Feedback on Ad Farm Post - Part 2

Please don't put words in people's mouths: Qie didn't say he bought the script from me.

Captains Log: Stardate 29/09/3008

"I have started entering the ships log in this thread as I think the crew are suffering from space madness, Socrates keeps staring at me asking "should we open fire on the griefers now?" drowned out by Prospero on the intercom yelling something about the Asset server, Pathfinder is raving about residents dying by the hand of the replicating bots below while M just sits looking at my chair, he want's it so bad, he might do anything..............."

Ops: Verify beam locked and ready...

Oh? And that's not an even worse eyesore? Give me a break. I just had to clean up after someone like you while cleaning up the ad farm in Chiron. What you fail to realize while only thinking about yourself, is that when you go to WAR against advertisers, ad farmers or whoever. You place everyone around you in the middle of a war zone.

You're so intolerant of advertising that you don't distinguish good from bad, you just lump us all together and blame us as if we're the same person. You're stereotyping, and in the meantime, you're making a bigger, uglier mess than a simple ad. Come October 1, your stupidity is getting ARed by me as quickly as ad violations are. You're no better than the worst extortionists.

1/ I didn't attack you.. simply pointed out that your abusive/name calling post (where you attacked me) fit all the descriptions of trolling
2/ I didn't accuse Talarus or Argent of trolling. I had been accused of trolling based on the number of posts i made..i simply pointed out that there were some who were more qualified based on the sheer number and repititious nature of their posts. And asked people to judge for them self.

Now Qie, You admit to particle spamming on ad farms,
Talurus admits members of their anti-ad group have been buying up ad parcels, putting ban/buy lines round them, placing advertising on them, selling them at hugely inflated prices (and using that to SPAM the land search), and more lousy tactics, last time i looked (a week ago) the ad zoo was still encouraging people to overbuild others properties with mega prims in clear violation of TOS - although Talarus goes to great pains to justify their actions.

What arrogance Qie to call me "dipshit", then complain I attack ?? and cry "poor me" here when i point out your hypocritical post!

What arrogance Talarus to think you are any better than some of the worse extortionists complained about in these forums - when your 'friends' use the same tactics that people loathe. And you state "some out of hundreds of members" do it? There weren't hundreds at those meetings Talarus, and I don't remember reading how you made them stop (in your public blog). Justify it all you want..but when given the clear chance to stop others using the same harassment techniques did you decide it was OK for the anti-ad group to use them? Or just couldn't be bothered speaking up?

Generous contribution??? The anti-ad group contributed well to the problem of extortion and griefing... adding to it, and waging a war across the grid where the neighbours were not given a second thought.

People can call me troll, falsely accuse me of anything they choose - but I wish that more people could discern the real problem by the abusive, hypocritical, and repetitious posts that your ilk leave in this forum.

Two more days until the 1st!!!

This feels like being in Times Square on New Years, watching the ball drop and everybody counting down...

Running around taking pictures, examining what violations apply, writing up what we will submit for tickets on the 1st if things are not fixed.

Ah! It is a plot to get us to actually *look* at those signs for once (even if it is to note how bad they are)!

Just a simple question .... to EVERYONE.

If a person decides to put a micro parcel up for sale at market value,example a 32m2 lot for L$150 and decides to stick a huge tree on it that overhangs other lots, a huge sign ( not ad related) such as "vote Obama", that you can see sim wide...

Will it fall under the new guidelines?

We have many situations like this right now. The rules always sound great but I'm curioius as to how long Linden Labs is going to to take to live up to their end of the deal and respond to Abuse Reports and I would gather, many , many more than what they currently have....???

Perhaps the falling land prices could be a reflection of RL economics, but being in the land business here I see things a little different. Just as in RL, the economy of SL is driven at times by emotion. The point I'm trying to make here is that if Linden Labs does not act in a swift manner to correct problems, address AR reports, enforce TOS, what you will see is lack of confidence in LL's ability to protect your assets, thus a sell off.

Blaccard Burks
www.RentMainLand.com

Any form of parcel encroachment is against TOS and should be removed whether its a tree an advert building etc.
I have a similar problem a building taking up half of a 512sqm plot I own I have IM'ed owner nothing happens have ARed building nothing happens, if this building has not been removed come 1st October 2008 then it will probably remain for ages, while LL fight their way through the piles of AR's.

Jack if you do come back to close this thread down some time the plot is in Mujigae Sim (52,18
Will encroachment be taken seriously after 1st October, because it needs to be a priority in managing the mainland, builds should be automatically removed if they encroach on neighboring parcels.



A final note to all the kids scraping over sensless crap, come 1st of October Dad's supposed to be coming to sort out all the problems best all users, think about that and get their individual houses in order, on both sides of the fence.

Just because an ad isn't for a business doesn't mean it's not an ad. Political advertising is no more acceptable than any other kind... remember the "Impeach Bush" guy?

These points have been addressed and refuted time and again. (Please read post # 992 for one). This post of yours JubJub fits is my definition of trolling - repeating the same inflammatory and refuted statements over and over again.

And as for neighbors of ad towers, I received many notes of thanks in numerous places from them when I blocked the view of the floating cubes (your former ones in particular). The ones not giving the neighbors a second thought were those who put up the spam towers.

As the time runs out, i would like to place my points regarding the voluntary relocation program I placed before:

1) Advantages to LL:

a) Server otimization - every SIM uses a server be it a full sim or partially used sim. By relocating people LL will organize the server placing efective people in a server, reducing the ghost land. With this procedure LL would gain two points. concentrate people who stays on line and freeing servers that can be resell.

b) Sell new land - many people like me have plots that do not cover a full tier, by enableing the users to relocate to organized areas will motivate people to increase teir land so to cover the full tier.

c) End of AR combat - LL must have to spend a lot of effort due the AR combat, by moving the people that acept to be moved LL will reduce this effort by separating the contenders.

d) Solve the ADV without having to remove anyone against will - The fact is that this people buy this plots, so to remove then is very difficult without a good reason. But in the event the guy is a extortionist, then the base of the extortion will be removed. And in the event he has a valid reason to use it, then this fact will not concern him.

e) Organize the mess: SL grow in an uncontroled fashion, what gives an enormous logistic problem to LL to mantain and control. We always ask for more control by LL on the rules they set, but how could few people control a so big world. The move of people to zoned areas will make the residents protect their areas, because they will be backed up by LL. If the area is resident only, then gamble machines and pronography will be easily saw and dispatched.

f) Remove the sense of Wasteland - as many areas deteriorate and get abandoned, this gives the new commers impression that SL is a mess that do not is worth investing in. How many people had land and abandoned it due deterioration of the SIMs. In the event the people is sure their investiment is secure will give then the assurance to keep it. This will also motivate professionals to go back using SL, since it willnot look as a place of sex, gambling and imorality.

g) PG and Mature : re urbanization will also enabel SL to organize the PG and mature areas, separating then clearly, also comercial plots can be separate in PG and Mature so you do not have to buy a clothes, homes and furniture side by side a sex shop. All genuine sellers will like it.

h) Create roads and Event areas - SL can create permanet Event areas and promote events like burning life in it. During the non event times, SL can rent if for fairs, Like in RL.
You can have a House sell event, a gardem event, an furniture event and so on. So product sellers can show their product to efetive costumers. And people will go there focused in buying and know in this focus will not be dispersed in unrelated stuff.

2) advantages to residents:

a) Get ride of cassinos, ad farms and lag clubs - need say more?

b) Maximize their tiers, have land as the tier they pay.

c) Join broke land (to increase prim count you end buying patches of uncontiguous land)

d) fell ther investiment is secure - People will be sure a sex shop, cassino or lag club will not appear side by side to his home.

e) A sense of a growing comunity, instead of wild, wild west or entropy

3) Advantage to real Sellers:

a) A clean area to sell their products without griffers and other blocking problems.

b) A focus audience mainly in the event SL (or thenselves) join business of the same type in a area. I found the other day a mall that concentrated in medieval and fantasy shops. It was very nice.

c) No clubs lagging the stores.

d) No porno or gambling taking away propective clients from their products.

e) Not much ADV need because you just have to go the the commercial area specialized in houses or furniture or clothes or skins.

f) Oriented mall areas (may have a club to atract people).

g) Event areas were to offer their products and sponsered by LL that would rent the spaces as RL fairs.

Advantage to Advertisers (the true ones):

a) Specific areas to then ADV (road sides, event areas, shopping and malls).

b) Focus people interested in buying.

c) No ARs since they are in their proper place.

d) No people blocking then.

e) Can create rent spaces for specific stiles.

How is a political ad not an ad? *puzzled*

If the plot is for sale it violates the existing policy of ads not being on plots that are for sale. That policy was meant for extortion plots of course, but it would most likely apply.

Did you actually see any of the things I made?

The sign, "Your $Lindens at Work," did not violate any terms of the policy whatsoever, even if it weren't on a quarter-sim parcel. I took it down when the policy was first announced (the "licensing" version), in hopes it would encourage the neighboring adfarmers to remove their signs. So far, that hasn't worked, and it will go back up in mid-October if this policy doesn't succeed.

And, by the way, did you ever hear me use the word "war"?

I'm willing to discuss a position I've actually ever held, or an action I've actually ever taken, or an item I've actually ever made. But perhaps you have me confused with somebody else... lumping us all together... stereotyping.

......

Attack me all you want. I have every confidence that Jack will judge for himself.

There's actually supposed to be a technical solution in the works. As I understand it, it's part of the "megaprim liberation" initiative. I have no idea where it stands on Andrew's priority queue, nor exactly how it's supposed to work (maybe the owner of the encroached-upon parcel can return any individual prim that encroaches? or the whole object?), but I don't think it completely prevents encroachment from occurring because there are cooperative builds that kind of depend on it being possible when both landowners agree.

I sure hope not. I have frequently worked on cooperative builds with my neighbors that involved builds extending over multiple parcels, each contributing part... and if we couldn't overlap our builds this kind of thing would be basically impossible.

Addressed and refuted? Hardly Rem. Talarus admitted they did use "buy access" lines- then tried to minimise it by saying out of "hundreds of members" and they weren't ban lines (completely ignoring that it is the same visual effect on neighbours, that there were less than 20 AVs at the meetings and he had no idea what the other "hundreds" were doing). He also denied extortion rates on ad plots despite one of the members clearly admitting she did, and using multiple ad plots for sale to SPAM land sales listings with anti-ad ads (another point i made he ignored).
Rem, you ignore the FACT that the members of that group placed hundreds of advertisements on hundreds of ad plots. And still justify it in these forums.

How many megaprim screens did you personally place on ad plots - blocking peoples views with trite pictures in the belief that you were helping make the scenery better?

How many megaprim screens did you hand off to others to do the same?...clearly harassing a valid and legal enterprise in SL.
You harassed me when i pointed out the hypocricy of using ads on ad plots to tell others not to support ads on ad plots - oh that's right your pictures were 'better' than my pictures??? You fail to see that yours were purely for harassing advertisers in many sims where you had no interest.
Answer this one question Rem... have all your megaprim blocker screens on ad plots come down yet?

As for Refute? hardly... the ad zoo still has pictures up on it's walls teaching others to harass and violate TOS.
How can you seriously ask others to work within rules and work for better of SL when you and your cronies still claim the 'right' to harass anything you don't like.
For instance Qie stating above - still gonna place his ads if the policy hasn't worked within 2 weeks? How arrogant to clearly say he is going to violate the spirit of this policy if it doesn't work to his satisfaction and his timeframe.
You all need to take a long hard look in the mirror... at your tactics, ethics, threats, and abuse.

You know, Jubjub, "he did it too" is not an argument that's going to carry much weight with anyone over the age of 8.

I have never harassed nor threatened you JubJub. If you think I have, then make it official, otherwise stop slandering me. I used megaprims only on rare occassions, and yes all my panels and signs have been down for weeks. The signs I did have in place were not advertisements, they were protest signs and informative in nature. And guess what? It looks like they worked!

See the hypocricy?
I didn't say you threatened me... to imply so and then claim i slander you? (by the way its called libel when posted in a forum like this) and yes i found your megaprim blockers harassing - just as you find all advertising harassing... both of us did the same thing..but i am not so hypocritical as to claim moral high ground and yours was deliberate harassment purely for the sake of it.
Rare occassions? what is your definition of rare? tens? hundreds?
Protest signs and informative? And thats not advertising your opinion?
How many on ads on ad plots did you have out Rem? Do you even know?
You state your signs are down - Have you been around and asked all the people you handed signs and blockers to - to take them down too?

You claim your signs worked? - yet advertising on ad plots is still allowed. The Lindens seek to minimize their impact.. and that includes YOUR signs. YOU were part of the problem Rem, and I find the worst hypocritical aspect of it all is you know it, else your signs wouldn't have come down.

Fascinating progression, from attacking things I didn't say, to attacking things I won't do. I've already stated that my sign didn't violate any part of the policy. Is this "spirit" offended by the very idea of text on prims?

Or maybe I missed the part where only adfarmers may have a sign on their land.

And yeah, that's my timeframe. I'll venture to guess that if things haven't dramatically improved by mid-October, my sign will be the least of anybody's worries.

Well, it's the 30th today - the last day before the new rules come into effect. And Jack still hasn't posted an update. If he doesn't do it, I'll be darned annoyed because this thread will have been a complete waste of everyone's time. Even something as simple as, "We read everything and appreciate your input, but there are no changes" would be better than nothing. No post at all feels like being totally ignored - and after Jack himself asked for the discussion.

Incidentally, 8m high is pretty big, and could still be a blight on the lanscape - depending on where it placed.

I used the live chat and the overlapping parts of the build were removed very quickly, by the Lindens.

I am not aiming to prevent cooperative builds and can see them as a genuine reason for not seeking any technical solution to encroachment.

To clarify the situation further
Still most most examples of encroachment are just examples of either direct harassment or incompetence by neighbors.
The later instance being the most likely cause, I would feel unfair to report issues like this as Harassment without some degree of proof, this is why I used the Parcel title from the abuse report menu.
However it seems parcel abuses are just not acted upon by Linden Labs, mainly because they expect neighbors to sort these issues out between themselves, but as in my case when neighbor never responds to IM's for whatever reason this still leaves the problem with no end in sight.

This is why I would like to see more action taken for parcel encroachment where no agreement has been made to allow it.

It is a severe problem to people who have only one 512sqm plot as the area is affected far more on a parcel of that size than on larger ones.
Under the current system these parcel owners will receive little or no help from LL.

This should be something addressed by Jack's statement of intent, as this can be very frustrating for small users and deters from the mainland experience, again this comes under effective estate management.

Agreed Phil

It seems unlikely we will get any change in policy now though, with action taking place starting tomorrow.
Maybe the Lindens will look at the issues users wish tackled by their estate managers.

But I don't expect to bank on that.

I am new to the forums and don't know how they normally run, surely someone closes the threads eventually though with some sort of token note, don't they?

New here too, although the previous thread on this was closed because people started fighting. I am guessing that in a few days this one will get replaced by a 'how are we doing' thread.