Feedback on Ad Farm post

Mr Termagant doesnt advertise .. he extorts

That would be, for the most part, better than you already got. The customer base may go up once the mainland looks pretty again with the ad towers gone. First impressions are lasting...

Yes Linden Labs true allegiance lies with themselves they are a business after all.
We all know that and always have.

It is a cynical view, to assume they are introducing this license idea to make money from it directly, but why shouldn't they?

The truth is that when this licensing is in place, more users are likely to stay in SL, which in turn will bring in more funds for LL, so they win anyway.

Also I will add that I would rather line the Lindens pockets, than yours and other grubby types like you.

Has anyone else noticed that Luke Termagant and Proxima Saenz /both/ use the same misspelling of "decission"?

Aha, and you are Mother Teresa???

I want to say for the record here that if all advertisers had the same ethics as Shimada does, we would not have needed to spend so much time on this issue. My first encounter with Shimada was a conversation with him after I had blocked one of his older style ads (big stacked cubes going about 30 m up). He was polite and willing to find a solution that we could both feel good about. The result was that he changed his ad to a beautiful, short monument style that has trees next to it and was not at all obtrusive to the surroundings. I shop at his stores now and support him 100%

Thanks Rem, it was a pleasure working with you on that. I learned a lot from it and have added many of those features to all my ads now.

I repeat extortion is not a right
communism is a foregone conclusion that has not baring on SL or any format relating to the here and now wake up and welcome to the 21st century

I don't know if I'd call that "total incompetence" but it sure would have been nice if the Impeach Bush guy had been impeached instead of showing the adfarmers that he'd found a safe way to scam people.

LOL You sound like a broken record robo. Remember that pretty much unanimous 'no way in ****' when you proposed it?

same way like you have mature or PG sims you can define ad or ad-free sims?

(maybe this idea is not new - haven't read all posts so far

If this actually gets rid of those exploiting and turning Mainland into a slum at the cost of everybody else, then great.

As we see by Robo's example, many are ready to change from one 16sqm eyesore to another in an effort to continue trashing the landscape for material gain.

We've had someone here blame everyone in SL for her alleged culture's exploitation, thus in her own mind she's condoned herself to trash the landscape. Every culture has a law of Karma, but I don't think her exploiting that same culture by putting spiritual imagery on her sale prims is going to save her from hers.

Mister Linden, think carefully about this, because you have people already working out loopholes which will ensure they continue doing what they are doing at the expense of everybody else - AND their gullible clients.

QUOTE=Joshua Philgarlic]Aha, and you are Mother Teresa???[/QUOTE]
Never claimed to be MT she donated her time more then I ever could.( and I do!!!). I’m a Rl and SL businessman. Call me a dreamer, I’m focusing on the day LL gets this thing moving and RL companies are begging for a presence. Maybe it will never happen, but all I have invested are lindens and some of my time. Let say you got 10k 32s in different sims. What RL company wouldn’t pay $3-500k with only $1000 a month upkeep for a permanent network in 1 of the most popular VWs. Go ahead and laugh. You think people laughed at the Sl developers way back when, and 1 million other business people as well.
You cant pay one price to have a permanent advertisement on the Super Bowl, a popular website or a magazine page.
The virtual chump change I’m making now is just to fund the future of a long term investment, maybe it pans out maybe it doesn’t. I’m playing with the houses money at this point though. As the commenter said here earlier these ads boost business as any advertising usually does. Limitations on ads per sim per company fine. But, the only thing the keeps LL somewhat ahead of the game is the SL economy, which they a slowly trying to destroy.

There are plenty of others with this realization here in Sl. We get joked on in blogs, threatened RL, griefed, whatever. Its All out of jealousy. Instead of running 50 estates so you can profit $25 each a month with the headaches grief and babysitting noobs you could make the same money off 1 region in an ad network with very little work. And long-term it could be worth 25k. Instead of LL selling you a sim and knocking off 40 percent of its value overnight, thats a good investment there LOL. I know the ads got crazy, I personally dont put more then 1-2 per sim. I’m trying different things on the land for sale by selling items to make up for tier until sales are made. But here’s one thing no one here should have one complaint about. If your neighbor has a 32 listed for $L500000 with nothing on it, don’t buy it. He’s paying tier that’s his/her prerogative. It doesn’t distort view or detract from the value of your plot. SL is based on free markets. (the market decides the price) I don’t tell you how much to charge for a build, land, widget, whatever. If I don’t like the price I try to get it down or I don’t buy...

If you neighbor listed their house for 1 million and you think its only worth $350,000, what would you do? Probably laugh at him with all the other neighbors. Until he sold it, then you would sell yours for $1,000,000 too ;' }


ROBO Marx
BDVR


BTW Esther,

NAME CALLING simply shows you lack of education or ability to bring any rational thought to this discussion, don’t embarrass yourself any further.

Hi Neighbor! You have a 32 sqm parcel next to my 38,672 sqm parcel and yes, there is nothing on your parcel, BUT, you have it for sale for L$5000 +++AND+++ for some reason, about a month ago, you came by and made it into a crater hole! It =DOES= distort the view and it =DOES= devalue my parcel. What do you want me to do? Suck up and give you L$5000 so I can have a nice view? Not!

Thanks Neighbor!

Actually, I find her kind of funny in a pathetic way. Remember that ad of the indian crying because people were littering?

Makes it all the more ironic that her xxx particle-spewing green add montrosity tower drove off my original build. An outdoorsy house designed to blend into the natural landscape (and pay homage to the 4 elements) and which looked more like a park than a house. (pics of one version at http://www.flickr.com/photos/35176807@N00/sets/72157603859039586/detail/ )

Is this satire? I can't tell.

Its the model I stick too in SL that has helped to propel my business, how’s your business doing here? I guess you didn’t advertise.
Im all for dropping F bombs, but why don’t you propose something that accelerates the business climate in Sl, and makes all the virtual tree huggers happy instead of just getting all excited! What do you feel the need to post just to have you avis name listed here. LOL We know I don’t have to say a word to get my name in this blog.

This also goes for alot of the other posters here. Instead of ranting one way or another here why don’t you propose a fix on the advertising dilemma. Your basically letting your rights slip into LL hands if you run an SL business. Its going to cost you a whole reigon tier to advertise your business with the new LICENSED ad farmers. Its like alot of other licenses in RL all it does is raise costs, whether they pay to get one or not. I guess well see, they arent going to hand that license out to any of you or myself. The fix is in! I'll continue to build my network just the same(until selling ad plots is illegal), but some of my clients running successful advertising businesses will be biasedly put out of business so insiders can take over.*** When will LL decide your business is making too much $L and decide to license that too!****

Robo

Robo

What total BS. Second Life's entrepreneurial class is busy creating, building, and selling. They are making clothing, scripting devices, building houses, developing island and mainland communities. They are building this world we choose to spend much of our time in. They are genuine free market entrepreneurs. You and your fellow adfarmers are the virtual world equivalent of protection rackets shaking down the real wealth creators. You are not building anything.

First off I dont waste my time cratering plots and I rarely level them off after people raise their property around it.(hmmm) If you wanted to buy the piece to run a sucessful advertising network, I would suspect that you would pay that much or more considering the future profit potential. Otherwise just leave it there until an advertiser does buy it.

****Better get a license first!

ROBO

Look we are here to discuss a problem.
We are not in your Spelling contest!!

I agree with Termagant though..
His ideas arent that bad.

I dont like it that Linden Lab executes a group of residents.
Why not find a solution that pleases everybody??

Like... Allow ads, BUT set maximums?

I'm sorry, but running empty auction websites and morally bankrupt virtual real estate and casino scam operations don't qualify as "businesses".



No, the word "golddigger" comes to mind, actually.



RL companies have already come.. and gone. People don't want their adspam any more than they want yours.



Oh, I am sure that there is some starry-eyed sucker business out there who can be sold a worthless bill of goods like that, but you're going to be waiting a LONG time to find them.



I am afraid the concept is too pathetic for laughter. More just slowly shake my head and walk away. It's not even in the same ballpark as someone decrying a virtual world. At least people WANT a virtual world. What was denied was that it could be done in a useful and sustainable way.



I'm afraid no one is going to see SL as an advertising venue worthy of the money put into the SuperBowl. Just isn't going to happen. Hell, if it was going to, it would have already.



Yeah, that's the problem Robo. You see people as "chumps" to line your pockets with "change". As far as the ads increasing business, I didn't see any statistics in what he said, just "sales went up", but by what percentage, compared to classifieds, affiliate network ads, Search, SLX ads, etc. Hardly a scientific analysis of their effectiveness. If I sell 100 products a month, put up 10 microparcel ads, and sales go up to 102 products a month, that's hardly above a statistical noise level.



Plenty of others who realize that SL is a perfect playground for golddiggers? Probably. You get joked on in blogs because your attitude and actions betray your true intentions and motivations, which ARE truly pathetic. I have no idea what Praetor Janus, Desmond Shang, Bart Heart, or Anshe Chung makes on their estate businesses, but I will bet my fangs that it is a HELL of a lot more than you ever have. At least their businesses are REAL businesses.

You can make the same money off of destroying other people's property values, view, and land, harassing them to the point of buying your overpriced plots? You mean that CRIME REALLY DOES PAY??? Wow! Who'da thunk it?

Robo, the adfarmer business model is OVER. DONE. FINITE. Stick a fork in it and focus on doing something constructive with your life for a change. Or don't. I really don't care one way or another. However, we're not going to let LL continue to allow you to ruin SL for the rest of us no matter how much you kick, scream, whine, complain, or try to sell yourself as "legitimate". You and the rest of the parasites out there. If that means you will end up permabanned someday, hey, no scales off my back.



Oh please. In the height of your day, before the February policy, you had one of your SLBayAuction towers on EVERY 16 in sight. In my sim alone, you had more than 10 of the damn things. Don't even TRY to whitewash your past.



Read: "I'm looking for any loophole I think I can get away with to keep business as usual."



If that "neighbor" (and I use that term loosely, as someone who has a microplot, especially one that is grossly overpriced, is NOT my "neighbor" has that plot there in a strategically awkward place for my home or business, and it serves no other purpose for being there, then that plot should be removed by the Lindens.

Neighbors don't look to extort and harass one another. It is one thing to have a REAL plot, one which has a home or business on it, one which has a REAL purpose, and price it to sell at some ridiculous price. It is a COMPLETLY different thing for someone to have a microplot, which serves no purpose other than obstruct people (via banlines and being cut out of a rectangular plot, esp as a donut hole), harass people (via exceptionally spammy adtowers), or otherwise extort people.

As an Estate Manager, I would never allow such a travesty to begin with. You misuse the land (or abuse your neighbors) like that, I would repossess your land and either give it, or sell it at market value to the neighbors to reclaim and warning you to NEVER do it again. If you did it again, you'd be banned from the estate in perpetuity.



As I pointed out above, when it comes to land with a REAL purpose, I don't care what they set their price at. However, some microplot which SPECIFICALLY has been cut and placed strategically to harass, extort, or obstruct the neighbors needs to go away, and the people who make them need to go away, too.

Proposal to the advertising dilemma: Rid the grid completely and instantly of all extortion based advertising.

Oh, and from what I have heard, definitely pertains to your "business model". The only thing you are advertising is that you are ready to suck the pleasure out of all Second Life citizens through their wallets.

There are two ways to change the behavior of the crowd, one is by punishing unwanted behavior and the other is by rewarding desired behavior.
Since LL has decided that things must change:
1. the good and bad behavior must be defined.
2. the way to accomplish the goal must be defined.

Punishing would require more or less police I guess and I don't like that. It would cost manual labor too.
Rewarding is better if it could be made automatic. If parcel owners were rewarded for not building close to property lines and not too high on the ground (sky boxes above a certain hight should be excluded), that might help.

Uhh.. we did. See the blog post for more details.



No, we're prompting LL to grip the reins on their ToS to stop harassment, abuse, and extortion by clamping down on more rackets. I PROMISE you that this move will actually INCREASE the value of my land and my business. More people = more money. Less eyesores and extortion holes = more land value. It's all in the math, Robo. Figure it out for yourself before you are marginalized by it.



Good! Outdoor advertising needs to cost money. LOTS of money. Money that SHOULD be paid to the people it spams. You want your ads next to my home or place of business, you can PAY MY TIER, thanks!



We'll see. I surely hope they don't assign you one, but then I am not too worried:



Yep.. keep farming that dodge! If LL doesn't like me making lots of money creating content and managing land, hey, they can go ahead and do it themselves; I'll know when the writing is on the wall, and be happy to move on. How about you?

Luke Termagant and many other ad-farmers like to wrap themselves in the mantle of free markets and libertarianism. Nothing could be farther from the truth. The entire ad-farm industry only exists because a series of decisions made by our in-world equivalent of a government--Linden Lab.

* Linden Lab chose to base allocation of server resources on prims rather than script usage, texture usage, etc.

* Linden Lab built a world with optional gravity, allowing for a sky full of floating ad towers.

* Linden Lab designed tier system that made it practical to own hundreds of 16m2 plots for a minimal monthly investment.

* Linden Lab decided on the minimum plot size in Second Life, and set the allocation of prims for that minimum plot size.

* Linden Lab chose to take disciplinary action against people trying to block ads from being visible from their property.

Without the specific economic and physical environment created by Linden Lab, ad-farms as we know them would be impossible. Ad-farmers exploit in structure of Second Life to exist--they are essentially subsidized by our government (Linden Lab).

They exist in the cracks in the system sucking their corporate welfare from the teat of Linden Lab. And predictably when the citizens and the government wake up and them to "get a real job", they whine. Oh, how do they whine.