Upcoming Changes for Adult Content: Main Forum Thread

I know it doesn't help, but suddenly being treated like shit by LL doesn't feel so bad. It's nice to see it's not personal..

I am blown away by the fact that they're ignoring you, every rl blue chip that I have ever worked for would be paying you serious attention if you so much frowned..

but then we're not talking about a serious company here.

This thread is likely to be closed after this weekend, I read somewhere that they'd be taking feedback until the end of the week.

Too bad they didn't say where the feedback would be take to. I suspect it's pretty close to the bit bucket.

This round is even crazier than last time.. :\

yea, that'd be funny, w'd have millions of pages in hours

Re your suggestion of classifying cartoon death as "Adult", am I to assume that you mean all the combat sims and combat games should be moved to the Adult continent?

No, he didn't say that. What we are saying here is that Jack says "only extreme content is affected"...but what Blondin says is that "all overtly sexual content is affected", and he has cited strip clubs as an example of such an "overtly sexual" theme.

The original definitions posted, then taken down by LL would seem to support Blondins' interpretation.

Second Life. Your world. Your imagination.

Well, with the current rulebook and all the restrictions and ideas going on with piling all the adult stuff on one big heap, I wonder if that motto is still feasable.

Really Linden Lab, is this what you want to do? It's supposed to be OUR IMAGINATION. Helloooo? Can you IMAGINE losing a lot of customers?

While some sims are absolute lagpits LL still insists in making even more rules. I can't help but wonder if it isn't becoming THEIR imagination now.

Have any of the "puritans" been posting in this thread? It is impossible to read them all, but has anyone noticed anyone with a puritan bent telling everyone off here? I have read hundreds of posts in this thread, and yet I have not seen one so-called puritan post. Are the Lindens reading this? Will the Lindens note the puritan absence? Does anyone, including the Lindens really care what happens?

Dear Lindens,

Re #4 -- I'm very sorry to say this, but SL has had a "Verification" system active inworld since last year, and it hasn't been working well enough to apply to any large inworld change. Many people report trying to Verify and their attempts failing, many people live in countries where they cannot Verify for legal reasons or safety reasons...

So that leads us back to #2... if, after all this time, SL has not been able to get a Verification system working properly, then a huge percentage of users will be locked out of the Adult continent -- therefore you cannot promise #2's "ensure that Residents can choose what they want to see, purchase and experience." Many residents will be unable to access what they want to access.

Thank you for your attention.

I think we have 1, that's about it. but I higly doubt anyone is paying attention but the vocalists against it like a moth in front of a flame.

Couldbe;

It's made even more ironic by statements made by mister Kingdon during his tenure at Organic. Something to the effect of the time to respond in sensitive PR situations being "NOW". As opposed to letting the whole mess sit, spin, and tangle. Then it becomes a Gordian knot solution, and nobody likes those when they happen to -be- the knot.

Well worth a read is the PDF below... from the Ministry of Justice (lol, it is starting to sound like the film 'Brazil' - came into force on 26th January 2009).

Further information on the new offence of Possession of Extreme Pornographic Images - Understanding Sections 63 - 67 of the Criminal Justice and Immigration Act 2008:

http://www.justice.gov.uk/docs/extreme-pornographic-images.pdf

The Criminal Justice and immigration Act 2008 introduces a new offence, in England, Wales and Northern Ireland of the possession of extreme pornographic images.

As well as providing information about the offence, this document is intended to answer some of the more frequently asked questions about the offence. It should be read in conjunction with the Explanatory Notes on the Act published on the Office of the Public Sector Information (OPSI) website.


One key thing though, to note from the further information FAQs is:
Q. "I have heard that the new legislation is aimed at the Bondage, Domination and Sado
Masochism (BDSM) community and will criminalise many millions of people. Is this
true?"

A. "No. The new legislation is not directed at any particular group and will only catch a subset of material which is already illegal to publish or distribute under the Obscene Publications Act 959 (OPA). BDSM material which is legally available under the OPA and used by the BDSM community should not be caught by the new offence."

I live in Scotland - not covered by this Act - so far, the only reference I've read (due to time) is:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/03/16/scottish_extreme/

*Later Edit - Looks like we have even more draconian attitudes (thank you Lord Sullivan):
Yes, just skim read the Scottish Bill. Well worth visiting http://www.caan.org.uk for specific information.

**Second edit: Removed my opinion that the UK feels relatively open-minded

The fact that the only OFFICIAL DEFINITION that they provided in the Maturity Ratings FAQ was MUCH more broad and all-encompassing that that "most extreme" range. If LL's official policy on this was simply "We only want to move the MOST EXTREME forms, i.e. torture, dismemberment, snuff... the really kinky, twisted stuff... to an area of it's own on the grid.", they why didn't they SAY SO by replacing the earlier definition in the Maturity Ratings FAQ with that one?

Individual Lindens have stated less drastic and draconian ranges of material. But no OFFICIAL and LL Sanctioned definition has yet been produced. Blondin and other Lindens are still saying that a "sexually themed area" or a strip club are examples of something that would have to move. Most are saying that ALL adult merchandise vendors would have to move, from the snuff simulators to the prim nipple vendors. They are sending extremely conflicting signals, and we don't know who, if ANYONE, is actualy "in charge" and making the final decisions on this issue.



There will be a NEW flag to set, hopefully at the per-sim level and not the per-Estate level. The old "Adult ID Required" parcel and sim restriction flags would necessarily be obsolete with this new system, replaced by a sim-wide flagging.

The old methods flat out did not work. I sincerely hope the new method for flagging a sim as "Adult" doesn't just boil down to "Check BOTH the 'Adult ID Verification Required' and 'Payment info required' sim level flags.". Because that would mean it would be IMPOSSIBLE to apply group or individual access lists to an "Adult" rated sim. They would be FORCED to check the "Public Access" checkbox to activate the other two checkboxes.

Mostly trolls.

I'm against the entire thing against adult work. Linden Labs, you're just trying to tighten the leash of control to the point of threatening to strangle yourselves to death. I'm pretty sure the only reason you're doing it is for public relations with teachers and businessmen, as a 'look over here at something insignificant so you can ignore our bigger problems' scapegoat.

Sims are already spread apart from mature to PG anyway, and if people of a PG zone do not like specific individuals within it, have the people who own and run it ban people locally from that sim. do not try to segregate entire categories of SL members for it.

As for age verification, that I don't mind. however, if it requires people to have a paid account constantly to be able to access and own mature items and locations, it will be one of the dumbest mistakes you've ever done. Alot of people can't afford pay accounts these days. So unless you come up with some way that's free to verify with, it's doomed to failure.


Basicly, don't try to have such a gripping hold on what members do here. you offer an open-end environment. remember that. OPEN. Do not take matters into your own hands if owners and runners of sims are too lazy to administrate their own land, nor punish the entire population cause some teacher or easily-pissed mother saw some naked sim walking around. Banning people with no prior warning is bad enough, don't make your reputation worse. and as these forums should hint... no one wants your new idea. try listning to your user base for a change

There is nothing wrong with men being women or people playing children or nekkos or spiders or glowing balls of light. Gender verification has not been on the table. Many men roleplay being women and never misuse it and arrive at a deeper understanding of the other sex. It is the intent not the role that is important. I wish all you threatened young boys would get over it. This is a play we make day to day. As long as it's polite and beautiful the roles are unimportant. Perhaps some of you are women roleplaying men. Perhaps I am a woman. Think Eddy Izard. Several movies have been made along those lines and I know several very male women who I have to look twice to figure out. Age verification is fine. I have already availed myself of LL's attempts to accomplish that.

And the best way to fight that flag is to refuse to do it. You didn't agree to it on your initial purchase; I know I will fight it tooth and nail, as will Corsi and others. By all means; Force-flag my sim or take it away. My legal counsel will chat with you about grandfathering and prior agreements shortly.

Think again and read here

The Scottish Government has recently brought forward proposals for an even more draconian law to be introduced in Scotland on extreme porn, CAAN is campaigning about it, please see here for more information. http://www.caan.org.uk/Scotland/

I know, but I actually think that LL enjoy making this kind of drama. It makes no logical sense otherwise.

Every time they do something contentious like this they always follow the same path, never even learning the basic lessons from it. Either these fabulously well educated people at LL are so stupid that they are incapable of learning or they actually see this as part of the corporate culture. I believe it is the latter.

For years I wanted to get into LL to sort out their lack of QA and testing processes because I believed that it was just a lack of knowledge and the incorrect application of their development methodology. Now I realise that it's the way they like it and now I wouldn't touch them with a barge pole. I value my reputation.

Changing this kind of culture takes more than the person at the top to wish it so. Even though M may be in the process of replacing all the senior staff, by the time it's done it will be too late as the replacements will be infected.

The only reason LL is still going and turning a profit is because they have a captive consumer market. They used to openly and publicly despise their customers for the shit they take from the company. I suppose these days we should be grateful they try to keep a lid on that, although they've never bothered to change their attitude towards us one whit.

That's my rant over. I'm now going to slope inworld and go back to being a peddler of mature smut.

It was in the part of the posts where Neptune and Blondin decided for all of us what constitutes Adult Content.

No, there have been more, specifically several that are in favor of the move, but not in favor of the way the Lab is going about it.

I'm sure they are "puritans" in the minds of those that want tolerance for what they feel and do, but offer none to those that differ with them in any way.

"doubt it's directly connected, Moon. Currently, it still feels relatively open-minded here in the UK regarding possession of legal pornography and the current LL Tos/Community Standards would cover any current issues. I guess it's matter for proportionate interpretation by other 'bodies' with powers - which is what's more worrying in the UK, specifically where agencies broaden the definitions within law when they implement policy of their own.

Well worth a read is the PDF below... from the Ministry of Justice (lol, it is starting to sound like the film 'Brazil' - came into force on 26th January 2009).

Further information on the new offence of Possession of Extreme Pornographic Images - Understanding Sections 63 - 67 of the Criminal Justice and Immigration Act 2008:

http://www.justice.gov.uk/docs/extreme-pornographic-images.pdf

The Criminal Justice and immigration Act 2008 introduces a new offence, in England, Wales and Northern Ireland of the possession of extreme pornographic images.

As well as providing information about the offence, this document is intended to answer some of the more frequently asked questions about the offence. It should be read in conjunction with the Explanatory Notes on the Act published on the Office of the Public Sector Information (OPSI) website.


One key thing though, to note from the further information FAQs is:
Q. "I have heard that the new legislation is aimed at the Bondage, Domination and Sado
Masochism (BDSM) community and will criminalise many millions of people. Is this
true?"

A. "No. The new legislation is not directed at any particular group and will only catch a subset of material which is already illegal to publish or distribute under the Obscene Publications Act 959 (OPA). BDSM material which is legally available under the OPA and used by the BDSM community should not be caught by the new offence."

I live in Scotland - not covered by this Act - so far, the only reference I've read (due to time) is:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/03/16/scottish_extreme/"

Wow so if you live in the UK just being in an extreme sex sim can get you a knock on the door in RL if you are caught there by one of the Gov. agencies patrolling the net.
I wonder too after asking this question about a year ago ni the forums wether or not the LL office in the UK can be help liable for the what is considered Illegal porn in the UK.

This is all typical of LL as you and I have both seen over the years. I noticed the year you joined is 2005... same year I joined SL under my original premium account...back when it was still version 1.5 and before the 1.7 fiasco. We know they aren't going to tell us anything concrete until it's too late for us.

One thing I have learned in SL is that nothing we, the residents, say or do matters to LL unless you are FIC. Or if you bring a lawsuit against them.

Yes, I would love to have Philip back as CEO. We (my other half and I) were always able to message him with a problem and it was taken care of immediately (or as soon as Philip got the message) whereas calling in got us hung up on and verbally abused etc with only one or two exceptions. Not to mention false ARs filed against my other half for something another resident had done and not my other half. The other resident even TOLD the Linden she had done it. In open chat!! Needless to say there are only a very few Lindens we will deal with now, if any.

For me the bottom line is this... if they are only concerned with moving extreme adult content such as the really kinky stuff like sexual torture, sexual dismemberment, snuff and that sort of thing, I will support them on that. If they are going to include such things as strip clubs then, no, I will not support them on moving such things to the same area as the extreme adult content. Do such things as strip clubs belong on mainland? In my opinion... yes and no. Yes, from a business point of view and no, from a personal choice/preference point of view. That might sound rather odd since I was at one time years ago an exotic dancer myself, but it is how I feel now. As the old saying goes... A place for everything and everything in it's place. I think the real question here is exactly what belongs where? Once LL answers that question (if they ever really do) I think the vast majority of us will find that we have worried over something that didn't even apply to us.

posted under the wrong thread

Yup, I'm in favour of the adult continent and requiring id verification or PIOF to go there, I'm not in favour at all of the forced migration and I'm not happy with the way that an island has to be flagged completely adult.