New TOS/CS pages are up...

Heh... Only have to refer back to a couple of previously locked threads to see some prime examples. =^-^=

all i am saying is the continent itself is not rated..LL lands will still be as they are anyplace else..there are still going to be public rules there..

not everyone is going to drop adult content in their sims..
the land is going to have a lot of value to it..
if someone sets their rules for their sim ..they have every right to send someone on their way..
in other words they can make their sim pg content if they want or mature..

i just don't think people with adult content are the only ones looking to buy there..
they may not be able to advertise but they can have any kind of sim there they want is what i am getting at..

in other words you can't just go running around all crazy nude bouncing into sims that don't want that there..a lot mistake adult content as sex only and thats just not the case..they still have to respect the regions and the public areas.


i understand what you are saying about sim ratings..thats pretty clear..
i was getting that it won't be a free for all at the gates mainly..

Who ARE these supposed "teams of people forming up with the intent of going around *private* mainland parcels looking for adult content to AR"? Where do they come from?

Seriously. I've seen a few over-enthusiastic individuals go scouting for AR-able material, but never organized "teams." And, personally at any rate, I've never seen anyone targeting "private" (i.e., residential) property. Ever.

I'll say it again: I think the lack of clarity in the guidelines makes a lot of people vulnerable. That's one reason why I think LL needs to rationalize the current scattered regulations about content and behaviour. But the notion that waves of vigilantes are going to sweep over the mainland in a frenzy of ARing is just paranoid fantasy.

This is interesting. Have they failed to run their legally binding document- the ToS- by their lawyers? Or are their lawyers just really bad? Or are the lawyers alright, but get such poor information and input from Linden Lab that they can't be effective? (No matter how good a lawyer is, it's hard to make lemonade if all the client is giving is piss.)

Good legal advice and drafting would work toward clarity, not vagueness, for two reasons. One, a clear contract avoids litigation. Second, there's that old contract law principle that when interpreting a vagueness in a contract, it is construed against the drafter.

I suppose they could take a different look at it, banking on being so confusing the people give up on ever pursuing a claim against Linden Lab, because they can't afford an attorney, assume the vagueness is there problem and not Linden Labs, and assume that Linden Lab's lawyers must have looked at it and therefore it must be rock solid. But that is a dangerous bluff.

I wonder- is Linden Lab management trying to write up documents with legal consquences on their own, because they can't afford the legal services, or are just too arrogant or stupid to leave the lawyering to the lawyers?

Good questions, all of them. I have no idea, except perhaps that, as I've suggested, LL finds the vagueness "useful" on occasions. But yes, I would have thought that from both legal and PR perspectives, they would want the KB article on sexualized age play, at the least, incorporated into the CS. The KB surely would not hold the same legal weight as the CS and ToS? And god knows, it's not easy to find.

Jon told me he didn't know why this material was scattered around, instead of gathered together. I believe him.

The basic rule is that a contract is interpreted based upon the text in the contract itself. The ToS is the contract. Anything outside the contract just has no weight (except in certain circumstances). They could incorporate by reference other documents- for example, stating that the definitions in the KB are controlling and link to that- but of course, they don't. (They do incorporate Community Standards by reference in the ToS.)

An excpetion to the rule that a contract could not be interpreted based on outside documents is that a court could potentially use extraneous documents against Linden Lab, if Linden Lab used those documents to induce people to agree to the ToS or purposefully or negligently created confusion about the contract.

Sounds a bit as though it might be LL that is "vulnerable." at least in a legal sense.

The TOS seems to go against everything LL has said til now. They've explained multiple times that non-advertised adult content would stay and that the only truly non-adult areas would be PG and those would be very few such as corporate land. I think that they are either going to change the TOS again or they are going to keep it but not enforce it.

I doubt LL will be vulnerable legaly when it comes to upholding rules that or only in the KB afterall they have the rule in the TOS that they are alowed to ban anyone at any time for any reason or no reason at all.

So if a G-Team member had a fight with his wife the day before and decides to ban the first person they see then there is not a damn thing you can do about it.(granted a bit extreme exsample but legaly posible)

Well imagine the outrage if they had said just what the TOS says.. "No Adult Content on the mainland". So they dribble this out, slip this in when no one is looking. It is not like there is a blog on this, or any sort of announcement.. Typical LL actions.

If you go back and read what they said.. It was always with conditionals.. "Should be" "Sounds right to me". I cannot find anyplace where they said.. "This is how it will be". But the bottom line is not what they said, but what they have put into writing, what is said in the TOS.. And in that there is nothing about non-advertised.. It is quite clear.. " 'Adult' content, activity and communication are not permitted on the Second Life 'mainland."

And as for the not enforce it part. Well the G-team may not go roaming about looking into every house.. But next time your neighbor decides they want your land, or you p*ss someone off, well then expect that AR and a nice visit from the G-Team. And then it will be enforced...

Oh and give them a few months.. Then it will be just plain "No Adult content in Second Life"
M will "clean up' Second life regardless of the cost.. He is quite convinced that once all the Adult content is gone that the rest of the world will flock to SL like it was Disneyland.

Still not absolute about what Mature is then. Will they give Mainland Sim owners the Estate Tools to flag a sim Adult?

Edit: At least Estate tools for sim banning rather than making every plot NPIOF nono.

No, only islands I think.

"Second Life's Mature Designation is intended to accommodate most of the non-adult activities that are common in Second Life. For instance, social and dance clubs (unless those clubs promote sexual conduct or use adult search tags), bars, stores and malls, galleries, music venues, beaches, parks (and other spaces for socializing, creating, and learning) all support a Mature designation so long as they don't host publicly promoted adult activities or content."

So, its OK to get naked and "get busy" at my private club on the mainland that does not promote sexual conduct, is not searchable and does not publicly promote anything?

According to Blondin you can wiggle your tassles or anything else you like in your club so long as ...

1. You don't have any sexual contact animations for customers use either on the main floor or in a back room

2. You don't advertise or promote your private club using "Adult' words

That's my current understanding but pinning their definitions down is a bit like trying to nail jelly to a wall

^L^

Yeah, estate is an option I suppose (I have calmed down a bit since last night ), although I can't see mature estate regions being any more AR-proof than mature mainland, so if I went that route, I'd be looking for Adult estate.

I just love mainland. I love the continuous geography, roads, waterways ... stuff like that. Also, I love not having a covenant to worry about, so while estate is an option, it's not one I can get at all excited about

LMAO! Great analogy, Lasher! (oops! Wonder if "analogy" might show up as an "Adult" word. I mean....look at the first 4 letters. )

1. Since this is an "access restricted to by-invitation-only group members" club, we don't, technically, have "customers". And, even if we did, we could set out any "sexual contact animations" in the basement......rules don't say anything about a basement, do they?

2. Unless "PPAARRTTYY" ends up on the forbidden list, we're safe

Thanks for the response, Lasher. I'm loading up my nail gun.....

Is it possible to filter out PG parcels in search...

My reading of the CS is that
1. No Adult content is permitted on Mainland - other than in the Zindra continent - Period!
2. Outside of Zindra and PIs flagged as adult, Adult content is permissible on PIs provided that it is not publicly advertised or promoted.


The section of the CS that might appear to permit non-advertised Adult content in Mainland contains language that indicate to me that it was written purly with PIs in mind.
"Second, we will conduct proactive monitoring and rely on abuse reports that identify adult content or conduct that is promoted or advertised publicly. Where adult content or conduct on a Region is publicly advertised or promoted, that Region must be designated as Adult (or such content must be removed). We will re-designate such Regions if adult content is not removed. "

There seems to be a huge contradiction between the flat-out "no Adult content on Mainland" and the indirect implications about non-promoted Adult content.
That might be explained if the grey area is limited to PIs.






As for PG....
One of our group builds is on a big chunk of a PG sim, with Linden oceans on two boundaries and on a diagonal. Part of it is a harbour with boat-rezzing - and a PUB!! ZOMG!!
Only in SL would you find an Irish harbour without a pub. In RL, it would be full of grannies, and grade-school kids would be sitting outside drinking lemonade.

In that same PG sim is an ugly Zyngo palace sitting on 8192m of water. Apparently this is not gambling. Apparently it is a game of skill - unlike poker, which is not a game of skill.
The question is..... Is Zyngo PG?
The Zyngo place is down to one free prim, and have asked about buying some of our land. I imagine that they will AR the pub, and that we will AR the Zyngo

We'll have to put up a sign - "Alcohol-free drinks!"

Although...... there's good in everything. Lots of hits on the legitimate contextual use of the 'free' keyword.
Free alcohol-free drink!

It can't be virtually alcohol-free though. It will have to be absolutely alcohol free. We'll have to try and get Concierge to give us a certificate.

This same issue or very similar came up in forums and at office hours about six weeks ago - Blondin was asked how the new rules would apply, I'll try to dig out the actual conversation from the slapt.me wiki for you, but from vague recollection it all hinged around how big the nawty *party* was and how it was communicated, so 5 or six swingers getting it on behind some thick walls was 'ok' but 30 or so ravers whooping it up would stretch the limit, in 3 months of closely watching this policy being rolled out - I still have no real idea of what the guidelines are concerning 'word of mouth' promotion ie Group IMs and group notices.

Blondin's stock response on these issues is that if you are unsure either cut out the nawty stuff or request a swap to Zindra where you can let it all swing without fear of being AR'd and a G team slapping.

^L^

My reading of it is that Linden Lab still aren't giving us the full story of what they're upto. The CS does read as if no adult content or activity is allowed on mainland. I have been to office hours where LL have said that in private it's ok, but that is more hinted at in the kb articles than made clear and gives LL plenty of wiggle room to decide to say "It's not allowed on mainland full stop".



Well maybe you can give them red lemonade as a selling point as Linden Lab keep trying to find ways of introducing their initial definitions I wouldn't be at all surprised if they try and slip the "No social references to alcohol on PG land" back into the equation.

To me, they're just weaselling around this in the vain hope they won't upset too many people. no, really! lol

This is supposedly a 3 phase approach going on for the rest of the year. For a long time now I've believed that the original kb6010 is what they're aiming for and with the new tos/cs it's pretty apparent that we are going to end up with a pg mainland with token mature for skin shops/dance clubs and everything else, including private residences, will end up adult.

Despite the fact I'm not happy about having to give up my land that I took so long to find and it exactly what i wanted (give or take a bit) I do think the best thing is for everyone to apply for the swap and move.

Trying to find ways to convince yourself that you'll be ok is just a way of dragging this out.

LL will be more than happy for everyone to move to estates (more tier of course and less work) but I'm damned if I'll reward them for their appalling behaviour over this. The sheer duplicitousness of their behaviour astounds me. Had they just come out and said this is what they wanted to do there would have been howls but by now we'd be resigned to it. Instead they're sapping more of our time and lives by having to try to second guess them.

bah

Two problems (at least) with that:
1. For swap, they are only considering commercialised adult content that would be significantly impacted by a ban on the promotion of that content.
2. Zindra terrain is completely boring
I have 'crinkly' bits of coast and river and Linden water, oceans, roads and railroads on the boundaries.
That doesn't exist in Zindra.
Compare the terrain in the old continents with flat boring Zindra. There is no equivalent land.

Most of what I do in SL is PG, but I do like my kink when I feel like it - and I like to do that in an environment with some taste and imagination.
Zindra seems to have been designed largely as a ghetto to host a multi-sim desert of sex-boxes.

They do have more servers lined up to add to the landmass, but I have a feeling that apart from some granite mountain bits in the current SE, it will be more of the same.

That would be exactly how I interpret this, as well. Two *seperate* rules. One bans ALL adult mainland content, except in Zindra, period; and one that further defines what must be restricted to Adult sims if on a Private Island Sim (advertised or publicly open Adult activity).

Is it OK to walk around with a 10 foot erection on Zindra?

Or...maybe I should ask it differently: what isn't allowed on Zindra
aside from gambling?

Not being a legal eagle....what's the bottom line with this revised TOS/CS?
Don't want to read all pf this thread....as most of it looks like interpretation of the wording.






.