Age Verification is here!!

Opps sorry, my apologies. I was not referring to the people of the USA in general, just some of the people who make the rules.

And it does have something to do with what is being discussed here. The Net Neutrality, ID verification and loss of freedoms are all connected and something every US citizen should be concerned about.

Parents can authorise kids to get a credit card at 13, kids can't get credit cards themselves at 13. The parent pays the bill, the kid doesn't get the bill. In the UK the national lottery site won't accept cards that people under 16 can obtain.

This is precisely why the object-based system would be better. Not allowed to partake in pixel sex in China? No pixel sex for you!

I'm not surprised - the databases needed to validate SSNs (or NSN) etc. in the UK can't even be shared between government departments and are licensed to only a few credit verification agencies under very restrictive licenses so it seemed very unlikely Aristotle would have access to them.

I think LL have been taken in by a good salesman. The whole concept is flawed - the various id cards all rely on the person being present. A national identity card, passport etc. all have a photograph or other biometric which proves the bearer of the card/passport is the person it describes. They aren't designed for remote identity verification.

A driving license isn't really a form of identity vertification - it is a license to drive! However, if it has a photograph on it (as most modern ones do), it can be used to verify identity but only if the person being verified is present.

In the UK, the National Insurance Number is not really a means of identity verification, it is a means of tracking tax payments. It doesn't have a photograph ono the NIN card, but as people generally do not go around fraudulently paying other peoples tax for them this hardly matters.

So at best, all that these can be used for over the internet is proving the existence of a person, but not verify anyones identity.

However, the databases of the information needed to check these numbers against are not universally available. In the UK, there are legal restrictions on accessing these even for government departments, for other countries they may not even exist. So spoofing the system is probably just a case of working out which country, Aristotle has no data for, selecting that and making the rest up.

I hope LL are not paying too much for this service because it is so flawed as to offer no better verification of age (e.g. as a legal defense should a minor access adult material) than a checkbox saying "Please verify you are over 18".

As regards online verification of identity, LL would have been better off looking at some of the mechanisms behind OpenID, CardSpace or similar systems, where you adopt an ID and then have other people or institutions vouch for you against that ID. LL could maintain a list of institutions it is prepared to accept such vouches from (e.g. banks). LL need never know you actually identity - just that a bank (or other organisation) LL is prepared to trust is willing to validate that ID belongs to someone over 18. Not only are these systems designed to work online, but they also allow the end user control over whom has their personal details and yet still allow certain attributes (e.g. being over 1 to be verified to third parties without passing on additional details.

There are a number of companies developing such systems and these (IMHO) have a much brighter future than the "giant database" approach of verity, and (IMHO) would have been a better option for LL to look into given LL's aspirations to be leading edge and future setting.

Matthew

Someone suggested this a while back, when the idea of age verification first raised its ugly head. Too bad LL doesn't read the forums more often; this would have been the perfect solution.

Indeed, I've emailed the passport office and the DVLA asking them on what authority can Integrity Aristotle confirm my details, I haven't received a reply so maybe it's been flagged as spam.

However a passport number is no means of identity, even when you e-check in for a flight, you still have to show your passport in person to confirm your identity before you can board the flight.

When I opened a new bank account, I had to verify with my passport in person. This whole process is silly and Aristole are asking for more information than they need for this process, which leaves me wondering what they will do with this additional information because it will have to be stored somewhere.

I think that to, but considering that ever object in SL is assigned a unique identifier, going through and somehow identifying each one would be a monumental. if not impossible task.

If this goes through then most users will be forced to verify at some point or be banned from the majority of SL sims. As minors are not supposed to be here anyhow, it's only a small step to ban non age verified users from the grid totally. I hate to say this, but if LL really want to play CYA then it's going to come to that.

Age and Sex verification, I don't have a problem with, but address, location etc is none of their business.

Same here. I'm sure they don't have this info. If so, they wouldn't be asking for it. If they have it, they're breaking many of the northern European data laws concerning integrity.

I will never provide any game company, 3rd party, with this type of information but only governmental authorities. We are told to never give out this information over here. Third parties are also only 'human beings' who can make mistakes and information can accidentally slip out of their systems. Even if they say they'll keep everything safe, that's not a guarantee. Authorities, on the other hand, that also keep this type of data in computer systems are responsible if something happens to you because of their failure. It will be much harder to claim a 3rd party of being responsible if you get in trouble after having provided them with this type of information yourselves. Think about that.

Identity theft is a huge worldwide problem that can ruin your life completely. Transfering data like this over the internet is a risk every time it's done as it can be picked up by spyware or other types of malware on the way to the destination.

There's absolutely no need for LL to have this information either and nobody's business how old we are or where we live etc. We continue to give this information to people we want to give it to, just like irl. Yes, I know you won't have to disclose it in SL but it's still just as bad to give out this info to a 3rd party company.

So, how do we protect children from adult stuff on the internet, SL etc? Every parent is responsible to take care of their kids. If you send your kids over a busy road to buy candy you run a risk they'll be hit by a car unless you don't accompany them. The same counts for computers. If you put them in front of the computer with a web connection and leave the room they'll probably find alot of stuff on the net that they're not mature enough to watch. The internet is loaded with it and so is SL, no difference there. For adults, sex and nudity is very normal, natural and good in all ways though and we have a right to be sexual human beings as adults. We can't expect SL to be any different from the internet in the long run as 3d worlds like SL are probably going to replace the 2d internet one day, hopefully anyway.

So what then? PROTECT YOUR KIDS BY NOT PUTTING THEM IN FRONT OF A COMPUTER WITH A WEB CONNECTION! It's just as simple as that. It's all up to you, not LL. A kid is a small and curious human being and he/she can find your cigarettes or your car keys or your kitchen knives and do all sorts of bad things with them.

As I said, I'll never provide this information. If LL wants to isolate me and keep me from visiting adult places in SL because of this, I'll probably just be bored and leave SL. If that's what LL wants, fine with me. There are other upcoming 3d worlds and LL won't get anymore of my money.

The primary concern would be animations and textures. I would surmise that there are far fewer unique animations than there are plots of land. Textures... eh, I don't know.

The onus would be on content creators to properly label their stuff. And as well it probably should be.

added a link to the top and corrected the typo from the bio , thank you for pointing that out.

The "integrity" of this company will become extremely clear to anyone who reads the article that was actually discovered by SL residents months ago. I am still trying to believe that LL would sell us out like this and try to coax us into believing everything will be fine.

That's so par for the course, NEVER trust a multi million dollar company EVER. They would sell their own soul if it was valuable to someone... oh wait it is... Hey LL found you a buyer!

But Wait there's more! As reported by the slPixelPulse in http://www.slpixelpulse.com/2007/05/27/your-world-your-imagination-your-first-life-identity/

The President of the company Michael Colopy states
"When the one-time verification is completed, the company returns a verification score back to LL and does not use people’s information for any other purposes. However, Colopy said a record of the verification process is retained so the company could re-examine it if there was “an overwhelming legal requirement to do so.”"

My info isn't gonna be stored by them? What Robin, what did you say? Either you have crossed over to the dark side and joined the ranks of all the other corporate and political self made gods who believe that they can just lie and make people do whatever they want, or you really should have done your research.

As someone else pointed out if your in the UK you just need to give your name, basic address details, and date of birth. Don't give a passport or driving license number and you'll still verify successfully... assuming your registered to vote that is...

Anyone doing the survey afterwards probably noticed the last question which was something like...

If you DID NOT veryify successfully..

1) do you have a passport
2) do you have a driving license
3) are you registered to vote

So it seems pretty clear cut to me that they're using the electoral role to verify your details... that said it happens amazing quick which made me wonder if it was doing anything at all

So for anyone in the UK I would say try it with minimal information first, only if that doesn't work give them more detailed information (assuming you still want to verify).. after all why give out your passport number etc if you don't really need to!

So .. basically .. as long as you know someone's name, address and date of birth.

Something any kid will know about their parents. As well as many people will know about their boss, or coworkers, ex girl-friend, cousin, etc.

Someone can verify as someone else, no problem. As long as they vote.

Really foolproof system.

So why didn't they say this in the blog? I can't remember which electoral register I'm on, I mean I'm on it but there's the open register and the more restricted register and I'm pretty sure I opted for the latter.

By the way I've just been informed that age verification isn't to prove how old I am to LL, it's to prove it to fellow residents so they will trust me more.

Yes becuase all of LL's content is PG


the only thing keeping kids off the grid is US, the residents, and all our nuaghty content.

By replying to these questions you approve that the 3rd party are allowed to check databases for your passport, driving license or voting registration data.

I advise you to NOT provide them with this information.

My guess is, Aristotle are paying LL

Call me cynical... but in this case i ask two questions...

A) in whose interest is it that this happens and who gains from it?
B) which way is the money flowing?

imogen

I'm on the restricted register, so I do wonder if anything I entered was actually used to verify me! Unfortunately I can't un-verify to try again!

Re Collete's point - just go down you local public library and flick through the various directories in the Whos Who section and you'll bound to find a suitable name, address and DoB you could use to "verify" yourself.

Matthew

Walk out your door , sown the street ,

Knock on the door

"Hi im giving out chances to win $1,000,000. All I need is your name and date of birth" *smiles*


Record the address off the street.


Bingo. Back in SLbusiness.

It's not an issue of trust. And it IS having an impact already. I received 4 offline IMs already from places I have vendors talking about changes they are having to make now that LL is doing this. I will quite possibly be losing vendor spots, and thus income in SL.

Gambling did away with casinos...it seems this is a way to do away with adult materials in SL. Think about it, SL is a place where many many people can come to act out their most extreme desires safely...would YOU want to be forced to make the following declaration?

"Hello, my name is Mrs. Sarah Jane Smith, mother of 3, age 42, living at 123 Main St. Anytown, USA, and I like to dress like a chicken and have sex with a horse"?

Attaching a specific ID verification to your account will do that, if you enjoy such practices.

I haven't decided yet. Since I don't go around dressed like a chicken (or doing horses), that's not so much of a problem to me. But, I AM a grandfather to two lovely young girls, and I DO make and sell things in SL that are considered outside the normal things you would see walking down the street of Anytown, USA.

I may not dress like a chicken, but my avatar is a 7' tall demon with a tail, horns, red eyes, and burns when he hovers...

Not exactly what you see on main street either.

Since I live in the bible belt it's not a stretch of the imagination to imagine being a demon that sells things in mature areas of SL to be something that might cause me a few problems being the grandfather to two underaged girls were it to become public knowledge.

I don't like the idea of giving up my SSN or DL number. Identity theft is a real problem. My DL doesn't have my SSN on it to protect against that very thing. Identity theft is an easy thing to do. Giving that information to a company that has been proven to sell the info they gather doesn't seem like a wise choice. I believe that, under federal law, you can't REQUIRE someone to give you their SSN unless there are tax questions involved. With the recent attempts to tax virtual income in the USA, you have to wonder if this is laying the groundwork for that. LL already knows how much money you put into or pull out of SL, if they can PROVE who you are to the taxman when he comes knocking, then they can report just how much money you have been making to make sure you pay the taxes on it...or get arrested for not paying the taxes you weren't aware you owed.

As I said, I am undecided.

I enjoy SL. I enjoy making the things I sell in SL. I enjoy the people I meet and talk to in SL. I think we will see fewer of the things I like in SL as more and more of this verification takes place.

SL was fun when I first joined. I've watched it change so much and so far from it's claims of
that it really saddens me to see them still claiming it. If it's "entirely built and owned" by us, shouldn't we have some say in it? Well I say No.

I was verified when I joined. Not long after I joined they switched to "open enrollment" or whatever they called it, where they let anyone create an account with whatever details they wanted. When I joined I had to be able to prove in some way I was connected to the name I entered as my own. I did that. That should be enough. Now you are telling me that if I want to be able to get to my own vendor locations I have to provide you and your 3rd party partner with further details about who I am to be allowed access to what I have built and own. Isn't paying you $22.50 every 3 months enough? Attached to my identity verified paypal account? Check my standing with paypal, you will find I have every verification they offer, and they verify me through my bank as well.

When is enough enough? Is this all just because there was a story on German TV about underaged sex in SL? Underaged people aren't allowed in SL, so it's not an issue. Just go back to what you used to do, require that people prove they are who they say they are when they join up. Did you realize just how bad a mistake you made when you quit requiring that, so now you are going overboard in the other direction?

I already proved it to you. Set the flag in my account that says so so that I can continue to have access to what I have been paying you for access for for the past 16+ months.

Quit screwing up this world we are building for you...sit back and let us play. Fix all the problems you have caused already, quit adding in new ones (like IDV) and hoping we will ignore the old ones. Hell, I'm still waiting for you to fix flight! When I first joined I loved flying around SL in all kinds of aircraft. Haven't been able to do that for nearly a year...crossing a sim line is gambling with your aircraft.

Wait a minute, gambling is illegal in SL now...

Hmmmmmmm...

Guess you'd better hurry and fix it eh? Wouldn't want to be arrested for breaking your own rules, now would you?

ImpDaddy
ImpDaddy Designs

They'll have fun trying to find that for me i don't drive & i don't currently have a passport,lol

Interestingly I just checked with my partner and we both opted out of the "open" electoral role (the one that can be bought by third parties), we had a quick look at some related info and as far as we can see because of this and the data protection act they can't get access to anything other than name, address & DOB, which is all we gave them anyway.

I agree with the other posts saying it makes the whole thing virtually useless and extremely easy to get around, but i guess it's more of a "we have to be seen to be doing something" on ll part than the system actually working.

If you provide your information to a company outside of the remit of the data protection act, you forfeit any protections under it.

However as you only gave the details you did, you should be ok

Not even date of birth. Name and address only. All you know is that everybody on the list is over 18 years old. Also worth noting (apart from those who didn't bother registering to vote) is that over 36% of registered voters choose to withold their details from the publicly available list. Ie. the version of the electoral roll sold to companies like Integrity UK. So if it's true that this is being used (and it would make sense) a lot of people will still have problems .. if they are honest.

Wanna be dishonest? Go through a UK phonebook. Pick a random name and address. Visit 192.com, enter the surname and postcode and click search. If the person you chose is on the electoral roll, their full details will appear. Next step I guess is to register an SL account using this false information, verify it, and go check out all the pr0n.

As it was suggested that driving license and passport numbers are fallbacks if you're not on the publicly available electoral roll, I will just reiterate: Those details are not available on any public database, nor can they be used to verify address or identity because no business in the UK has a reference source to cross-check them against.

This is why alarm bells are sounding. If no other business has this information, why is Integrity UK harnessing it? If they're not harnessing it, what _are_ they doing with it because they're sure not using it to verify anybody's details.

lol Matthew! Do you mean that you don't think the verification (in the UK) uses any data from LL (or your on-file credit card with them) to verify that the name you type matches your acocunt, or the address matches that on your credit card? You think you could type any name?

If so, I hope the entire UK verifies as Gordon Brown. I wonder if there is any way at all that we could get everyone in the US verified as Elvis.

Maybe becuase they figure if you will provide this information you must be who you say you are

LOL