New TOS/CS pages are up...

In Section 1.2 of the TOS, it states:

"1.2 Linden Lab is a service provider, which means, among other things, that Linden Lab does not control various aspects of the Service. "

If this whole "adult content" stuff is from people offended by "pixels having sex", then shouldnt these same "offended" people try challenging the Internet??

The way I'm seeing it- you need to get on your computer, make an account, download the client (which states it is an ADULT place), log in.

If you dont like it, why are you here???

Ah! Wait! Nevermind! This is America, where we no longer accept responsibility for our actions!! Silly me! I forgot about that!

YAY! I gets a cookie!!!

Reread the pertinent parts but instead of applying any old definition, apply only the very specific and limited LL maturity rating definition of "Adult."

I don't think people need to become upset.

That makes sense and I would be happy with that if everyone... including the G-team has that same understanding.

Actually, it's more like politicians with a score to settle.
Given the major turn in current events, we will see fewer witch hunts for the immediate future. Once the 3rd Quarter rally in consumer spending kicks in it will be safe for the poly types to return to whatever tactic they need to get maw and paw fence sitter onto their side.

This will be short lived because the 4th Quarter and into January will see a quick drop. This will have a lot of people scrambling and scared. Don’t be one of them. Keep your head during the up turn and the short drop will be nothing. This will just be a leveling out of the artificially high gains from the previous few months. By February we will return to a slow and stable growth so by next spring you will see a renewed effort to make the adult world safe for kids again.


But I'm not jaded

I read it the same way. The CS says:



The part I put stars around links directly to the KB definition here, which is all about advertised and publicly promoted activities.

https://support.secondlife.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=4417&task=knowledge&questionID=6010

I think they are only using their specific definition.

But which of the 3 Zindra info hubs?

Only one of them has the No Nudity sign, hidden on an out of the way wall texture. The others lack such signs unless they've just been added.

What would be the purpose of a LL Adult Continent with sims not rated Adult? Nothing can change once the parcels are sold.

From JIRA MISC-2727 discussion summary:

"10) Existing rules are poorly and variably enforced. We don't have any expectation that the new rules will be handled any better.

a) Current search entries violate the existing Community Standards, and list prohibited activities such as gambling

b) Adult activities are extensively advertised from PG land. "

That's why I created a wiki page for people to report what's actually happening.

It would be a contradiction for example, for someone to be told "This does not qualify as Adult to move to Zindra", and someone else to receive punishment for having the same exact thing on Mature land. The only way to tell if stuff like that is happening is if we share our experiences.

Agreed. However, I doubt if it is necessary to drive traffic to a 3rd party site just to share experiences. Remember, when gambling was flat-out banned, Strife started a sticky here to share info on what devices the Lindens removed and which they seemed to tolerate.

There was no Linden editting of that thread, and I'm quite sure there will be none on threads here that share experiences.

Incidently, how's the ecommerce doing on your new site, anyway?

All the sims in Zindra will be rated Adult, and NO resident will have the ability to change that rating.

But that would not prevent an individual from buying a whole sim there, and choosing to only place G-rated, kid-friendly content within the borders of their sim. In setting up there, they are agreeing that it is likely that their neighboring parcels could be anything at all. BUT they also would be fairly safe in assuming that no 13 year old griefer with an unverified, no payment info on file, throwaway account will EVER bother them there.

The sim would still be Adult rated. The resident owning land in the parcel could not lower the sim rating and advertize kids G-rated clothes that would show up in the PG search. If they DID set up a kids stuff store there, it would only show up on the Adult search.

I can buy an apartment in the downtown area of my town, in an area zoned for mixed use, and with the proper permits could turn it into a public bar. Or a church. Zindra is a mixed-use zoning area, where anything is allowed. And that INCLUDES the choice to NOT be a sex fiend, even though you are agreeing it is OK if your neighbor might be one.

SL is way too big a community to rely on a quiet gentleman's agreement. Reading this thread, and every other thread about adult content since March, including various Linden statements, everybody is interpreting things differently and that spells big trouble, so I agree that clarity is sorely needed. Given all the accommodating everyone is having to do to comply, it's simply unfair, and very poor governance.

Until today, I didn't think this affected me personally much at all. I have a few parcels of mature mainland but no content that would even raise an eyebrow on PG land (unless you count a "breed" function in an occasional borky a-life experiment). I have been, up 'til now, much more concerned about the effects on the SL community as a whole. However, today I learnt that my rl partner may have to relocate to the other side of the world for up to a year. Should that happen, he's agreed to make an SL account so we can at least ... ahem .. well, you know ... the point is, I don't want to have to go to a club or pay hourly rent on a skybox on Zindra to do that, I want to snuggle in with him at HOME, without looking over my shoulder worrying about AR's (whether they are likely or not).

Then there's the principle of the thing (hehe call me old fashioned). Just as with the OpenSpace fiasco, LL have sold a product and then changed the terms. That's just bad practice. I may have never planned on opening a sex venue, but on the other hand, perhaps I might. That's bad enough, but IF my interpretation of the new rules is correct, this is far worse: I don't suppose many people ever bought mature mainland without the thought in the back of their minds that one day they might at least put out a poseball or two for personal use. I suspect there are still a lot of people who know nothing about these changes at all, who even now may be buying mature mainland parcels under the (deliberately on LL's part?) mistaken assumption that they can do mature things on it.

So I do think it matters a LOT if the guidelines are being made as strict as they appear to be. This is no longer 2-4%, this is not a few edge cases, this affects, perhaps, the majority of mature mainland residents, and for those of us who don't have businesses or public venues, a land swap is not an option.

Business owners - this affects you a lot too: even if you successfully relocate to your dream zindra parcel, what use are your products if we have nowhere to put them?

Yup, I'm thinking of leaving.

Fuck

Now lets see what happens.

If you fear an AR on mainland, why do you feel you have to stay there? Residential island estate owners have been very clear that Mature residential sims will allow poseballs, sex beds, etc.. LL has been very clear that that's OK by them.
.

Just hang out, they may throw you out.
BT

Can't afford land on Zindra?

If I wanted to be on an estate, I would already be on an estate.

Way ahead of you Brad...see post #5

Maybe because there is no protection that land you rent from an island estate will still be available to you the next day after you rent it.

Awwwww, Golly Jeepers. You beat me to it.

Fuckin A

Three? There are only two infohubs in Zindra. Arapaima and Oritz/Gilda. The sign is in both.

Just like there is no protection that Linden Lab won't change the terms for what is allowed on land you buy from them, without notice?

Ah, this again! *laughs*

And, how secure are folks feeling on their Mature mainland just now? I've rented from various island estate owners since 2006 and never had a problem. My Mature residential builds will remain exactly as they are, all my landlords have been very clear about their policies, and my rents are equal to or a little less than tier. Particularly for the double-prim land.

I understand that some people prefer mainland. But, there ARE options.
.

I think LL has given us plenty of notice.

I've also had two parcels on private estates just go "boom" from under me, which is 100% more often than I've had LL change the rating of my lad... even including this fiasco.

Don't get me wrong, I like estates as well... I've had my land on LostFurest dAlliez about as long as my land in Noonkkot. I've had a great experience on the dAlliez islands: Alliez Mysterio is one of the best landlords in SL. And I have a great deal more control over my land than I do in Noonkkot. But even so it just hasn't been stable as mainland.

And, if I recall correctly, your own land has bounced around the map quite a bit.

I told you so, I told you so, I fucking goddam well told you so!

Linden Lab is moving to eliminate all adult content from Second Life. Don't believe their promises about adult content being "allowed" on Zindra or designated private estates.
Yes, sure, it's "allowed" there. For now.

But even though it's allowed, it won't be easy. Half your customers won't be able to find you, or get to you. If you move to Zindra, you'll be a second class citizen, subjected to enormous lag and zoning restrictions (no water access, even on the coastlines?)

Residents WILL be AR'd for "violations" on their private property, and I'll bet my last $L that a lot of them will be punished by the G Team.

This WILL kill Second Life. Adult content was never the only reason to be here...but it, and gambling, were the only profitable economic sectors. Now one is gone, and the other will be strangled soon.

This is not just LL shooting themselves in the foot. This time, they've shot themselves in the heart.