I came here because SL DID NOT have voice

I can understand not wanting to be different, live there do that RL alllll the time. Everytime I go out...well nevermind. SL IS nice in that respect. There is no shame in not personally wanting voice in talk....there is shame in saying that others should not have it when not having it could cause them to be unable to participate effectively. That's like saying that one person's disability is worse then someone elses and should be catered to in a special way or that the whole world must stop to cater to this one disability and forget everyone else's wants and needs. This is a big problem in the disabled community- my disability is worse then yours and therefore I should have things that you should not. Being an advocate I see all disabilities and understand that while someone elses might be different then mine that does not mean it is not equally taxing. Everyone needs to be taken into account, you, me, and the other disabled people and those that are not disabled as well.

Personally, I don't think I'll much use voice though on occasion it might be nice to have around for a close friend or two. I'm shy many times and I have this thing about talking on the phone and talking over the internet is only one step removed and it doesn't seem worth the stress for me when I'm supposed to be having recreation. Others will probably love it and still others might find it essential. If not using voice makes me different in a bad way and ignored, then those are people that I probably don't want to be dealing with anyway- end of story. I have better things to do with my time. It's not like being different is a news flash for me, it's the way things are and I have come to accept it and have made peace with it.

Now whether the grid is ready to support voice...that's another conversation entirely, but like the individual after me....I expect there will be those who just completely miss my entire point.

And what if what people are fearing comes true as has already been witnessed by many on the beta platform and refusal to use voice gets people ignored. Does the use of voice by others not then dictate to everyone else what communication mediums they have available for use? Of course you'll say that's paranoia, but when this behavior has already been reported many times it becomes anything but. This is not a concern reserved for the deaf. There are a lot of people who have expressed no interest in moving from text who may face the same problems. How is ostracizing them all providing Equal Opportunity, and who then is trying to put their personal desires above those of the group?[/QUOTE]


I am not going to bother to address the rest of your post because my point shot completely over the top of your head apparently and I feel I'd be wasting my breath.

I did have to offer my condolances to you that apparently judging from this post that you -

1. feel that what others do dictate to you what you are going to do, like a little lemming(if a percentage of SL residents jumped off a rl bridge I suppose you would take that as the signal that you must too?)

2. Also apparantly unable to deal with the fact that people will do their own thing which might be in direct opposition to the thing you want to do, will be uninterested in others who are not sharing in doing their thing and in some situations and places you might be viewed as different. At least for you it's a choice and something you choose for yourself, on both sides of the fence (voice or no voice) there are disabled folks who don't have a choice- it's one or the other with no options. Being the same as everyone else isn't always what it's cracked up to be and being different isn't the life bending crisis some make it out to be.

Compairing the switch to voice with jumping off a bridge is a bad analogy.
I'd compair it to walking across a bridge, those who can't voice (mute/deaf) and those that don't want to will be on one side, while everyone else will walk across the bridge and communicate amoungst themselves where the texters can't hear them.

And all of them will be too god damned lazy to take the time to walk back across the bridge to include the people not using voice in the conversation.

And even if they did, there is NO WAY one or two people can transcribe the conversation in text while it happens, there's just too much, so even if one person takes the time, it won't matter, because too much is missing.

The people who can cross the bridge might get so frustrated with being unable to communicate that they will cross.

I, for one, won't use voice for 2 reasons (none of them political):

1. I don't have a mic, or headphones. Mostly because I'm technologically inept.

2. I'm EXACTLY what I say I am: A chain-smokin', beer-guzzlin', foul-mouthed, broad who doesn't know when to stfu. (as well as having a cackle for a laugh )

Your analagy is a sensible one. I can't speak for thsoe with disabilities who can't use the feature, I won't even speculate on what experiences they will. All I can say is for me, someone who chooses not to use it. I am not terribly concerned over being ostracized, i think to an extent we allow ourselves to feel that way in some circumstances, beyond the action of others. Among my friends the consensus is either choosing not to use it, or use it on occasion. Among those who may use it also is the willingness to accomodate someone who chooses not to use it. I do alot in SL on my own, most casual conversation either fizzles out or moves to IM fairly quickly. In a public place like a bar, I rarely engage in the general banter anyway, preferring IM. Sure some people will have ba experiences, it may even drive some out of SL all together, whaich will be unfortunate. But that's the way things happen, in RL or SL. But I will always be available for a text chat, some nights due to TP problems..all I can do is sit on my porch and look at the sunset, so I'm alway open to yak.Also if ou haven't , join the "Text Nation" group. It's still realatively small, but at least you will a have a little refernece list of fellow texters. Our Second Lives are going to be changed in the near future, some of those changes may be severe enough to cause me to leave, but voice chat isn't one of them.

If I had a group left.
I'll check, I'm sure there's one I can leave.

I don't need your condolences or your backpedaling really. I just need to tell you how funny it is that when someone reverses your logic, you delude yourself about having a clue what their psychological makeup and personal stance on the issue is, and then use your ill conceived conclusions to justify the metaphorical pat on the back you just gave yourself.

What is there to get about your post that wasn't received? You stated very plainly in two separate posts that anybody who feels like SL should stay the way it is, sans voice, should be ashamed of themselves. What more do I really need to hear from you? Give me an idea on when I can expect the spun version and I'll check my calendar.

Since you never asked what I personally planned to do with voice before you made assumptions about my character and motivations, how's about you just keep believing whatever it is that helps you look in the mirror and see a winner rather than a person who popped on here and started telling people they should be ashamed of themselves for doing THEIR own thing and not wanting to be forced to change? I would want nothing less for you. LMAO at your attempt to be condescending.

Alcott,

Judging from surveys in here, your wishes seem to be in the majority so i don't think you have anything to worry about.

Maybe the "There" people are younger. Probably there are lots of older players like me who just wouldn't want to spend the energy of being at some sort of giant party, when trying to work and get things done.

Dunno - but you won't catch me putting myself out there to TALK to every Tom Dick and Harry who comes along. nope nope nope. Typing I can do, and fits in well with working, so that I can be plenty social without having to exhaust myself.

Plus people with kids at home, like me, really don't want to hear a bunch of yakking. (And probably won't for another 30 years, lol.)

coco

P.S. Anyone who doesn't like it can ostracize me all they want.

Edit: I will say that it is very easy for me to say people can ostracize me all they want (and I very definitely mean that), but I would feel differently if I knew I didn't even have a choice, and could not use voice at all.

Hahahaha! You sound fun.

You should use voice for just that reason! Maybe it would drive people away from using it! lol

coco

I agree, voice we don't need. I play THERE and my finding is there really are not that many people that use voice. But those of those that do, they get very annoyed at having to type. In my case I am able to hear them, I just choose not to use voice so I have to type back to them.

What I have found to be a MAJOR issue with voice is the LAAAAAAGGGGG!! The buggy racing tracks prohibit speaking because of it. Since there is no provision to turn it off, every once in a while someone will speak, either without thinking, they couldn't read the huge sign at the entrance that says no talking, or they simply don't care. When they do I compare it to hitting a brick wall with your buggy. Things absolutely freeze for a moment, just long enough to put you in a bad alignment fot the next gate.

In my roaming around, maybe 2-5% actually use the voice features. In my opinion is simply wrong to subject everybody to the kind of lag that voice will bring to SL. I've yet to hear anyone complain about using skype to talk. So why change things. Those that want to talk can simply continue to use skype and not lag those of us who prefer to type.

My other concern is people with kids. With typed conversation it's a little easier to keep them from being exposed to some of the conversation in SL that is hardly appropriate. If that conversation is blasting out through our speakers it will be very hard indeed.

So again, let those who want voice continue to use skype and concentrate on fixing the bugs. I have one friend who may not be able to play after the next update. Each update increases her problems and she crashes more and more.

If SL starts being run on independent grids, grids not owned by Linden Lab, would there be sufficient demand to make it worthwhile to operate a voice free grid that uses a voice free client?

If you're working .. say, building .. and somebody with a headset comes along and says "hi, what are you making?" - wouldn't it be more productive to respond in voice than type? Typing forces you to let go of the editing tools and stop working.

I won't hear them so thats a moot point. Call it rude, but I respond to chat only.

You mean all those typing lessons for nothing??? So we can talk into the microphone and piss off the significant others trying to watch TV? WHO THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING TO AT THIS TIME OF NIGHT? OMG Suzie is a guy, and Jed is a chick, and that macho gorean ubar has a mickey mouse voice. You mean I can listen to the vally girls giggle and the griefers make rude jokes? Wow, I REALLY look forward to this friggin mess. Sorry non typists, no voice chattery here, but Im very good at reading typo-nese and wont hold it against you for mispelling. Wont be activating voice on this property.

I take it from your comments you don't like voice too much.

If SL starts being run on independent grids, grids not owned by Linden Lab, like the opensim folks are doing and working on improving , or on licensed versions of LL server code, do you think there would there be sufficient demand for non-voice-SL to support a voice free grid that uses a voice free client?

No, oddly.

I guess cause it is more a matter of the mind than the fingers. With typing, you can focus the mind on one thing or the other, and still get back to the other.

If I am talking on the phone, that is about all I can do, for some reason. I can't talk on the phone and also be doing something on the computer, or even scrapbooking, or anything like that. Because in an out-loud conversation, generally one or the other person is talking at all times.

So any sort of outloud conversation, I guess, pretty much takes my full attention. But I read faster than people talk (I think a lot of people do), so it is easy to manipulate prims, then look at what was said, and respond. LOTS easier than getting into an actual conversation with someone while I'm trying to do something else.

I frequently build with my friends there, and more than one. No problem with that at all, but if people were talking out loud, I just couldn't build at the same time. When you are typing, you can put in a number, do a click, read to see what they said, answer or not, do another number, etc.

Hope that makes sense.

coco

I can sympathize with the OP-- while I don't have a hearing problem, I do think that adding voice will take away some of the mystery that I've always enjoyed about this place. I can appreciate that it'll be a good thing for some people, and useful for group meetings, etc., but I agree, I don't think it'll become the norm.

I don't plan on using voice, for a variety of reasons: my computer is really noisy, I tend to be more shy when speaking, I like being able to scroll back and see what I missed; plus, I just don't think most people really need to know what my voice sounds like. When I tried it on the beta grid, I found it hard to keep track of who was speaking when I was in a crowd. And, call me a sentimental old goofball, but I think using voice tends to break the illusion that we've established here, if that makes sense. I don't want to add another layer of reality to SL, I want to keep it as separate from reality as possible.

If other people like it, that's cool, but I won't be activating it on our parcel. It'd be good if there was some easy way for others to see that some people aren't hearing them; maybe the new volume bar that shows up when you have voice activated (or not) will serve that function, I don't know.

Makes sense to me. I find myself unable to multitask while on the phone as well. I have to step away from the computer when in world to take a phone call. When my State outlawed using cell phones while driving without a hands free device, I went out and got one, and promptly threw it away after the first time I used it, finding I didn't pay anymore attention to driving with it than without.

I do not trust for a second that SL can implement voice without significant impairment to the SIMs. I would have no issue whatsoever with any feature they chose to add so long as the SIMs are at optimal performance. You cannot enter the "most popular" areas as it is without major lag. The system is not stable and consistent enough for me support this added feature, but whateva they will do what they want.

I recall using teamspeaky things during capture the flag type frag sessions in other games. Oftentimes was a convoluted mess of shouting and "what was that"s. With audio chat you're chaining me to the PC with a headset. Right now I can walk away from the keyboard in the middle of things, grab a diet coke and a smoke, come back, scroll up, and all is good. With voice, Ive missed whats been said. " WHO SAID WINTER WAS SUCH A TOOL?? IT WAS THAT FURRY CHICK WITH THE JAMES EARL JONES VOICE WASNT IT??" If you need the nuance of vocal inflections, make a phonecall and get it out of your system. In the meantime quit giving me features Im never gonna use and FIX SOMETHING.

I can! Even bought a 2nd headset (monaural) so I can hear someone talk while I watch tv too. I'm currently typing this without even watching what I type as I'm busy starring at another computer screen beside me, working on some things. I need more hands!!

And you're correct about the 'hands free' devices. Oddly thats 1 thing I cant multi-task at: driving & talking on a cell phone. Maybe cuz controlling 1 ton of metal is more important than a conversation with Mom??

I love the new voice. Technology is something you cant stop & I wouldnt want to. just like when they introduced voice to movies, I am sure there was deaf people back then that didnt like it. But technology won out. Now through technology deaf people can enjoy watching tv & movies with a closed caption on their tv. Maybe in the future technology will create a device that will transcrib immediately what people are saying in voice on screen for the deaf. I am even sure that eventually that technology will make it so people wont have to be deaf anymore they will be able to hear all. Eventually all disabilities will be a thing of the past. But until then we all need to get along & help each other. I listen to the voice & I read the typed chat. I will reply to all when needed.

I don't mind that voice is coming to SL, but plan never to use it myself. I might listen sometimes. i.e. stand-up comedians at a club, singers, business presentations for products, but use it myself, never. And the real question is, whom will it effect if I don't? My partner, my best friends and I have all talked it over, we have all opted not to go to voice. And none of us have to state our reasons to anyone else. If a complete stranger walks up and gets all pissy cause we're typing only, well, that person will stay a complete stranger. If they happen to get all pissy while on my land, my partner will get to play with one of his many gadgets and evict said person. As it is already, if we're in a crowded location and the typed chat gets inane around us, we switch to IMs. I can't see where we won't do the same when hearing the same stupid chatter in voice. I can see the reasoning for voice, but judging from the multitude of posts from people who won't use it, I don't see SL becoming so segregated.

BTW I'm usually a bit wishy-washy on things, but once I make up my mind, I am firm on a stance. So when I say I will never go to voice, that's a pretty firm statement. I have also had some training as a Sign Language Interpreter, and have had a multitude of deaf friends. Even though they couldn't hear, those who truly like them, always made it a point to make sure they were included in everything. I don't see SL being different in that respect. That being said, enjoy SL, enjoy your friends, and ignore those that ignore you, they're not worth the bother anyway.

I think it's killing the immersion. Like the issue of dudes being revealed behind female avatars. Didn't LL invision SL as a world we built from out own ideals rather than the crap that limits the real world? I think bringing in voice is bringing SL another step closer to RL, just like the tax, law, copyright laws and all that other RL stuff that somehow restricts people in SL.

I'm sure you can opt to have it off, but then again you'll be excluded from conversations with a lot of people that only have it on.

Just go to voice chat rooms, they're really annoying but you'd feel somewhat excluded if you opted out. It's especially annoying when people have screaming kids and bad music playing too loud. Aren't text chat rooms still more popular anyway? Especially for fantasy settings I would imagine..

I feel like SL is trying to be everything without being particularly good at any one thing.. other specialized voice programs like Vent will always be better anyway.