all of you saying 'this is just cartoon sex', do you really believe people just partake in this for the artistic value, or that RL feelings never become involved?

Most, likely all of the 'cartoons' that have been tested in the courts have not been interactive to anywhere near the degree available in SL. They have not been anywhere near as social. If you cannot see the difference you have blinders on.

Have none of you been burned or left confused by SL relationships? Do you really feel that the availability of even simulated sex does not complicate matters or that anonymity does not always result in positive effects, since not everyone can leave there RL feelings at the door as easily as others?

If you get into any sort of sexual play with a minor, even though the minor lied about their age and hid behind an avatar, could you really say that your conscience would not be haunted? That the potential profits you would have lost from age screening justify any resulting harm? Harm is not always physical, and emotional harm usually runs deeper and a lot longer.

Saying its the parent's responsibility is a cop out. It is easy to point the fingers at others and say its their problem. If that society agreed on that, there would be no ministries of child services, no child protection legislation. It would be deemed the parents' responsibilities and the kids would be left solely in their care, good or bad.

The lobby to shut all adult activities down outright on the grounds of child protection is out there, strong, and getting legislation passed. The legislation gets stronger, rarely weaker, and when it is struck down they revise it and draft again. The majority of society does not care what your potential losses are any more than the majority of society worry about the losses of anyone else they object to.

Meeting them part way with age verification is a way of showing that yes this is taken seriously here, and LL is taking all reasonable precautions. Aristotle might not be the best means of age verification, but some means nees to be put in place.

And simply asking age is not enough. If kids were considered responsible enough to answer that question accurately, then they would also be considered responsible enough that the question should not be neccessary.

Well in RP situations, yes. Remember, not everyone is here to find a real romance. But even in more substantial situations, from my experience anyway, the cartoon sex isn't that important. Face it, as good as some of them are, they still leave a lot to be desired. The real emotion is in the narrative, and textual/verbal communication. You don't need to animations for that, it is a minor enhancement.

Also, again personally, I feel that equating SL "cartoon sex" to RL pornography is a stretch for any well adjusted adult. The same goes for "cartoon violence."



Of course you are correct. But the major issue with LL's current plan is....it doesn't work. It has been broken since it was launched almost 2 years ago. People have been rejected using accurate information while others have verified as Abraham Lincoln and Elvis Presley. Plus it does not accomodate a large portion of SL users overseas. This has been an issue from day 1 and LL has done nothing to fix it.