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I came here because SL DID NOT have voice

Sally Silvera
live music maniac
Join date: 17 Feb 2007
Posts: 2,325
07-21-2007 02:29
From: Johan Laurasia
because it does give them the ability to hide behind a made up persona


kinda sums it up for me really...... the implication appartently is that if you don't use voice, you must be hiding something. Nothing personal Johan, just the fact that you and others before you have said this in their posts rather too often and too casually for my taste.

From: Broken Xeno
So as a consequence, text got ignored, and I could not have a conversation with them, and these were my friends.


there ye go........ luckily i've not had that experience yet, but others in earlier posts have described the exact same thing. Shame huh.
Kascha Matova
Bus Bench Supermodel
Join date: 30 Mar 2007
Posts: 342
07-21-2007 02:49
From: Broken Xeno
Okay, so on the whole voice issue;

I've been known to frequent several Welcome Areas, specifically Violet and Wengen (Chalet Linden), mostly Violet.

Anyway, when Firstlook first dropped, and voice came to Chalet, everyone had it. Eventually it came to Violet, and everyone had it there too. And we all used it a lot. I had it mostly to speak to my girlfriend with, which I still do.

At first, everyone was using it almost exclusively. There was a point when my mic broke, and I tried to have a conversation with people who were on voice. I could hear them, but I had to type. They had the hardest time reading text and typing, and I even found myself facing that problem. So as a consequence, text got ignored, and I could not have a conversation with them, and these were my friends.

That was around when it first came out.

Now, no one even bothers with voice anymore in Violet. They are bored of it, uninterested in using it, and back to almost exclusively chatting with text again. And I've noticed this trend everywhere I go, be it other hubs, stores, clubs, wherever. Almost everyone has slipped back into just using text, or using voice very sparingly.

I think unlike a lot of games, maybe voice is just going to be something of a novelty to SL-goers. I love it, especially the private voice chat conference, I use that a lot with Mia, but other than that? Not too much. I, like most people I know, have slipped back into typing again.


Thanks for relating that sweetie. Maybe if enough people who were objective at least and even enthusiastic about voice come back with experiences like that then people will realize that those of us not looking forward to voice for these reasons are not paranoid and not whining over imagined drama.
Psychotic Writer
MEH
Join date: 17 Jul 2007
Posts: 22
07-21-2007 03:08
From: Sally Silvera
kinda sums it up for me really...... the implication appartently is that if you don't use voice, you must be hiding something. Nothing personal Johan, just the fact that you and others before you have said this in their posts rather too often and too casually for my taste.



EXACTLY! Damn. I went to Wengen the other day, and was not speaking on voice, while everyone else was, and was instantly accused of being a well known griefer hiding in an alt, simply because I would not speak. Just because I have firstlook, should I immediately be compelled to speak to people I do not know or want to talk to? Even if I do not have the firstlook, should I be forced to feel like everyone suspects me eh eh EH?!?!! D:<

It's complete garbage, is what it is. It's creating two seperate castes, people with voice, and people without. And within those caste's, you have the people who have voice, but only speak to specific people, that is to say, people they care to speak to.

So automatically any female avie without voice or refusing to speak is a guy in real life, and any male refusing to speak is probably someone everyone else knows, usually a griefer, trying to hide.

bullshit.
Broken Xeno
~Fething Alt~
Join date: 9 Mar 2007
Posts: 632
07-21-2007 03:16
From: Kascha Matova
Thanks for relating that sweetie. Maybe if enough people who were objective at least and even enthusiastic about voice come back with experiences like that then people will realize that those of us not looking forward to voice for these reasons are not paranoid and not whining over imagined drama.


I openly welcomed voice. My girlfriend and I don't live close to each other by any means, and we both love Second Life, albiet a lot less than we used to. So for us, having voice has been a fantastic tool, and has allowed us to find a sort of renewed interest in this virtual place. However, I am very concerned when my own friends can't take the time to read what I am writing. It's very difficult and annoying to attempt to converse with people when they don't even bother reading chat. And for the people who can't even hear, or do not have firstlook for whatever reason, be it personal, or medical, or simply because firstlooks tend to be buggy as hell, it can be quite annoying not being actively involved in the conversation.

And when it hits the main viewer? The people who cannot hear will always be left out. Thankfully, again, like I said, it seems the interest in voice has slipped down into just talking to significant others, or close friends, and primarily chatting with text.

From: Sally Silvera
there ye go........ luckily i've not had that experience yet, but others in earlier posts have described the exact same thing. Shame huh.


Yeah, it is a shame when your own friends can't be assed to read what you are writing :P
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Sally Silvera
live music maniac
Join date: 17 Feb 2007
Posts: 2,325
07-21-2007 03:36
From: Broken Xeno
Yeah, it is a shame when your own friends can't be assed to read what you are writing :P


Being an optimist, i kinda like to think it's not a matter of not wanting to, but rather finding it too complicated to deal with multiple forms of communications all at once :-)))
i have not and (... guess it must be fairly obvious by now ;-p ) will not be using voice (must be hiding something :-p ) but from what i've read the communications window is also huge, so perhaps that adds to the problem?
Chas Connolly
Registered User
Join date: 24 Jan 2007
Posts: 1,433
07-21-2007 03:36
I was at a pretty popular beach last night and there were German people, Spanish people, French people and the usual Brits and Yanks. All chatting like mad with each other in different languages.

And I thought: what on earth would this be like if everyone was using voice? Total chaos.

And how do you catch up with conversation when you emerge from an IM? You can't.
Plus, there was live music playing. What do you do, talk through the music?

By the way, I'm not hiding anything, beyond the fact that I find it difficult sometimes just to keep up with written chat (slow typer):)) Voice will be a nightmare.
Broken Xeno
~Fething Alt~
Join date: 9 Mar 2007
Posts: 632
07-21-2007 03:50
From: Sally Silvera
Being an optimist, i kinda like to think it's not a matter of not wanting to, but rather finding it too complicated to deal with multiple forms of communications all at once :-)))
i have not and (... guess it must be fairly obvious by now ;-p ) will not be using voice (must be hiding something :-p ) but from what i've read the communications window is also huge, so perhaps that adds to the problem?



It's been trimmed down. Honestly, it didn't bother me as much as it does some people. I hardly open history itself, and only open the comm window to IM someone. Since it's all integrated, it can get a little irritating, but I've adjusted well enough.

It's funny how easily that mentality creeps up too, that if someone isn't using voice, they must be hiding something. People forget that there are many reasons a person may choose not to use voice, not just simply to hide who they are.

From: Chas Connolly
I was at a pretty popular beach last night and there were German people, Spanish people, French people and the usual Brits and Yanks. All chatting like mad with each other in different languages.

And I thought: what on earth would this be like if everyone was using voice? Total chaos.

And how do you catch up with conversation when you emerge from an IM? You can't.
Plus, there was live music playing. What do you do, talk through the music?

By the way, I'm not hiding anything, beyond the fact that I find it difficult sometimes just to keep up with written chat (slow typer)) Voice will be a nightmare.


It is. In Violet we'd have about 20 people all on voice at once, and all speaking at the same time. It's very frustrating when you want to say something, and tons of people are coming at you. On top of that, you have the background noises, because most people simply turn it on and leave it on, so you hear them breathing, or hear whatever is going on in the background. Very annoying.
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Monalisa Robbiani
Registered User
Join date: 9 Jul 2007
Posts: 861
07-21-2007 06:59
Let's hope.. pray! ... that voice will be just a silly gimmick that will wear out and disappear. Even if it's ok for you to talk to complete strangers all the hassle with a mic is so uncomfortable that ppl will hopefully get over it very soon. Besides, when I'm on SL I usually listen to music, either to the site's stream or to my own. The sound spammers with their screams, movie quotes etc. are annoying enough, I don't need people to shout around.
Brenda Connolly
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Join date: 10 Jan 2007
Posts: 25,000
07-21-2007 08:02
It is the thought that all non voicers are in the 2 "Hiding" categories, and all the other reasons are deemed excuses by many is what is disturbing. "If" someone is using SL as a Fantasy RP, playing a gender or form not their own, who are any of us to destroy that? That is awfully cruel in my opinion, not at all what Uncle Phil meant SL to be. But then again he didn't mean it to be the greed ridden Cororate Wasteland it appears headed toward either. A thumbs up to Todd, if more had his attitude towards non voicers I think the panic would be less.
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Psychotic Writer
MEH
Join date: 17 Jul 2007
Posts: 22
07-22-2007 05:34
Honestly, I only got the firstlook so I could hear what people were saying, not participate. If you aren't Manic, I don't want to talk to you, so to speak. I just want to hear cuz people are shit talkers.

Anyway, it's annoying when people accuse you of hiding something. Total BS. Voice is awesome in it's own right, but people need to get over their prejudices, and remember that it wasn't too long ago when Second Life didn't have it at all.
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Blah Allen
Registered User
Join date: 6 Apr 2007
Posts: 24
07-28-2007 11:20
I was born hearing impaired,I was able to have a operation to restore a very small amount of hearing in my left ear.I can hear some music and DJs speak but never put on my head phones unless I am working at my SL job.I have never had a hard time in SL,99% of the large clubs and attractions have voice turned off.Do not worry to much about it ,89% of the females in SL are males who will tell you they have no mic or will come up with a reason not to speak,Lots of typing will still be used.
Savannah Christensen
playing EQ instead
Join date: 4 Jan 2006
Posts: 64
07-28-2007 11:54
From: Blah Allen
89% of the females in SL are males who will tell you they have no mic or will come up with a reason not to speak,Lots of typing will still be used.



Honestly, I do not mind at all what assumptions people may make in regards to my sex due to my lack of desire to use voice features in SL. I dont have a microphone, I have no need for one, and will not obtain one - unless of course I ever do decide to DJ again in SL.

I have a family... a husband and children and I will not drown out my real life with a set of headphones... nor will I force them to suffer by listening to other people in a video game, who far too often dont know how to conduct themselves in a decent way. SL is a game to me, if I wanted to hear people speaking I would call a friend, or go someplace where I can punch someone in the face if they have the gull to ask me if I want to go have sex with them.

I dont want to hear anyone else other than the occasional DJ at an event I attend, and just because I choose not to utilize this feature doesnt mean that Im "hiding" anything at all... but like I said, if it causes people to believe so then I really could give a damn.

There is a huge problem with some people in the community who do not understand that SL is a game, they live-breathe SL as if it were RL and have lost all ability to seperate the two. This feature is just going to make that worse.
Jannae Karas
Just Looking
Join date: 10 Mar 2007
Posts: 1,516
07-28-2007 12:06
From: Savannah Christensen
Honestly, I do not mind at all what assumptions people may make in regards to my sex due to my lack of desire to use voice features in SL. I dont have a microphone, I have no need for one, and will not obtain one - unless of course I ever do decide to DJ again in SL.

I have a family... a husband and children and I will not drown out my real life with a set of headphones... nor will I force them to suffer by listening to other people in a video game, who far too often dont know how to conduct themselves in a decent way. SL is a game to me, if I wanted to hear people speaking I would call a friend, or go someplace where I can punch someone in the face if they have the gull to ask me if I want to go have sex with them.

I dont want to hear anyone else other than the occasional DJ at an event I attend, and just because I choose not to utilize this feature doesnt mean that Im "hiding" anything at all... but like I said, if it causes people to believe so then I really could give a damn.

There is a huge problem with some people in the community who do not understand that SL is a game, they live-breathe SL as if it were RL and have lost all ability to seperate the two. This feature is just going to make that worse.


My sentiments exactly.
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Colette Meiji
Registered User
Join date: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 15,556
07-28-2007 13:48
From: Blah Allen
I was born hearing impaired,I was able to have a operation to restore a very small amount of hearing in my left ear.I can hear some music and DJs speak but never put on my head phones unless I am working at my SL job.I have never had a hard time in SL,99% of the large clubs and attractions have voice turned off.Do not worry to much about it ,89% of the females in SL are males who will tell you they have no mic or will come up with a reason not to speak,Lots of typing will still be used.


Nothing like made up statistics and stereotypes to help a discussion out.
Colette Meiji
Registered User
Join date: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 15,556
07-28-2007 13:53
From: Savannah Christensen

There is a huge problem with some people in the community who do not understand that SL is a game, they live-breathe SL as if it were RL and have lost all ability to seperate the two. This feature is just going to make that worse.


This is definitely a large part of the problem.

Some people have proven this attitude definitely exists merely by the things they have said on the threads about this topic.
Monalisa Robbiani
Registered User
Join date: 9 Jul 2007
Posts: 861
07-28-2007 16:32
From: Blah Allen
89% of the females in SL are males who will tell you they have no mic or will come up with a reason not to speak


I am a woman and I simple refuse to voice chat because it invades my privacy. All the ugly suspicions going on about which female av is a guy just disgust me. SL is a virtual world, and if some miserable guy has to buy a pixel escort to get some pleasure, he buys an *illusion*. THere are even guys that work as female phone sex "escorts" by high level voice acting. If you want a verified woman get one in RL and stop suspecting us non-voicers.
Johan Laurasia
Fully Rezzed
Join date: 31 Oct 2006
Posts: 1,394
07-28-2007 17:38
From: Sally Silvera
kinda sums it up for me really...... the implication appartently is that if you don't use voice, you must be hiding something. Nothing personal Johan, just the fact that you and others before you have said this in their posts rather too often and too casually for my taste.


I'm implying no such thing, all I'm saying is that those who ARE doing so dont like voice for this reason. I'm not at all saying those who simply (for whatever other reason) are hiding something. You took what I said out of context.. I did mention that some may not like it because of a speech impediment, being a mute, or an unusually high voice for a male, or low for a female... there can be more reasons than just wanting to continue a charade, I'm simply pointing out that those who do, dislike voice. Besides, as I said before, voice is not a requirement, if one doesnt wish to use it, dont... it's that simple. The argument that "my friends ignore me becauase I dont use voice" is stupid as well. If your friends ignore you, they're not your friends, go find some, there's 40k people logged on.
Jannae Karas
Just Looking
Join date: 10 Mar 2007
Posts: 1,516
07-28-2007 17:43
From: Johan Laurasia
I'm implying no such thing, all I'm saying is that those who ARE doing so dont like voice for this reason. I'm not at all saying those who simply (for whatever other reason) are hiding something. You took what I said out of context.. I did mention that some may not like it because of a speech impediment, being a mute, or an unusually high voice for a male, or low for a female... there can be more reasons than just wanting to continue a charade, I'm simply pointing out that those who do, dislike voice. Besides, as I said before, voice is not a requirement, if one doesnt wish to use it, dont... it's that simple. The argument that "my friends ignore me becauase I dont use voice" is stupid as well. If your friends ignore you, they're not your friends, go find some, there's 40k people logged on.


I just don't want to be miked. I listen to background music when in SL. Also I don't need to hear the "YOU pretty. Have sex with me now?" It's annoying enough in text chat.
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Colette Meiji
Registered User
Join date: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 15,556
07-28-2007 19:45
From: Jannae Karas
I just don't want to be miked. I listen to background music when in SL. Also I don't need to hear the "YOU pretty. Have sex with me now?" It's annoying enough in text chat.


One of the things about voice that scares me the most:

The intentional and Unintentional -

Borat imatations.
Brenda Connolly
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Join date: 10 Jan 2007
Posts: 25,000
07-28-2007 21:19
From: Blah Allen
89% of the females in SL are males who will tell you they have no mic or will come up with a reason not to speak,Lots of typing will still be used.

Whose ass did you pull that number out of?
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Cherry Czervik
Came To Her Senses
Join date: 18 Feb 2006
Posts: 3,680
07-28-2007 21:44
It's optional.

Most people won't want to use it in public.

It has an 'Only Friends Call' function.

Most people use it in either IM or Conference mode anyway.

What's the big furore?

Before I get flamed for being insensitive, I both have a small amount of hearing loss from birth AND have hyperacuity. I'm still gonna use the voice ...
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Cherry Czervik
Came To Her Senses
Join date: 18 Feb 2006
Posts: 3,680
07-28-2007 21:57
From: Broken Xeno
Okay, so on the whole voice issue;

I've been known to frequent several Welcome Areas, specifically Violet and Wengen (Chalet Linden), mostly Violet.

Anyway, when Firstlook first dropped, and voice came to Chalet, everyone had it. Eventually it came to Violet, and everyone had it there too. And we all used it a lot. I had it mostly to speak to my girlfriend with, which I still do.

At first, everyone was using it almost exclusively. There was a point when my mic broke, and I tried to have a conversation with people who were on voice. I could hear them, but I had to type. They had the hardest time reading text and typing, and I even found myself facing that problem. So as a consequence, text got ignored, and I could not have a conversation with them, and these were my friends.

That was around when it first came out.

Now, no one even bothers with voice anymore in Violet. They are bored of it, uninterested in using it, and back to almost exclusively chatting with text again. And I've noticed this trend everywhere I go, be it other hubs, stores, clubs, wherever. Almost everyone has slipped back into just using text, or using voice very sparingly.

I think unlike a lot of games, maybe voice is just going to be something of a novelty to SL-goers. I love it, especially the private voice chat conference, I use that a lot with Mia, but other than that? Not too much. I, like most people I know, have slipped back into typing again.


Can I just say ... this sums it up as far as I am concerned. He's hit the nail right on the head. Whilst I don't care who hears me speak, it's my partner I use voice with. I'd use it with friends both rl-but-in-sl and with sl friends. If there's something interesting happening in public I might join in but not felt the urge so far. So for me, the people I talk to are also people I'd be happy to chat to (and do chat to) on the phone or face to face, mainly.

The thing I hope never happens is webcam integration - not only for the 'must be hiding something' argument but because that would break immersion so much there would be no point in playing. I know what reality looks like thanks ... I don't even like RL textures/pictures used in SL.

BUT that's rambling off point a bit. Mainly, I think that voice will be just a feature/tool to be used like any other. Plus, I think Brenda's point about comedy holds ... I saw this very nice av the first day I used voice, he started talking to my partner in public and he had the strongest Bolton accent I have ever heard ...
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Monalisa Robbiani
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Join date: 9 Jul 2007
Posts: 861
07-29-2007 00:37
From: Johan Laurasia
there can be more reasons than just wanting to continue a charade


I will keep saying it over and over: A male using a female av is not more of a "charade" than me using a cat one. It's called a virtual world vs. real world.
Colette Meiji
Registered User
Join date: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 15,556
07-29-2007 06:17
From: Cherry Czervik
It's optional.

Most people won't want to use it in public.

It has an 'Only Friends Call' function.

Most people use it in either IM or Conference mode anyway.

What's the big furore?

Before I get flamed for being insensitive, I both have a small amount of hearing loss from birth AND have hyperacuity. I'm still gonna use the voice ...


You are right - It is optional.

However it being standard WILL be used as leverage in attempts to try to force people to use it.

Its not really Linden Labs at fault for that. Its just how some people are.

I think thats all anyone's trying to say. They dont want people using it as leverage against them.

They dont want pre-judged accused of lying, hiding, whatever.

They dont want their friends drifiting away from them becuase they dont voice, They dont want to be left out of things.

If you havent seen how whiny, pleady or downright nasty people who want non-voicers to voice with you can be, that is good. It does happen though, many would rather not experience that on a daily basis.

Its optional but if you choose "NO" your choice will not go respected by everyone.
Brenda Connolly
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07-29-2007 10:12
From: Monalisa Robbiani
I will keep saying it over and over: A male using a female av is not more of a "charade" than me using a cat one. It's called a virtual world vs. real world.

Unfortunately, the paranoids can't see it that way. They are so afraid that someone is hiding 'something". It's interesting that the malority of non voicers are women, many of whom want to protect their identities for a number of valid reasons, and the most fervent shouters down are men, using inflammatory phrases like "hiding", "excuses", "morally reprehensable" (my personal favorite).
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