Feedback on Ad Farm Post - Part 2

I was really hoping Jack would come back by now and give us more guidance. Ah well. Until October 1, I will keep on doing what I do best...

I think there is a lot of agreement with what is acceptable by the vast majority of us.

1) Land abuse, harassment, and extortion tactics need to come to an end. Period.
2) Advertising methods need to be curtailed and regulated to minimize the negative impact on the mainland and its residents.
3) Linden Lab needs to take a more proactive role in the governance of what is basically the largest estate in Second Life.
4) The damage wrought by the past lack of governance must be reversed and positive use of mainland must be supported; supported directly, if possible.

I don't think there is anyone (other than those who have built their businesses on practices proscribed above) that I have seen in any of these threads which disagrees with any of those premises. The only things we are differing on are specifics.

I don't think LL is going to solve the totality of this problem overnight after October 1st. I think there are going to continue to be issues, and the policy, as well as those enforcing it, are going to have to be fluid and adapt to the situation as it evolves and changes.

That said, it requires hope and expectation that LL is REALLY serious about following through here. They have a HUGE amount of past laissez-faire policy baggage dogging them, and it is going to take a MASSIVE and SINCERE effort to accomplish the goals of truly "cleaning up the mainland". For me, I am not sure I have much more than the thinnest of hopes they will succeed. However, that's just the way I am preparing myself for the future. I am hedging my bets with doubt, because at this point, I would rather be pleasantly surprised, than crushingly disappointed.



I honestly cannot think that LL would deny you the right to use your rental boxes to practice your business. I certainly wouldn't support a restriction on that action, unless you were somehow using them to harass or abuse your neighbors. I am ambivalent on the 50-count limit on for sale signs, partly because I think they are redundant. However, I wouldn't have a problem with *small* unobtrusive identifying for sale signs, laid flat on the ground, on 256sqm+ parcels. It is something I can concede, though, but I am not a land seller, so it is easy for me to concede, and my concession on the matter shouldn't count significantly.

I'm an American english speaker and always curious about language. I've read every entry in here but where does this idiom come from. I haven't seen it before. I know its off topic but I like it.
Thanks

"full stop" dates back to the days of steady use of telegraph and telegrams, both related. "stop" meant "period" and "full stop" meant "end of message". certainly it's used in other forms, but essentially that is the basis.

even funnier, though, in the previous ad-farm thread, it was used annoyingly often by an obvious troll. (or, to be more specific, an alt-troll)

and before fingers start pointing again, that is simply an observation.

foolscap full stop

zero lots under 512sq m. !!!! Thers no reasonable use for lots smaller... then simply have people do a job inworld ..get a complaint simply go there ... have lindens IN world sometime not just hiding at the clique shop.

That has become a death horse, there are many reasonable uses for small lots, ranging from data gathering, rez stations (144 sqm is enough to rezz a verhicle), extra prims, landscaping etc etc., we realy need to be carefull with kneejerk reactions and blanket statements.

Corrections: I had over 300 ad plots and used them for advertising. Currently have less than 300 and not one ad on any of em. I am retaining roadside plots, but selling rest.
I also have several major plots totalling over 2 1/2 sims not including ad plots. All grown from earnings thru selling great products and diligent marketing using most methods.
And some of my ads were very pretty...1/3 of em were for our art gallery featuring RL artists by showing their work with a click to TP script.

As for Trolling? 58 posts over two threads
Argent: over 6000 posts (don't know how many threads...but a heck of a lot in these two threads)
Talarus: over 2300 posts (same - don't know how many threads...but a heck of a lot in these two threads)
Judge for yourself who trolls forums.

BTW thanks Neptune - we don't always agree, but at least you don't abuse people, and offer constructive comments

Sorry Elise you're just wrong. Try combining and splitting several plots of land to appropriate sizes without the ability to use 16msq. Especially roadside land which most of the time cuts on an angle - rendering 16 m sq an absolute necessity. Jack Linden has already pointed out this fact in the original post that lead to this forum..as below

Q. Why don’t you just disallow small parcels?
A. Whilst we might restrict parcel join/divide on new zoned areas in the future, for existing Mainland this isn’t practical. There are legitimate uses for small parcels and with such a limit in place, complex parcel shapes would be impossible to ever divide.

In America you'd say:

", period"

In the UK we say ", full stop".

In the UK we end a sentence with a full stop.

Has someone let Herbalife know their company logo is being used for internet harrasment on a mass scale without their permission?

Yes, 16m pieces are needed, but ability to carve land into 16m plots to sell is not.
If people need 3 prims to put a backup server on rent from someone or put it on a friends property.
If someone needs a 16m for spybots and avatar name farming or spamming bad luck.
If someone wantt's to put a sign up in a sim, why not pay a resident to host it, oh that's right they can't because the sign will then require itself to be profitable by non extortion methods.............................
Just imagine how bad it would be if we had 4m and 1m plots......................
Yet we survive without them somehow.

Since posting is not synonymous with trolling, it's not possible.

Oh, yeah, it's great fun trolling Scripting Tips--they're just so innocent over there.

Judge for yourself who's the dipshit.

Sorry Jubby all I meant to say you have a genuine reason to post here because this affects you, just as much if not more so than most people posting here.

I had never seen any of your adverts mate, but the earlier description given by yourself and others led me to believe they were bright orange blocks, if that was wrong then, soz again.


I am not getting involved in any trolling debate, I think most posters are here to put their points of view across, Advertisers and anti ad campaigners have had disagreements throughout both of the threads, but that's to be expected.
Even so everyone is against Adfarming and extortion, except for the few who practice it.




Thanks both you and Shimada have both put forward valid points from the Advertisers perspective, Glad to see you removed the inner Sim ads and decided to stick with roadside.
I am sure they will work well for you after 1st Oct.

Post count has nothing to do with post content. You can have someone with 10,000 posts who has zero content value in them, and others who have 10 posts of the most insightful, constructive information possible. This applies in reverse, too, though post frequency is *usually* inversely proportional with post quality, but not always.

Point is, the numbers don't mean anything. The content is what matters.

I would say calling people names, being sarcastic, and contributing nothing is trolling?

LOL! That was you? I just found that by accident in Tussock and found your name on it.

I live a few sims up the road and was roaming around to make my lil list for the Oct 1 fun.

With few days to Oct 1, there isnt much related that some1 hasn't questioned. So i guess that's why all the crap posts. However one suggestion i see that recurs is min parcel size. To answer that, READ THE BLOG! (http://blog.secondlife.com/2008/09/12/more-information-on-ad-farms-network-advertisers/)
Q. (Anon) Why don’t you just disallow small parcels?
A. (Jack Linden) Whilst we might restrict parcel join/divide on new zoned areas in the future, for existing Mainland this isn’t practical. There are legitimate uses for small parcels and with such a limit in place, complex parcel shapes would be impossible to ever divide.



Amen to that Tal.

For me, the best form of "advertising" is one of three things

1) friend's recommendation about something i ask them about or something cool they got and want to show me

2) Edit. i never think about the 'inspect' button, i just look at it through the edit mode, sometimes to catch an idea how something is made by the outlined prim structure - maybe i can learn something or get inspired by it (that's happened) but mostly i just go to the General tab and see the creator and open up their profile.. usually they advertise their own products or store location(s) FREE in their Picks. i've bought several things that way and/or guided others interested (friends or strangers) to such destinations. this used to be THE number one "advertising" for me.. though as time goes by i've become less and less of a buyer and more of a do-it-myselfer.

3) Search -> classifieds.. then pop around a few places.


I personally find in-world display advertising -- beyond moderate store signs at their location -- an eye-sore, and as far as SL is concerned, unnecessary and really ruins the in-world experience. They are too numerous.. anywhere and everywhere.

Even RL has limitations for highway billboards. For the most part, highway billboards are located only alongside major throughways within a certain perimeter of major cities. There are no billboards in parks, in smaller towns, or in waterways. There are no billboards outside the windows of residential houses away from major throughways.. there are no billboards INSIDE someone else's building without their consent (or contract)... (there's also no semi-invisible physical force field that prevents all possibility of traversing the land billboards are on, but i digress)

Such form of advertising is necessary in RL, but not really in SL. in RL, newfangled cellular/navigational/roadside-assistant gizmos 1% of the driving populace uses aside, you yourself cannot simply press a button on your car while traveling at 65 mph (or ~5 mph stop-and-go rush hour) to bring up a search menu on your windshield or helmet visor and browse classifieds. You cannot point at something in front of you and see what it's called, who owns it, who made it - then open up a profile of who made it.. or instantly message either the owner or creator to ask about it.. (THAT would be an interesting trick). Neither can you simply touch it, drag it and if allowed, create your own copy of it to bring with you. In SL we have these features.. we also aren't traveling at 65mph in most cases, nor do we experience rush-hour traffic on a Road (not counting grid problems).. but again i digress..



As such, regarding SL, i avoid doing any business, not even so much as an innocent inquery, with anything advertised on ad-towers.. "pretty" , "professional" , "non-resource-intensive" , "insert claim here)" or not.. but that's me.. and likely (just a hunch) many, many others... if it weren't, would it be such an intense, heated, and even emotional issue?

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Mind Exhausted - Terminating Thought Process

Really..so ya set up particles to zap between ad towers...wonder if anybody was annoyed by that? Wonder if some ad farmer got blamed for your particles? Perhaps Argent could let us know if he sells such a script? And if so..whats it designed for?

Geez. Look: attack me all you want. But accusing Argent and Talarus of trolling--and basing it on (of all things) their years of generous contributions to these Forums, not to mention their other respected efforts to improve the platform--that's just unacceptable. I am dead serious: you owe them a public apology.

(And there's a general lesson to be learned, too: not everyone here operates solely out of self-interest. Many do, and that's fine, but when they criticize others for acts of altruism, the critic reveals rather more about themselves than they may intend.)

The sad part is that I'm coming to realize that I'll probably have to give up on my efforts in that sim, eventually. Maybe somebody with a lower profile can have better luck. I've noticed that "my" adfarms aren't cleaning up as much as the others and the extortionists aren't dropping their prices here, so I suspect it's a grudge thing now: they'll waste one of their 50 on this patch of no-man's-land, just for revenge, and keep trying every new scam they can think of here. I'm surprised they even noticed, but... well, we'll see what happens in Q4.

Right: Simply disallowing small parcels on existing unzoned Mainland isn't going to happen, and shouldn't. But parcel size-specific restrictions on use *could* happen, or at the very least, size *will* affect interpretation of whether a use is deleterious to the Mainland--even if LL isn't aware that it's a factor in their judgments. It really is inevitable because a microparcel by its very existence in the wrong place damages its neighbors in ways that a simple 16x32m 512 just can't. (It remains to be seen if there may some day be a way for existing Mainland sims to "opt in" to zoning... but that's surely not a big priority for Concierge at this point.)

Nope, it's my script. It's rather whimsical, actually, and if anything, it attracts interest to the adtowers, so I can't imagine the advertisers would object.

They might have been more offended by my "Your $Lindens at Work" signs before I took them down, and the forklift full of toxic waste I'm dumping into the adfarm pits, but they can't actually do anything about that.

In RL areas are clearly defined, in SL mainland areas are not zoned. This is the crux of the problem, I am not allowed to put adverts in my garden in RL, I can't knock down my house and replace it with a shop either, in SL I can. There is no "Residential area" on mainland.

Ciaran, you've touched on a point there: no zoning on the mainland at present. Residential, commercial, game-play / RP-play, and mixed might be a good starting point for zoning.

Zoning could be introduced by several methods:

1) Pre-determined zoning rules set down for new mainland sims as they're brought online.
2) Some existing sims could be retroactively zoned as they are already effectively zoned.
3) Existing land owners could petition LL to zone their sim into one or another category.

I am just waiting now to see how effective the Lindens will be as estate managers

It seems to me land prices have now dropped to 3.3L/sqm, with the real world financial markets biting hard, this could force Linden Labs to make some real changes.
The low price of land, can't help the extortionists either as people can move away to new parcels very cheaply and will think even harder before buying small overpriced plots.

Many of the over sized imposing adverts have already been removed from the mainland and I am preparing to go on an little AR spree for any stragglers I find.

I also intend to go after the extortionists and see what happens, hopefully if many others do this, when the Lindens finally work through all their reports we should see a bright new world