plea to designers

My kind of person, LittleMe

I teach a class on Personalizing Avatars and one of the modules is how to be a "Quick Change Artist" - which of course involves putting complete outfits in folders. In the same class I also encourage my students to look for Copy perms on outfits/hair, etc. to be able to do this as well as Mod to be able to adjust the outfit to their liking.

A well-organized inventory is a good thing.

My plea to designers:

Please specify what layers your outfit comes in!!

Nothing worse then buying a great outfit just to see that it comes in layers that you can't use.

I see no harm in asking a store owner to sell the perms you want if they do not already have it in the store

and I am always willing to change from mod/copy to transfer if someone wanted that (and vice versa)


did not get a chance to check that place with the script yet

One thing I find really useful is a picture of the outfit included in the box, particularly when something doesn't have a name that you can relate to. Just include the same shot you put on the box to sell. One click and you can see what you've got, without having to try everything on, and save loads of time in trying to rename everything.

I hear what you are saying. With mod clothing items there is a big trade-off adjusting them with the sliders. Sometimes even if items are mod I don't make changes bc/ it would wreck the texture of the hem on pants and the overall look of the item to shorten them. The thing is, if they don't look the way I want, I also don't wear them.

Also, if they are no mod you can't adjust how baggy or tight fitting an article of clothing is, which has little impact on the texture, but can make an item more versatile.



Miriel has vendors that ask which permissions bundle you would prefer to purchase, as well as asking if you want an individual item or the whole set, so there is just one display for every item and blue drop boxes handle the rest as you purchase. I think she *may* have made the vendors herself, but I'm not sure. Either way, it is the most elegant way I've seen to handle the permissions question for items that would be sold at the same price, no matter the permissions. In addition, someone can buy a transfer version to give as a gift and she will exchange it, after it is given, for a copy version. Things like this have made me an extremely loyal customer.

(Even with a vendor like this the creator still has to set the permissions manually for each item and load them all into the vendor adding to their workload for each product they release.)


I consider permissions to be part of the package of what I am buying when I look at an item as much as its quality and cost. Also, even if a vendor has a sign up saying they will change permissions I am very rarely willing to trouble them with a request to do so if it isn't available in the store. That said, I respect every creators right to determine what permissions they are most comfortable with. I just factor it into what my understanding of the product is.

I used to sell all of my items no mod. It seemed the standard at the time, and because I sold furniture with embedded poses I feared that selling it mod would result in IM's from disgruntled customers who resized items and ruined the positioning of the poses. After reading posts in the forum I decided to switch most all of my newer items to modifiable and, despite my fears, have yet to recieve a single IM from a customer who "ruined" an object by modding it. Of course, I also noticed no real change in my sales numbers either.

Overall, I agree with Rha, it is impossible to make everyone happy all of the time.

I understand what you are saying and its good that you do but often shop owners are not around or don't respond and I like many shoppers do not want to have to ask for the perms we want - we just want to choose and buy. If there is a place offering a simillar type of item and they are using a system that gives me an option then thats what I am going to go with rather than IM the other shop owner and hope that I get a reply and that they will give me the perms I am after.

I still have not looked into the script for the alternate permissions option, and I am interested in it, getting ready to log back in (took a short break after putting out a new release)

anywho... I am only concerned that it may not work with the card script I already use which would suck, cuz I like that gift card system and it does get used (after all, who doesn't want to save money when shopping) (I sell the cards at 20% off and they are handy for gift giving of course)

Good point. 20% off is a great deal, and your regular customers may know that you are easy to contact and more than willing to adjust permissions if they have a request, so the alternate vending may be of little benefit to you. Plus, as you said, gift cards take care of the problem of gift giving.

I chjecked out the store lil linked to

I checked the items in the sales box, got the creator name off of the scripts inside, and looked at their profile, and got lost and confused... ugh

thinking about how it might work, basically script pops up and said by X or Y, you choose and it sells you X or Y

should not be too hard to code for anyone who knows how (or wants to learn and take the time to figure it out LOL)

however with a card system I doubt that the x or y thing would work, as the card scripts sells all items in the box except the scripts for the card system...

I am not going to stress on it, I have a mixture of copy stuff and transfer stuff (with and without mod, depends on the item)

so if someone really wanted something bad enough they could contact me to have it changed

if I stressed over the permissions and tried to please everyone, it would take all the fun out of it for m

I guess clothing customers like two for one deals. But clothing designers would probably rather have customers pay for each item. I do occasionally include a tighter and looser version of long pants.

as a designer it just depends on the item I am selling, some things I will make mod/copy, other things transfer

not sure why I pick the ones I do

I do know in some cases a mod piece of clothing getting tinted can ruin the look, and let's face it, when folks are wearing anything I create, they are basically showing the world my work, and if they have tinted it and it looks crass or some parts are looking strange because of the tint, that reflects on bad workmanship on my part

an example would be a light colored pair of jeans, you tint that and suddenly the button and all the stitching and faded spots, look wrong, because of the tint.

now, on the other hand, something like just released tonight, tinting is perfect, so in that situation I made them copy/mod, no transfer, and the base color is a light offwhite, so tinting them looks nicely done

(pantyhose full length, with optional built in panty (and panty with no hose) so yeah something like that just makes sense to have it modify and of course copy so it can be put into a lot of outfit folders at just the right tint)

Totally agree. Glitch pants no mod is bad... though I can totally undertsand why designers make the other items no mod.



In my opinion, on well designed and well thought out mesh clothes the buyer has no need to have mod rights, as normally the RL buyer will not take the scissors and needle to mod a good design. Can you imagine you take the scissors on an Armani or Dolce & Gabbana?

The ones who take the scissors in RL are usually able to create their own clothes, believe me my grandma and my mother were taylors, but still didn't modified good designs.

So if you need to modify, why don't you IM the creator of the item and ask him/her to mod it?

On prim items and glitch pants the situation is different. You must mod them as you need to fit'em on your avatar, also if you change shape you need to be able to do it again.



Sorry for the shameless plug, but mine are all transfer, though I don't sell gowns
In my designs you will have 2 or 3 pant models, and most probably you will have the items on all possible layers so you can play with them, use tattoos or mix them with other designer's stuff.

Fair enough, i have been clothes shopping once in 4 years so probably not qualififed to offer comment in the first place.

A script can only create a plywood duplicate. Textures, particle effects, sculptmaps, etc all require external tools or a modified viewer and as you pointed out they're not concerned with mod vs no mod so no mod really doesn't make a difference, external tools are always needed.

2-4 have nothing to do with copying.

There are a few stores who sell one set of permissions in their store and have signs out that you can get the other set of permissions on OnRez or SLX.

Maybe not as convenient as simply having two prims out but still better than a complicated script.

Oh, please!

Their clothes? Don't give them anymore ammo, they're bad enough as it is.


And the word is not "sacred." The words are delusional with severe bouts of paranoia and plenty of it.

You have to wonder whether photoshop or whatever means they use to make things is haunted because it's like some rare disease that seems to spread like wildfire. It grips most who venture into the field of making stuff for profit.

One minute they're ok, the next they've been transformed into thinking and actually believing they're real life honest-to-goodness designers. Even their demeanor changes where now they make it plain and clear they don't want to be bothered for exchanges or refunds. Not only this malady but they also believe every single item they have was invented by them for the first time ever in the history of humankind. Hence, why everyone must be out to get them.

What else can we mere mortals want from geniuses but to copy, envy and change everything they have? We should feel blessed they grace us with their creations. I, for one am pleased as punch.

I just recently went back to a store to buy some more hair. The original hair I bought from the store was modify/copy and I was really happy with it.

So I bought the new hair and it's no modify! Only resize scripts inside

The thing with hair (and most other prim attachments) is that avatars are different shapes. So as well as resizing I often need to get into some serious prim adjustment to make it fit around my face and head and look good. Resize scripts don't let you move individual prims.

I contacted the creator and she told me that if she sold the hair with modify perms it would be ripped off within 5 minutes. No offer of a refund and she wouldn't give me a modifiable copy. The vendor didn't say the hair was no modify, just that it was 'resizable/copy and no trans'.

So from my point of view I just wasted L$350, feel pretty miffed, and am never shopping there again.


Okay, so if you sell your stuff mod/copy a skilled builder can make 100 different versions of your hair (for example) for their own use. And I have to admit I've done this myself once or twice. But when I've done this I've generally loved the resulting styles so much I've gone back and bought another 15 hairdos from the same store.

I know people are also worried about their stuff being ripped off. But I feel the negative impact on sales from selling things no modify isn't worth the protection it affords.

With regard to people buying the white version of an outfit and tinting it to different colours, resulting in them getting all the colours for the price of one and also potentially making your creation look rubbish. Don't sell it in pure white!

Bottom line is, if something's no modify I won't buy it.

And you're comparing real life designers and their clothes with most of the half ass badly made stuff they put out for sale here?

Interesting comparisons.

Almost more often than having the glitch pants too long, I find that they're too short. I have dresses with prim skirts that fall below the knee, and the glitch pants are short shorts. Sorta defeats the purpose of glitch pants, if ya ask me. And of course, they're no mod. *grumble*

I'm also developing a strong preference for designers who make tops with a shirt layer and underpants layer that go together to give a "tucked in" appearance. I don't much care for the gap between a shirt layer and whatever I'm wearing on the bottom (exception being a top that's *supposed* to be midriff baring, like a shirt tied at the ribcage).

They're called badly made stuff and they're very common in sl.

Mod likely wouldn't help in this particular case though.

In most cases the glitch pants texture will be an alpha texture that simply stops where you see the "hem" of it on your legs; since the rest of the texture below the "hem" is entirely transparent there's nothing you could do about it, even with mod.

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One thing that might work would be to start heavily promoting clothing stores that offer demos for everything they sell (or ones that offer a refund policy) and IM the creators of clothing stores if there's something you'd like to buy but won't since there's no demo of it available to try on first.

Ones I can think of right away:
PixelDolls (demos for a lot of what they newly release comes through their update group and is not marked with demos but does have limited layers)
Hexed (demos for most everything she sells as well as uncomplicated C/NT and NC/T buying)
Blaze (demos for a lot of items and refund policy for NC/T items)

Keywords: well designed and well thought out... Please learn to read.

If you buy bad clothes in the first place, you were ripped off. Now, if somebody starts the interaction with you by tricking you, what reason he/she would have to allow you mod rights? They just don't care for else but fooling you, so why you would expect other treatment?

Remember their names and never go back. Nothing else you can do.

While I doubt this reply will be a popular one, I am gonna go ahead and speak my mind.

I refuse to buy certain items as no-mod, and as unfortunate as it is the ONLY way to demand what you expect as a consumer is to avoid products that are less than consumer friendly.

Sure there are alot of new designers that might be unaware of everyones special needs, what effects 1 consumer might not effect another but there are certain expectations that really should be met if you want to really satisfy the needs of the people putting Ls in your account and for the big designers putting RL money in your bank account.

Sure I can respect the fact that you do not wish to have your designs stolen but as EVERYONE should know unfortunately no-mod restrictions have not stopped content theft of clothing, skins, etc.

Being an inspiring designer myself I can empathize with the issue of content theft but seriously if you have to ask yourself if your just making it no-mod just to satisfy your own paranoia and forsaking your customers ability to use your product to its utmost ability to satisfy their individual needs then dont bother. I realize that sounds harsh but thats so true. As a consumer, even if your favorite designer is not packaging their product to meet your expectations then you should take the time to tell them and IF they ignore your needs as a consumer in their next line of releases then save your Ls for a product thats more attentive to your needs.

I can understand that designers are not going to go back over old designs but they should be conscious of this when creating new ones.

Here is a couple of big "Dont do its" IMAO Designers should not do it, consumers should not buy it.

1) Never.....I mean NEVER make pants no-mod. You have no idea what type of shoes/boots your customer wants to wear with those full length pants, If your pants are no-mod then really just quit. They are useless

2) Do not ever make separate colors that are separate only for the sake of you making more money. Sure I realize that for most designs especially anything containing more than 1 color and black must be done with separate uploads that is totally understandable but if your designs are recolored within the limits of SL then you suck, period. If your a consumer refuse to buy into this and sure.... even question the ethics of the designer.

This is the big one for me, people need to really demand the following *******

3) Do not make your designs only available in only 1 layer, it is totally unacceptable. First off it does not even cost you a separate 10l upload fee to place texture on a different piece of clothing. Use as many layers as possible despite what YOU think is not neccesary, cause trust me to someone else it is.

EXAMPLES:

All clothing despite what YOU think it is should be available in multi layers. All bottom pieces should be available in underwear layer and pant layers.
Tops should be available in undershirt layer, shirt layer, AND jacket layer.

This should include tattoo designers as well.

EVEN if you are designing full outfits and not just separates you should add every imaginable layer because you have no idea what your future consumer wants to accesorize with it.

Also if you are a designer selling the SAME texture on different clothing layers then STOP. It really is a spit in the face to your consumer base because its not costing you anymore money to upload and only a few seconds of your time. Dont try to sell them the underwear layer and the pant layer separate. Just offer ALL the layers to them as a whole, really....Im sure you are making enough Ls already dont be greedy or insult your consumers intelligence. Most of you designers are aware that your consumer wants certain items in multiple layers or you would not offer them separate in the first place.

Like I say, I do not mean to come off harsh but this really needs to be said. Bottom line if you are a designer and you make your clothing more consumer friendly then it is sure to effect your sales in a positive way despite how big you might already be.

And if you are a consumer then choose how you spend your L's and demand more. If you keep purchasing sub-par products that do not fit your needs WHEN they easily could, then do not buy it. Eventually designers will meet your needs if they want to stay in business and compete in the current market. Demand more from your favorite designers and let them know for the better of SL.

I understand your sentiment but equally i might look at an item and think "hey that looks nice but for the awful long pants!"

Now, both opinions are valid and each has a financial effect and you know, in our opinion, some of us like to accessorise or mix and match and *improve* on the original and you cant set any amount of permissions to stop that!

So here's my offer to those hung up on forcing me to wear your product as only you intended...

Contact me in world and if I think it's good enough as it is, i'll tell you my modelling fee

For people who are worried that a customer 'ruining' an outfit by modifying it may give you as a creator a bad name. People only ask who made something or inspect it to see who made it when it looks GOOD

My response when someone looks terrible is not, 'ooo I wonder who made their outfit?'

Not modifying is more likely to give a bad name in my opinion.

If I see someone walking around with a hairstyle I like but upon camming around their head there's numerous bald spots I'm not going to be inclined to buy it. Same with prims skirts that are obviously a bad fit. Or a belt that's 10 sizes too big, or a bracelet that's half stuck in someone's wrist. Etc, etc.

If I don't like it then I don't like it and won't give it a second look. If I do like it I'll have a camera and inspect peek but if it's not a perfect fit (as far as anything on SL can fit perfectly) then I'll have seen the designer name and know that their work can't be properly modified and not bother going to the store.

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Two weeks ago I was looking at a store and noticed a guy avie buying some outfits and then trying them on in the store. I really don't have any problem with what he was doing, but at the same time I'm not particularly inclined to buy the same dress after I've seen it modelled on a broad shouldered guy either and it's probably not how the creator wanted to see it used .

That's an extreme example, but there's no shortage of other examples either. If someone's so vain that they want absolute control over their creation that noone can ever use it in a way they don't want then please put do put the store full of warning signs so that people are aware that they have to live up to the creator's expectations and theirs alone.

Better yet, personally interview everyone before you even allow them to purchase from your store to make sure their shape, skin are up to your standards. Tell them what hair style and colour they should be wearing to best showcase your work, what accessories are acceptable, what places they will be allowed to wear it to and which not, etc .