What are Ginko Bonds worth? - 2

How can anybody discuss the facts when some people on here result to insults and insinuations.

You haven't even tried to just stick to the facts and debate it. I haven't seen anybody on this thread really try. How can anybody claim a person who results immediatelty results to insults and insinuations as being patient.

Most of your message is hyperbolic response to try to paint a worse picture. You make up thing I didn't even say and then you say those are wrong... no shit... and stupid to then come and blame me for being irrelevant on things I never said.

It's like your whole purpose on this thread is to come here and bash me at whatever cost. If you want to debate, fine... quit the twisting and grind the facts. You've only started with insults and insinuations.



Consider the insults and insinuations made by others, yep it could have taken much less than 20 pages. You just want to blame me for it, however. You didn't even care to point out the other insults and insinuations made. How more bias can you get?



I want the facts, and I'm not willing to except some fly-by person yelling insults and insinuations as a credible source. I figure if they have something reasonable to say they would act reasonable. Going off and yelling "ESL ESL ESL" and other "stupid" insinuations is not being reasonable.



No shit, but you think it funny to laugh at them anyway by saying that they made "bad analogies." That is exactly what you are doing.

Have you even tried to compare ponzi with CSS? No. You just assumed a "bad analogy."

Do you go around and laugh at what people say just because you don't understand and don't give the time to understand? So far I've seen you jump right in and just insult and insinuate. Care to make a change of heart?



I haven't tried to redefine it one bit. Every where you try to look-up some traditional knowledge about "face value" in regard to finance you will see it is tied to principal amounts. In the case of perpetual bonds, however, there is no principal amount, as there is only cash flow and market value much like a regular stock.

The prospectus doesn't even use "face value."

Priceless argumentum ad populum, indeed.



You are completely wrong to think I tried to redefine FV in any way. Find me a source that can back up your words. Or, are you just going to result to insults and insinuations like others on here as the attempt to prove that others are wrong?

That is the repeated bad ananology, just because someone can insult or insinuate doesn't make them right, but you promote it as if they are right just for the laugh of it.

Actually attempting discussing facts with you is more worthless.

I am perfectly happy to let you be wrong now and see no more reason to correct you.

You are wrong. You put no effort towards being reasonable because you fear to be wrong.

BNT used to be listed on WSE until there was a disagreement on future direction (WSE building used to stand on one of BNT's sims). BNT then moved over to ISE, the International Stock Exchange (). However, I don't think they were that happy over there because shortly afterwards they moved to AVIX, now SLCAPEX.

Current last price is 0.20 (0.14-0.20 bid / ask):

BNT used to be listed on WSE until there was a disagreement on future direction (WSE building used to stand on one of BNT's sims). BNT is now listed on SLCAPEX.

Current last price is 0.20 (0.14-0.20 bid / ask)

I'd put all this in a Google spreadsheet, but it's looking too ugly. Basically, it appears Ginko Guy poured the money into expertly selected losers, and now has crap for his troubles. I mean, it's one thing to be a swindler, but then to fritter away the loot on junk... it would be somehow more satisfying to think he'd blown it all on cheap wine and hookers.

No, I think the best case solution is LL steps in, identifies all Nick alts, seizes all their assets and distributes THOSE proceeds to the original depositors (and not the bondholders).

Thank you, Brodsky. How many shares does he own? I have no idea where to find SLCAPEX stuff.

According to Nick 75% of their money is off world. So the solution you identify will leave Nick with a lot more money - and investors less.

Your solution would be the right one though if LL were to see Ginko as a Scam.

Whether you think I am wrong no longer matters to me anymore.

Ive explain in great detail my understanding of the situation. If you insist on being refuted go read those posts.

Well actually that information is not publicly available for SLCAPEX stocks. However, I am told that Dzonatas knows. I suggest directing that question at her.

(Seriously she does know, 'cause she told me).

Or was it Andy? One of the two.

Problem is LL can only seize SL assets.

I do know because I'm NP!

Yeah I know. And so is Andy.

As of June 4th, 10,818,978 shares in BNT (Brautigan & Tuck Holdings) which has a 30-day average value of L$10,494,408.66

And how many do you still own?

thats why I called it Best Case lol - I didnt say it would ever happen.

Nick would basically have to volunteer to liquidate everything and pay people off - in return for this whole debacle ending I suppose.

Since technically all the money given him was a "Gift" as far as LL is concerned...

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Ironically its better for Nick to disappear than to fund repayment of these Bonds by suckering new investors.

Less people will get hurt.

Becuase each generation of the Ponzi requires a broader base to feed the last due to interest.

I dont think he will Ever be able to pay off the bonds at full price without new investors.

He doesn't need to, because while we're bantering he's merrily buying them up at a discount.

Sad, but true. Only way to pay everyone back would be to hit the rl lottery.

and btw that's a discount on a discount 'cause he already took 75% (thanks Qie for pointing this out).

Is he? With an Alt?

I must have missed this information being presented.

I don't think anyone can seriously for one moment believe he isn't buying them. And that's the irony, because if Ginko would be allowed to buy them officially they really would be trading higher!

So, theoretically...

HCB - 609300L = $2282.02 USD
HCL - 6,661,354.39L = $24,948.89
BNT - 10,818,978 sh * .2 (last) = 2163795.6L / 267 (exch rate) = $8104.10 USD.

$35,335.01 USD estimated securities holdings inworld.
9,434,449.99L worth of securities if liquidated today.

Not including the cost of the islands and Ginko rental revenue...

This is about 5% of the 190mil.

Damn. So the bond might STILL be trading TOO HIGH based on known assets.

Ill try to find that post about the 47 million.

Well if I were in Nick's shoes Id be buying them up on an Alt too.

The more he shrinks the debt highly reduces the likelyhood hell get sued.

And if he makes it small enough he can pay off the hold outs from the Ginko Assests - and probably skate away with some really decent $$$$ in his own pocket.