Welcome to the Second Life Forums Archive

These forums are CLOSED. Please visit the new forums HERE

plea to designers

Cristalle Karami
Lady of the House
Join date: 4 Dec 2006
Posts: 6,222
07-29-2008 09:46
From: Kaimi Kyomoon
I completely respect everything you are saying. Probably you are not in my target market and my shop is not your best place to look for clothes.

I do have things set up so that if you left click on one of my boxes you will see a list of the items for sale and what the perms are. Even so sometimes people IM me that they didn't realize something was no transfer and they want to give it as a gift. When that happens I always put another copy into a gift box and give it with a notecard to the intended recipient for them.

Respectfully, Kaimi, what *is* the target market?

If the difference between buy and sell is a slight modification to glitch pants, which does not fundamentally alter the appearance of the item when standing in normal positions, why is that a deal breaker?

We're not talking about lowering the cleavage to Jennifer Lopez' green dress levels. We're talking about modifying something so that if people want to wear sexy stockings and have them peek through while dancing, instead of lycra pants, they can.

The space here is so minimal, I think you can afford to relent a little bit here.

And just so you know, you should test uploads on the Aditi grid, won't cost you a L of your true linden balance.
_____________________
Affordable & beautiful apartments & homes starting at 150L/wk! Waterfront homes, 575L/wk & 300 prims!

House of Cristalle low prim prefabs: secondlife://Cristalle/111/60

http://cristalleproperties.info
http://careeningcristalle.blogspot.com - Careening, A SL Sailing Blog
Kaimi Kyomoon
Kah-EE-mee
Join date: 30 Nov 2006
Posts: 5,664
07-29-2008 09:57
From: Cristalle Karami
Respectfully, Kaimi, what *is* the target market?

If the difference between buy and sell is a slight modification to glitch pants, which does not fundamentally alter the appearance of the item when standing in normal positions, why is that a deal breaker?

We're not talking about lowering the cleavage to Jennifer Lopez' green dress levels. We're talking about modifying something so that if people want to wear sexy stockings and have them peek through while dancing, instead of lycra pants, they can.

The space here is so minimal, I think you can afford to relent a little bit here.

And just so you know, you should test uploads on the Aditi grid, won't cost you a L of your true linden balance.
I guess my target market is whoever wants to buy what I happen to have made and put up for sale. I do wish I had a lot more merchandise choices because I know for sure you are right that the more choices I have the more I sell. But I actually make more money from private contracts I get to make signs, builds, and custom stuff than I do from what I sell in my shop and I pretty much just make new clothes when I have time.
_____________________



Kaimi's Normal Wear

From: 3Ring Binder
i think people are afraid of me or something.
Amaranthim Talon
Voyager, Seeker, Curious
Join date: 14 Nov 2006
Posts: 12,032
07-29-2008 09:59
Cristalle - what is Aditi please? Open Life crashes constantly -
Oh, and unrelated.. was helping a friend look for houses last night- by chance cam e upon your work- very nice :)
_____________________
"Yield to temptation. It may not pass your way again. "
Robert A. Heinlein




http://talonfaire.blogspot.com/

Visit Talon Faire Main:
http://slurl.com/secondlife/Misto%20Presto/216/21/155- Main Store

XStreets: http://tinyurl.com/6r7ayn
Sassy Romano
Registered User
Join date: 27 Feb 2008
Posts: 619
07-29-2008 10:01
From: Cristalle Karami
If the difference between buy and sell is a slight modification to glitch pants, which does not fundamentally alter the appearance of the item when standing in normal positions, why is that a deal breaker?

I don't want it to seem like we're ganging up on poor Kaimi as she's merely one creator putting her view but to be clear, we're not even asking for a "slight modification". We're asking for the *right* to modify, there's no extra work by the creator to be done here.

I'm going to name the one designer that is the culprit that set me off on this... *Blaze.

There, I said it.

I'm also going to name one creator that for me offered a great service and that's Gima Designs. She does a number of full prim items and offers a fitting service where you send your shape numbers. In the end, I just sent my shape and a few minutes later received back skirts and top custom fit to my av.

How about we list some of the other success stories for a while. (frankly i'm astounded this thread has run as long as it has, I was just having a minor gripe!) :)
Kitty Barnett
Registered User
Join date: 10 May 2006
Posts: 5,586
07-29-2008 10:04
From: Amaranthim Talon
Cristalle - what is Aditi please?
It's the preview (aka beta) grid.

Unless you're specifically interested in testing a preview release (different from first looks and release candidates) you can just use Ctrl-Shift-G from the regular viewer's logon screen and pick Aditi from the grid list and log on as normal (pick Agni to log on to the main grid again).
Amaranthim Talon
Voyager, Seeker, Curious
Join date: 14 Nov 2006
Posts: 12,032
07-29-2008 10:05
From: Kitty Barnett
It's the preview (aka beta) grid.

Unless you're specifically interested in testing a preview release (different from first looks and release candidates) you can just use Ctrl-Shift-G from the regular viewer's logon screen and pick Aditi from the grid list and log on as normal (pick Agni to log on to the main grid again).

Thanks- has got to be better than Open Life - poor Ruth :(
_____________________
"Yield to temptation. It may not pass your way again. "
Robert A. Heinlein




http://talonfaire.blogspot.com/

Visit Talon Faire Main:
http://slurl.com/secondlife/Misto%20Presto/216/21/155- Main Store

XStreets: http://tinyurl.com/6r7ayn
Cristalle Karami
Lady of the House
Join date: 4 Dec 2006
Posts: 6,222
07-29-2008 10:08
From: Amaranthim Talon
Cristalle - what is Aditi please? Open Life crashes constantly -
Oh, and unrelated.. was helping a friend look for houses last night- by chance cam e upon your work- very nice :)

Thanks Ama!

Aditi is the preview grid, or beta grid. It augments your actual linden balance and none of it affects your main grid L balance or inventory. It is a good place to upload stuff without costing you a dime. It's a very small set of sims, and not every sim is available. Just log in to Ahern or Dore and you can get to some sandboxes from there.

I think it is ctrl shift g to show the various grids you can log into at the startup screen. There was a blog post about it by Prospero several months back. Realistically, we can only log into Agni (main grid) or Aditi.
_____________________
Affordable & beautiful apartments & homes starting at 150L/wk! Waterfront homes, 575L/wk & 300 prims!

House of Cristalle low prim prefabs: secondlife://Cristalle/111/60

http://cristalleproperties.info
http://careeningcristalle.blogspot.com - Careening, A SL Sailing Blog
Kaimi Kyomoon
Kah-EE-mee
Join date: 30 Nov 2006
Posts: 5,664
07-29-2008 10:08
From: Sassy Romano
Right... so here's one of yours, no particular reason, it popped up early in the search.
http://www.slexchange.com/modules.php?name=Marketplace&file=item&ItemID=392249

I would buy something like that.
I also note it has "bikini pants" which i'm interpreting as a short pant type yes?

*that's* all i'm asking for. No long pants under flexi skirts, it's just not right. :)
Thank you for looking at my stuff. :) This comes with glitch pants for the short skirt and the long skirt. I think the long pants look good without the prim skirt too. The prim skirts are modifiable so for many people they can be made to match up with the pants. This style skirt probably wouldn't look good with just the bikini or high cut briefs underneath. But If you wear just the top and one of the pairs of underpants you have a what I hope is a nice one or two piece swimsuit. I have sold quite a few of this style and had some positive feedback on it so from my point of view it is worth having it for sale.
_____________________



Kaimi's Normal Wear

From: 3Ring Binder
i think people are afraid of me or something.
Cristalle Karami
Lady of the House
Join date: 4 Dec 2006
Posts: 6,222
07-29-2008 10:20
From: Sassy Romano
I don't want it to seem like we're ganging up on poor Kaimi as she's merely one creator putting her view but to be clear, we're not even asking for a "slight modification". We're asking for the *right* to modify, there's no extra work by the creator to be done here.
I understand. I agree. I think that we should have some control over how we wear our clothes. Even though we buy it for a certain look, that basic look isn't going to change for 99% of people. It's the slight details - lengthening or shortening pants, maybe tinting a little. Someone who tints their item to an odd color shouldn't affect the person who sees the original model on the store ad.

Someone commented earlier about hair being no-mod. Yikes. I wouldn't dream of buying no-mod hair. I like to tint the usual 'dark brown' shades to an even darker shade of brown, but not the standard brown overlay, so that it looks more like my own hair, which is darkest brown. The paranoia about copying is understandable but must ultimately be gotten over. The people intent on copying use other means to get the info anyway, and it's not safe. Ever.
_____________________
Affordable & beautiful apartments & homes starting at 150L/wk! Waterfront homes, 575L/wk & 300 prims!

House of Cristalle low prim prefabs: secondlife://Cristalle/111/60

http://cristalleproperties.info
http://careeningcristalle.blogspot.com - Careening, A SL Sailing Blog
Kaimi Kyomoon
Kah-EE-mee
Join date: 30 Nov 2006
Posts: 5,664
07-29-2008 10:38
From: Czari Zenovka
I was just about to say the same thing but you beat me to it. ;)

I like the name: Kaimi's Normal Wear

I'm not into bared bellies, stripper-looking shoes, excessive bling, boobs popping out of shirts...in short...I enjoy clothes I would wear RL - my personal fantasy extends to more formal/medieval wear.

I'll be in your store soon as well, Kaimi :)
:) Thanks.
_____________________



Kaimi's Normal Wear

From: 3Ring Binder
i think people are afraid of me or something.
Kaimi Kyomoon
Kah-EE-mee
Join date: 30 Nov 2006
Posts: 5,664
07-29-2008 10:48
From: Cristalle Karami
... I think that we should have some control over how we wear our clothes. ...
The whole way the avatar is designed could be so much better than it is for designers and customers.
_____________________



Kaimi's Normal Wear

From: 3Ring Binder
i think people are afraid of me or something.
HoneyBear Lilliehook
Owner, The Mall at Cherry
Join date: 18 Jun 2007
Posts: 4,500
07-29-2008 10:53
From: Czari Zenovka
Woot! I just bookmarked your blog, HoneyBear!! After a year in SL, it's fun for me now to try to find decent freebies!

In digging through a box of decent freebies I had stored away to use for class materials for my students, I came across a really pretty summer dress in a light peach color that goes well with my skin and hair tone. I was wearing it when my partner arrived the other night and he raved about how great my "new outfit" looked. It was a real kick to tell him it was a freebie.


Awww, thanks Czari :)

Sometimes, it's a real PITA doing that blog. I got discouraged one week not too long ago and ran into a girl at a hair sale, who told me she was a reader and really appreciated it. That gave me the strength to go on, and the "blahs" quickly disappeared!

I'm averaging about 50 visits a day. That's exciting to me...lol
_____________________
Virtual Freebies now has its own domain!
URL=http://virtualfreebiesblog.com

The Mall at Cherry Park - new vendors, new look!
Ralektra Breda
Template Painter
Join date: 7 Apr 2008
Posts: 1,875
07-29-2008 12:32
From: someone

Each different length is a different texture which takes extra time to make. For each new length I'm going to have to upload several trial textures, look at it then tweak it and repeat in order to get the seems to match up. I can use the beta viewer to do it so I don't care about the upload costs but I do kind of want to charge extra money for the extra time it takes. From my point of view more than one length is more than one item.



I use AV Painter, it's available on Slex or you can get it inworld too, it's an awesome program for tweaking and saves a lot of trial and error uploads.
Soji Slade
Um . . . Hello?
Join date: 28 Mar 2007
Posts: 1,270
07-29-2008 13:30
From: Beebo Brink
Thanks. I was obviously out of the loop on that one. Cross-dressing does tend to narrow one's exposure to women's fashion issues.
In my case, cross-dressing lead me to exposure to women's fashion issues.
From: LittleMe Jewell
You mean everyone does not separate their skirts into folders for 'mini', 'thigh/knee-length', 'calf/long-length'? And even then, the 3 categories have hundreds of folders under them.

Though that "awesome inventory management" does include a HUGE, HUGE folder of "clothes" not yet sorted.
:o
You only separate by length? I have length and type (dressy, flashy, sporty, etc., Italian, Japanese). I do not have them by color yet (started doing that with my shoes then realized the shoe description had the color in it), though I have the matched shoes with the matching outfit.
From: Kitty Barnett

Personal petpeeves:
10) too small is better than too big - I have a belt I simply love, but it looks like a hoola hoop when I wear it and the dozens of 0.010cm prims make it practically impossible to size it down (simlarly glitch pants that end at the thigh while the hem of the skirt is below the knee)
Done ranting now :p.

I've ruined more than one pair of shoes because it is too small. The top part, the part that attaches to lower leg or whatever the attachment point is called (as opposed to foot). It is almost always too small for me, and never too large. So, for me at least, larger is better for shoes. I do not wear belts unless I attach everything in a folder and it, oddly, fits. Otherwise it, normally, is too small. Bloody small shoes and belts! AAAAHHH. Hate messing with prims.
From: Aebleskiver Thibedeau
That's so you can wear the pants with boots and thigh highs... It tucks into the boot. :)

I wish we had more layers and more attachment points! It's getting so I juggle attachment points like I do prims....
Thanks! I did not think of that and was getting frustrated that I could only buy non-boots. Even finally bought some shorts so I could wear something that has more prims than foot.
From: Min Fairweather
I just recently went back to a store to buy some more hair. The original hair I bought from the store was modify/copy and I was really happy with it.

So I bought the new hair and it's no modify! Only resize scripts inside :(
Went shopping this weekend. Took one look in one hair place I was told to go to and immediately turned and left after seeing that it included resize scripts. Same thing happened when I went to a clothing store and saw that on a box.
_____________________
From: Nimbus Rau
Nimbus Score is 9.5 out of a possible 10 - Wow! what a score. What a cat!

300th Post 2/22/08
400th Post 2/28/08
500th Post 3/14/08
600th Post 3/28/08
666th Post 8/05/08
SL music wiki
http://exploringvirtualworlds.wikidot.com/music-acts
LittleMe Jewell
...........
Join date: 8 Oct 2007
Posts: 11,319
07-29-2008 14:00
From: Soji Slade
You only separate by length? I have length and type (dressy, flashy, sporty, etc., Italian, Japanese). I do not have them by color yet (started doing that with my shoes then realized the shoe description had the color in it), though I have the matched shoes with the matching outfit.
I do have special outfits separated out - Era outfits, Medieval, Other Cultures, Costumes. The length folders are just for what I view as daily dresses for casual, dancing, parties, etc and I have recently started thinking I needed to sub-categorize the length into color folders because there are so many in each length category, especially my thigh/knee length.


From: Soji Slade
Went shopping this weekend. Took one look in one hair place I was told to go to and immediately turned and left after seeing that it included resize scripts. Same thing happened when I went to a clothing store and saw that on a box.
I absolutely hate that more and more designers seem to be moving towards mod-scripts rather true mod permission on hair and prim skirts. Eventually I might have to learn how to make my own because I will not buy those.
_____________________
♥♥♥
-Lil

Why do you sit there looking like an envelope without any address on it?
~Mark Twain~

Optimism is denial, so face the facts and move on.
♥♥♥
Lil's Yard Sale / Inventory Cleanout: http://slurl.com/secondlife/Triggerfish/52/27/22
.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/littleme_jewell
Rhaorth Antonelli
Registered User
Join date: 15 Apr 2006
Posts: 7,425
07-29-2008 14:10
From: Sassy Romano
I understand your sentiment but equally i might look at an item and think "hey that looks nice but for the awful long pants!"

Now, both opinions are valid and each has a financial effect and you know, in our opinion, some of us like to accessorise or mix and match and *improve* on the original and you cant set any amount of permissions to stop that!

So here's my offer to those hung up on forcing me to wear your product as only you intended...

Contact me in world and if I think it's good enough as it is, i'll tell you my modelling fee ;)



how about you just visit the store and decide if it is something you like, and if so and you can live with the permissions on said item, then just purchase it, or if you want other permissions contact the creator and see if they would be willing to switch perms, and we will skip the modeling fee ;)

my comment was more directed at items that use multi colors, such as a dress that has one color to the dress, another color on the buttons or beads or whatnot

that gets tinted and it looks awful (in my opinion)

however as of late I have been putting out more copy/mod stuff than transfer
_____________________
From: someone
Morpheus Linden: But then I change avs pretty often too, so often, I look nothing like my avatar. :)


They are taking away the forums... it could be worse, they could be taking away the forums AND Second Life...
Rhaorth Antonelli
Registered User
Join date: 15 Apr 2006
Posts: 7,425
07-29-2008 14:14
From: Sassy Romano
Great idea!

If you see me around in world, i'll be easy to spot. I'll be the one wearing a bin liner. They're about to come back in fashion you know!



rofl I actually made one for a customer and gave it to him (no way would I charge for that LOL)
_____________________
From: someone
Morpheus Linden: But then I change avs pretty often too, so often, I look nothing like my avatar. :)


They are taking away the forums... it could be worse, they could be taking away the forums AND Second Life...
Kitty Barnett
Registered User
Join date: 10 May 2006
Posts: 5,586
07-29-2008 14:17
From: LittleMe Jewell
I absolutely hate that more and more designers seem to be moving towards mod-scripts rather true mod permission on hair and prim skirts. Eventually I might have to learn how to make my own because I will not buy those.
If you don't let the creator(s) know they'll think they can just get away with it though.

"I'm not buying your hair since it has that resize script in it" might be taken wrongly, but "do you sell the hair as normal mod as well? I won't buy no mod hair a the resize script in it, it's clumsy and just not a substitute for actual editing" would get the message across as a request even though you know the answer in advance.

They'll unfortunately smarten up when the next copybot wave hits and they learn the hard way that the only people inconvenienced by no mod are their customers and not the "thieves" who don't care about permissions on the original.
Rhaorth Antonelli
Registered User
Join date: 15 Apr 2006
Posts: 7,425
07-29-2008 14:18
From: Kaimi Kyomoon
I make clothes for fun and a tiny bit of profit. I honestly don't have delusions that there is anything all that special about me or my stuff. I'm grateful that people even come into my shop and look around. I'm grateful some people do want what I sell and that I often get good feedback from customers. I'm eager to give refunds to anyone who changes their mind after they try on something they bought from me.


qft
could not have said it better myself
_____________________
From: someone
Morpheus Linden: But then I change avs pretty often too, so often, I look nothing like my avatar. :)


They are taking away the forums... it could be worse, they could be taking away the forums AND Second Life...
Kaimi Kyomoon
Kah-EE-mee
Join date: 30 Nov 2006
Posts: 5,664
07-29-2008 14:50
From: Ralektra Breda
I use AV Painter, it's available on Slex or you can get it inworld too, it's an awesome program for tweaking and saves a lot of trial and error uploads.
Hmm... It is a clever tool. I use it very occasionally at the beginning of the design process but I find that for perfecting seem matches and so on I need to go in world and see a texture on my real av in several different shapes and sizes.
_____________________



Kaimi's Normal Wear

From: 3Ring Binder
i think people are afraid of me or something.
Kaimi Kyomoon
Kah-EE-mee
Join date: 30 Nov 2006
Posts: 5,664
07-29-2008 14:53
From: Rhaorth Antonelli
qdt
could not have said it better myself
Thanks Rha! I especially appreciate it because you are one of the most creative, talented, and accommodating designers around.
_____________________



Kaimi's Normal Wear

From: 3Ring Binder
i think people are afraid of me or something.
Rhaorth Antonelli
Registered User
Join date: 15 Apr 2006
Posts: 7,425
07-29-2008 14:57
From: Sassy Romano
a fitting service where you send your shape numbers. In the end, I just sent my shape and a few minutes later received back skirts and top custom fit to my av.


THAT is the easiest way to custom fit, not everyone is willing to share their shape though

I wish wish wish SL would let us modify items attached to another avatar when we have the right to mod their items, custom fitting would become my new business LOL
_____________________
From: someone
Morpheus Linden: But then I change avs pretty often too, so often, I look nothing like my avatar. :)


They are taking away the forums... it could be worse, they could be taking away the forums AND Second Life...
Rhaorth Antonelli
Registered User
Join date: 15 Apr 2006
Posts: 7,425
07-29-2008 14:58
From: HoneyBear Lilliehook
Awww, thanks Czari :)

Sometimes, it's a real PITA doing that blog. I got discouraged one week not too long ago and ran into a girl at a hair sale, who told me she was a reader and really appreciated it. That gave me the strength to go on, and the "blahs" quickly disappeared!

I'm averaging about 50 visits a day. That's exciting to me...lol

heh you average hits is higher than mine

sometimes I wonder if my blog is worth it, then I think about how it lets me release thoughts, previews or just plain chatter without it breaking anyone's rules
and decide, yep it is worth it
_____________________
From: someone
Morpheus Linden: But then I change avs pretty often too, so often, I look nothing like my avatar. :)


They are taking away the forums... it could be worse, they could be taking away the forums AND Second Life...
Rhaorth Antonelli
Registered User
Join date: 15 Apr 2006
Posts: 7,425
07-29-2008 15:01
From: LittleMe Jewell

I absolutely hate that more and more designers seem to be moving towards mod-scripts rather true mod permission on hair and prim skirts. Eventually I might have to learn how to make my own because I will not buy those.


I refuse to put those things in the stuff I sell

admittedly I have put out some non mod prim stuff, and now, wish I had put them out as mod/copy

eventually I will be repacking any item (be it shoes, hair or clothing) that have prim parts to make the entire package mod/copy

that takes time though...
_____________________
From: someone
Morpheus Linden: But then I change avs pretty often too, so often, I look nothing like my avatar. :)


They are taking away the forums... it could be worse, they could be taking away the forums AND Second Life...
Cristalle Karami
Lady of the House
Join date: 4 Dec 2006
Posts: 6,222
07-29-2008 15:06
From: Kaimi Kyomoon
Hmm... It is a clever tool. I use it very occasionally at the beginning of the design process but I find that for perfecting seem matches and so on I need to go in world and see a texture on my real av in several different shapes and sizes.

Aditi, Aditi, Aditi!!!
_____________________
Affordable & beautiful apartments & homes starting at 150L/wk! Waterfront homes, 575L/wk & 300 prims!

House of Cristalle low prim prefabs: secondlife://Cristalle/111/60

http://cristalleproperties.info
http://careeningcristalle.blogspot.com - Careening, A SL Sailing Blog
1 2 3 4 5 6 7