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SL, A Sleeping Beauty and Blue Mars

Imagin Illyar
Owner, Willowdale Estates
Join date: 6 Feb 2008
Posts: 290
07-08-2009 15:57
I met Ruben in BM too, great guy, interesting project. They have a website here:
http://www.eraserproject-mod.com/?page=news&lang=en
there are some pics in the Media.

The city limits thing has been discussed by Jim Sink in several interviews, not likely an NDA issue.

The most impressive project I've seen so far is by VSE (Visual Space Entertainment). I have a link to their video on my server here:
http://www.imagin.sl/bm.php

There is no reason to believe, at this point, that non-human avatars won't be allowed in BM. I haven't heard anyone say they won't be.
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Dakota Tebaldi
Voodoo Child
Join date: 6 Feb 2008
Posts: 1,873
07-08-2009 16:24
From: Brenda Connolly
Don't feel bad. There is only one topic I can claim any semblence of Geekdom on and that is The Trek.


That newest movie was the best one I've ever seen, by the way.
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Brenda Connolly
Un United Avatar
Join date: 10 Jan 2007
Posts: 25,000
07-08-2009 16:25
From: Dakota Tebaldi
That newest movie was the best one I've ever seen, by the way.

It was quite good, wasn't it? I can't tell you how many non fans I know have seen it and enjoyed it.
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Rock Vacirca
riches to rags
Join date: 18 Oct 2006
Posts: 1,093
07-08-2009 17:30
From: Brenda Connolly
It was quite good, wasn't it? I can't tell you how many non fans I know have seen it and enjoyed it.


Being a Trekkie then, I hope you can enlighten me on something.

Ruben was bombarding me with stats about his Starship, and although I have watched most episodes, and most of the films, he was talking about the Omega Particle, which he was saying was responsible for 90% of the energy in the Big bang, and using a molecule of this stuff for a drive enables Infinite Speed, ie the ability to exist in two places in the Universe at the same time.

I do not recall ever seeing or hearing about this. Was this from an episode, a movie, or is it likely to be one their team's extensions to the saga?

Rock
Jade Angkarn
Always a Night Owl
Join date: 6 Oct 2006
Posts: 209
07-08-2009 18:01
I don't get why sim size limits are really any big deal. I mean... even with the "small" sim sizes in SL... there's so much to do/create/explore/build in SL... for me personally, it's a total non-issue...

Perhaps it's the way I use SL or the fact that a lot of my building in the past has focused on "tiny" prims, lol, but currently my home is on about 1/4 sim size and I can go for days or weeks not even venturing into into rooms/areas of my home.

Complaining about mainland "blight" is strange...
if you don't like it...
Don't spend time on the mainland. That's just a part of SL.

What I know of Blue Mars doesn't impress me at all right now. I don't care how graphically superior it is; I prefer in-world content creation, period.
Brenda Connolly
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Join date: 10 Jan 2007
Posts: 25,000
07-08-2009 18:08
From: Rock Vacirca
Being a Trekkie then, I hope you can enlighten me on something.

Ruben was bombarding me with stats about his Starship, and although I have watched most episodes, and most of the films, he was talking about the Omega Particle, which he was saying was responsible for 90% of the energy in the Big bang, and using a molecule of this stuff for a drive enables Infinite Speed, ie the ability to exist in two places in the Universe at the same time.

I do not recall ever seeing or hearing about this. Was this from an episode, a movie, or is it likely to be one their team's extensions to the saga?

Rock

It was mentioned in Voyager.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Omega_Directive

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Omega_molecule
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Novis Dyrssen
Girl Geek
Join date: 6 May 2007
Posts: 1,452
07-09-2009 00:38
From: Brenda Connolly
It was mentioned...


Now, stop that, Brenda, or I might start developing a major crush on you! :p
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Brenda Connolly
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Join date: 10 Jan 2007
Posts: 25,000
07-09-2009 05:32
From: Novis Dyrssen
Now, stop that, Brenda, or I might start developing a major crush on you! :p


Then I better not mention I'm going to my very first Convention at the end of the month. :cool:

http://www.creationent.com/cal/stnj.htm
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Lord Sullivan
DTC at all times :)
Join date: 15 Dec 2005
Posts: 2,870
07-09-2009 06:01
Does anyone know how the in world economy will be structured as I heard that only certain people, city owners will be able to cash out and creators if unable to buy server space will have to rent from city owners to sell their stuff so the general public whilst being able to buy the currency will not be able to cash out of the game?

Am I right or wrong?
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Imagin Illyar
Owner, Willowdale Estates
Join date: 6 Feb 2008
Posts: 290
07-09-2009 07:10
From: Lord Sullivan
Does anyone know how the in world economy will be structured as I heard that only certain people, city owners will be able to cash out and creators if unable to buy server space will have to rent from city owners to sell their stuff so the general public whilst being able to buy the currency will not be able to cash out of the game?

Am I right or wrong?


I'm a beta developer at BM and I'm sure it's not breaking the NDA to say that this simply hasn't been established yet - as in, it's not even been mentioned, I have no reason to believe that anyone who can buy currencey couldn't cash out currency.
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Alisha Matova
Too Old; Do Not Want!
Join date: 8 Mar 2007
Posts: 583
07-09-2009 07:41
I think this may be the most inclusive public info Lord.

http://npirl.blogspot.com/2009/04/new-answers-and-more-questions.html

both cashing out(or not) and space rental is touched on.

I would suggest signing the NDA and contacting Jim directly, if you want current info.
Lord Sullivan
DTC at all times :)
Join date: 15 Dec 2005
Posts: 2,870
07-09-2009 07:47
From: Alisha Matova
I think this may be the most inclusive public info Lord.

http://npirl.blogspot.com/2009/04/new-answers-and-more-questions.html

both cashing out(or not) and space rental is touched on.

I would suggest signing the NDA and contacting Jim directly, if you want current info.


Thanks to you both :)
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Raudf Fox
(ra-ow-th)
Join date: 25 Feb 2005
Posts: 5,119
07-09-2009 07:48
Wow, being an end user there really sucks for us creative types. We can't create stuff there and even if we could, we couldn't cash out.

Yeah, gotta say, Blue Mars might be a great place to visit, but I wouldn't want to stay.

Wait, it says if you are a vendor... how much does it cost to become one?
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Handy Skytower
Registered User
Join date: 17 Aug 2008
Posts: 127
07-09-2009 08:04
From: Dave Herbst
The former will be the likely outcome. The best analogy would be that of your ISP. They are motivated to profit by providing you access and bandwidth. Your participation is two-fold. Firstly, you can use it to access anyone's public sites, and second, you can provide a service (ie) website, forum etc. Provided what you do is not illegal, broadly offensive or technically excessive, the ISP has no interest in your content.

Blue Mars is aiming for these goals. Initially, SL had these goals, but shortcomings in the developmental structure have caused them to break away from "arms length" service provision. Much of SL's manpower is a "workaround" to these issues. Let's face it, Linden Lab is way too irrepairably involved in the whole social engineering aspect of the virtuality. Supply Linden dumps tens of thousands of real dollars into the LindeX for profit under the guise of economic stability, the G-team spends thousands of hours monthy dealing with griefers, scammers, extortionists etc. The whole "adult" thing is yet another patch on a dog's breakfast of a platform.

Blue Mars' aim, is to provide state of the art technology to those who have bigger plans than simply roleplay or content creation. Although these things are not discouraged, they are leaving it up to city owners to provide that service and to enforce community standards.

If or when BM flourishes, there will invariably be a global environment based upon a grid of communities, where common standards are developed. Undoubtedly, there will be "simplistic" tool sets for those who are less inclined to learn/use/buy/own high end applications. I don't know a single person who is objected to offline building.

It's pay to play. Like electric power or gas, you will be metered by CPU usage. There will be free accounts, but if one chooses to be a "blingtard", then they will have to pay to do so. In SL, those who pay tier, subsidize those free accounts so they can wear hoochie hair, laggy AOs and bling bling.


I'm sorry but the more you tell me about BM the more uninterested I am in it.

And the more negative you say about SL the more it makes me love it.
The blingtards, trailer trash, poor builders, griefers and scammers are just at teeny tiny fraction of a fraction of the people in SL, and, in the end, to me at least, add to the color and wonderfulness that is SL.

SL is not going to go away, I doubt seriously it will feel the impact of BM at all. SL is getting better all the time, though if you are a regular reader of these forums you might not believe it.

Let the BM do what BM is going to do and let SL be SL and in the end time will tell.

I suspect that 5 years from now SL will be celebrating its 11th birthday and BM's will be a small, elitest community of snobby builders with great products that few ever see. If its not a memory.

Long Live Second Life!

Handy
Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
07-09-2009 08:05
From: someone
Speaking of demographics, what about men playing as women, or folks who prefer not to be gender-specific? How will that play out?

It will be a matter of how they registered. We aren’t going to verify gender.
So if you pick "Male" you're stuck with Male? If you pick "Female" you're stuck with Female?
From: someone
If you are Sony Pictures and creating a virtual Monaco and it is a black tie-only space, when a user gets there, the system can prompt that user to let them know that this is a black tie-only area and provide information about the only costumes that will be available in that region. You don’t want people running around in Speedos in your James Bond world.
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Handy Skytower
Registered User
Join date: 17 Aug 2008
Posts: 127
07-09-2009 08:19
From: Ting Luminos
nice post Rock

I think it's important for people to understand the shear scale and grandeur of what's possible in the cryengine.

I'm also a BM beta developer. I'm very well aware of the Cryengines capabilities and basically there are almost no limits to what could be done.

I love SL ( as you all know by now ) but I fear the small sim sizes are it's achilles heel and once BM is running with economy in place etc, etc,

There really is the possibility of mass migration from one virtual platform to another.

I can only hope there is an SL V2 with super sizesd sims.


I'm sorry but I disagree, will people venture over to BM and be amazed? Sure. But in the end they'll log out of BM and go back to SL where all their friends are, their inventory, their homes and communities and tell their friends about how pretty BM is.

Some will go forever, sure, but I bet its a very very tiny percent of SL's population.

Handy
Lance Corrimal
I don't do stupid.
Join date: 9 Jun 2006
Posts: 877
07-09-2009 08:32
the more i read about BM, the less interested i get.

there's no point in "pretty" if it is all just pre-generated content that only a "chosen few" can change/create.

I mean, I pretty much stopped playing "normal" games when i started to log into SL...
... with the single exception of NWN. Because everybody can be DM there and create their own environment/storyline.
Virrginia Tombola
Equestrienne
Join date: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 938
07-09-2009 09:00
I think it's safe to say that Blue Mars will not be a clone of Second Life. This might be good or bad, depending your own likes and dislikes.

There are many games/virtual worlds that are extremely popular with no avenue for user created content at all. Others, such as the Chrysis series, allow users to do some modding. Those pictures Rock was posting were not from Blue Mars (as someone correctly pointed out, that would violate the NDA), but were user created content using CryEngine, the same game engine Blue Mars will be using.

Popularity and success of a platform does not hinge upon the unlimited ability for all users to create. This might turn off many who like the Second Life model, but at the same time, at least some control over content has beneficial effects in terms of platform performance.

That said, Blue Mars will be even farther along the road of user created content than the platforms I've mentioned, but not as far along as Second Life. The Blue Mars model is one of user created content combined with control over who is on the developer list. You will not be able to create an account and start building immediately. Instead, you'll have to ask first.

But really, almost anyone who asks has been given developer privileges. The term "chosen few" is nonsense (sorry, Lance, but it is). I'm a BM developer and I'm hardly a professional 3D artist: I haven't even finished school in RL yet. It also didn't cost me anything other than giving my RL information to Blue Mars and signing an NDA. Those might be objectionable requirements for some, but again, Blue Mars isn't using the Second Life model.
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Clarissa Lowell
Gone. G'bye.
Join date: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 3,020
07-09-2009 09:49
Well it remains to be seen how Blue Mars' gated community approach will translate to enjoyability.

As much as LL is trumpeting the "predictable experience" lately, there's something more exciting and valuable, I think, in the UNexpected.
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Sindy Tsure
Will script for shoes
Join date: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 4,103
07-09-2009 09:54
The term "gated community" always sounds like "we don't like your type" to me..
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Clarissa Lowell
Gone. G'bye.
Join date: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 3,020
07-09-2009 09:57
Yes, me too. Who's doing the 'deciding' as to who gets to create content there, and what are the parameters?
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Virrginia Tombola
Equestrienne
Join date: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 938
07-09-2009 10:03
Clarissa's term, and I think she meant it to be pejorative. It is, however, inaccurate. Nobody is being screened on the basis of race, colour, religion, creed, orientation or excessive posting on internet forums. You do have to ask to be part of the beta and sign an NDA, but that's standard for beta releases. I will admit that you could make the argument that all virtual worlds are gated communities in the sense that they have control over who gets to use them. One can be banned in Second Life just as one can be in any other game/virtual world.
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Horses, Carriages, Modern and Historical Riding apparel. Ride a demo horse, play whist, or just loiter. I'm fair used to loiterers.

http://slurl.com/secondlife/Caledon%20Eyre/48%20/183/23/
Sindy Tsure
Will script for shoes
Join date: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 4,103
07-09-2009 10:06
From: Virrginia Tombola
Clarissa's term, and I think she meant it to be pejorative. It is, however, inaccurate. Nobody is being screened on the basis of race, colour, religion, creed, orientation or excessive posting on internet forums. You do have to ask to be part of the beta and sign an NDA, but that's standard for beta releases. I will admit that you could make the argument that all virtual worlds are gated communities in the sense that they have control over who gets to use them. One can be banned in Second Life just as one can be in any other game/virtual world.

Actually, I think it was that Dave guy who says he works for BM that used "gated community" first..
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Clarissa Lowell
Gone. G'bye.
Join date: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 3,020
07-09-2009 10:09
Thank you Sindy.

The use of gated community is hardly pejorative, Virginia. *rolls eyes*

(And I CLEARLY meant it in terms of content creation/aesthetic control.)
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Marin Mielziner
Registered User
Join date: 19 Mar 2007
Posts: 293
07-09-2009 10:27
From: Dave Herbst
Comparing SL to Blue Mars is likened to comparing McDonalds to the Waldorf Astoria.

If all you expect is burgers, don't look at Blue Mars for a quick meal. By the same token, don't walk into McDonalds and expect chateaubriand.

SL is trailer trash, while BM is a gated community.

BM is not about inept blingtards, it's about innovative developers.


Much of the the arguments here SL vs. BM seems to hinge on the graphical aspects, but what about that part that (to me anyway) keeps many in SL? It's NOT economics, or creating things for sale; it's about COMMUNITY. Creating items in a little sheltered workshop, or building a beautiful sim that no one visits won't keep a place alive for long.

What I see happening in SL now is a renaissance of sorts; Arts and Educational groups and projects are on the rise. This will keep SL alive if LL can realize the potential there. Dave Herbst, do you even know what's all out there in SL? I know people who for the first time in their lives have been exposed to poetry, or to theatre via SL! I know people who have discovered their real writing talent through literature groups in SL. There are whole historical areas that emphasize RP , or simply historical research for not only building, but interaction by its residents and visitors that have "educated" many people. All all this is resident-created. It all this doesn't even take into account the real world educational institutions in Second Life.


Maybe Blue Mars will have that one day, but right now it's pretty pictures. I'll visit it and "ooh and ahhh" over everything probably. But unless I can find a sense of community it'll be like a museum I visit for the afternoon.
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