Good Child Skins
|
|
Scylla Rhiadra
Gentle is Human
Join date: 11 Oct 2008
Posts: 4,427
|
10-26-2009 16:19
From: Milla Janick I do. It's the policy disallowing sexual ageplay that Linden Lab instituted in 2007. It appears to have been remarkably successful. If one encounters sexual ageplay, AR the participants.
One? Out of half a million or so active residents? That suggests the problem has been virtually eliminated. If the policy has been this effective, is there really any need to alter it? Well, I don't think I was suggesting it needs to be altered. And yes, "one" is pretty good. But I can hardly pretend that I have met a half a million or so active residents, so I am not entirely as sanguine as you that "the problem has been virtually eliminated." I guess all I am arguing against is complacency. That needn't mean changing the official policy, or rounding up kiddie avatars and shipping them off to camps, but I also don't feel very comfortable with simply smiling and affirming that, because I am not seeing it, it isn't happening. Maybe the problem has been "virtually eliminated." Or maybe the participants are simply better at hiding it. It would be nice to if we had a better idea what actually WAS happening on the grid, if anything. But I'm not sure how to go about that. From: Milla Janick Real pedophilia is a much more serious matter, but it does not appear to be a significant problem in Second Life, either. Children aren't supposed to be here in the first place, which makes it a little more difficult for predators to find them. The solution to that problem (if it actually is a problem) is to tighten up account verification. Agreed 100%.
_____________________
Scylla Rhiadra
|
|
Scylla Rhiadra
Gentle is Human
Join date: 11 Oct 2008
Posts: 4,427
|
10-26-2009 16:39
From: Raudf Fox One question: Do you preach to people who are RPing a Gorean slave or BDSM sub that their RP is wrong and should be banned because their masters "might" be spousal abusers in RL? (I am actually assuming that you don't, so please don't throw things at me!) Uh, no. I take your point, sort of, but, again, I'm not defending their proposed solution . . . nor indeed, even insisting that solutions are necessary. But disagreement with these people over whether there is a problem, and what should be done, needn't mean belittling their own passionate engagement with what is, after all, a serious issue. I can think they're wrong without implying that they are also "lazy," or "playing" at their engagement with the issue. From: Raudf Fox *sighs* I just feel that "protesting" something like the existence of child avatars (who don't engage in sexual ageplay) in Second Life redirects what might well be very useful energies and resources away from the actual/RL problems. In other words, this kind of "protest" actually does little forward the cause (because SL is supposed to be an ADULT place, no RL kids allowed), be it educational or actual hands on work. Educating is a really good, supportive form of activism. It encourages people to THINK. It doesn't attack and shut people down. I generally agree, especially with your point about shutting people down. From: Raudf Fox Sorry if I come off harsh. I just got tired of literally hearing, "I want the government to make laws to keep my kids safe for me. I'm too busy to do so for myself." Nah, you don't come across as harsh. I take your point. But I think that both defensive measures -- educating kids -- and more proactive ones (which in my view ALSO involves education, to try to reduce the incidence of child molestation) are necessary.
_____________________
Scylla Rhiadra
|
|
Marianne McCann
Feted Inner Child
Join date: 23 Feb 2006
Posts: 7,145
|
10-26-2009 16:39
From: Raudf Fox *sighs* I just feel that "protesting" something like the existence of child avatars (who don't engage in sexual ageplay) in Second Life redirects what might well be very useful energies and resources away from the actual/RL problems. In other words, this kind of "protest" actually does little forward the cause (because SL is supposed to be an ADULT place, no RL kids allowed) This. It's a very "easy and -- to use the big word of this thread -- lazy way to "protect them children." Help people *like myself* who have worked in RL anti-violence, anti-molestation, and/or anti-abuse projects. Donate your time and money. to *real* causes.
_____________________
  "There's nothing objectionable nor illegal in having a child-like avatar in itself and we must assume innocence until proof of the contrary." - Lewis PR Linden "If you find children offensive, you're gonna have trouble in this world  " - Prospero Linden
|
|
Axel Oakleaf
Registered User
Join date: 26 Aug 2009
Posts: 20
|
10-26-2009 17:46
From: Bianca Kendall It isn't for myself. I am a shape creator, and I decided to do a little girl shape for people who want to be children in SL. Not all of SL is mature in nature, and there are people who want to be children for various reasons, including for some, because they want to avoid being propositioned all the time. TY,because there is more to SL than adult content,like there are various military groups and various dogfighting airplane groups in SL,and there are also musuems and art galleries,and other stuff in SL. |
|
Ceka Cianci
SuperPremiumExcaliburAcc#
Join date: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 4,489
|
10-26-2009 18:26
From: Madeline Breil From: Julianne Kaestner There are innocent uses for child avatars. If someone can't imagine that, if someone can't see it as something other than dirty and sexual, well... as you say, they may not be a pedofile, but they do have an problem.
To the dirty-minded, all things look dirty.
Your crack about "submersed" and "therapy" is an assumption. There can be as many reasons to use a child avatar as there are people. I'm certainly not doing therapy, and I doubt that I am any more "submersed" than you.
People project reasons on us, imagine that it's all about sex or it's for therapy. Those "reasons" are just in your head.
If "sex" and "therapy" is all you can come up with, it's not my fault. It's your imagination that's limited. However, if those are the only reasons you can imagine, the only motives you can think of, what does that say about you?
It would be easy to assert that everyone in SL is there because they don't want to face problems in their RL. It wouldn't be true, but it would be easy to say and to believe.
It would be easy to say that everyone in SL is there for the pixel sex. Again, it wouldn't be true, but it would be easy to say. And the less you know about it, the easier it would be to believe.
Believing in generalizations like that is just plain lazy.[/QUOTE
..................................................................................................................................
I gave some example, but it's nice to see you've missed the point as many of your counterparts will as well. This is entertainment and your entertainment is not as important as the potential risk.
"he only motives you can think of, what does that say about you?" Insult intended to divert, yeah not going to work. "To the dirty-minded, all things look dirty" Another diversion that wasn't well thought out. Here's a saying that would work better, people who care about the welfare of children don't wish to see any avenues open to pedophiles when there is no really good reason for them to exist.
What I see primarily from people who strongly support kid avatars are "me, me, me" attitudes and the "only pervs think pervs use this for that" Both are ethically lazy, ignorant and selfish attitudes. You are willing to enable a pedophile just as long as your needs are met.
Oh lets go through the reasons that an adult would play a child.
Pedophile, no need to explain or should I explain because there seems to be some major thickness here? Will explain if necessary, please don't make it necessary.
Reliving your childhood because of some trauma. "me, me, me" Will give you a pass on the ethically lazy but it really isn't all about you.
Reliving your childhood because you are entertained. "me, me, me" plus ethically lazy.
Well, yeah that's about all it is. If there are others that don't fit into these categories, list them.
I also saw some idiot mention the term bigot. I'll look through and address that moron specifically. Bigotry against a cartoon character in a game,,,seriously. Idiot! Con Troll Alt Delete |
|
Lias Leandros
mainlander
Join date: 20 Jul 2005
Posts: 3,458
|
10-26-2009 18:38
From: Milla Janick I do. It's the policy disallowing sexual ageplay that Linden Lab instituted in 2007. It appears to have been remarkably successful. If one encounters sexual ageplay, AR the participants.
One? Out of half a million or so active residents? That suggests the problem has been virtually eliminated. If the policy has been this effective, is there really any need to alter it? Milla you and I have discussed this last month -so you are aware of the data; Since LL put this sanction in place there have still been 180 actionable reports for virtual pedophilia in Second Life. This does not include the hundreds of reports that LL did not take action on because the AR was not filed with proper information and the hundreds that folks do not report. All-in-all, the sanction LL was forced to put in place in 2007 (after denying that the problem existed and then having to admit it after the SL pedophilia video was posted on YouTube) is a miserable failure. And the same characters are piling on anyone that asks this question. Koko, Millie, Immy, Mari and the rest of the crew - give it a rest and stop attacking people that don't agree with you. The Goreans don't get this agressive when folks post about them - and they are more heavily armed than you all are.
_____________________
 http://slurl.com/secondlife/Bear/214/199/107 Join in SL open enrollment CLUB JOBS to announce new DJ and Host Jobs for free. And on Avatar's United http://www.avatarsunited.com/groups/club-jobs
|
|
Rene Erlanger
Scuderia Shapes & Skins G
Join date: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 2,008
|
10-26-2009 18:39
From: Scylla Rhiadra Well, I don't think I was suggesting it needs to be altered. And yes, "one" is pretty good. But I can hardly pretend that I have met a half a million or so active residents, so I am not entirely as sanguine as you that "the problem has been virtually eliminated."
I guess all I am arguing against is complacency. That needn't mean changing the official policy, or rounding up kiddie avatars and shipping them off to camps, but I also don't feel very comfortable with simply smiling and affirming that, because I am not seeing it, it isn't happening. Maybe the problem has been "virtually eliminated." Or maybe the participants are simply better at hiding it.
It would be nice to if we had a better idea what actually WAS happening on the grid, if anything. But I'm not sure how to go about that.
Agreed 100%. From my own experience in being 3 years in SL of which 2.5 years selling some Kid avatar products, there have only been 5 cases were we had to ban that avatar and send an AR report to LL due to their unhealthy interest towards Child avatars in terms of what was being said in Chat ....the 5 reported were 4 male adult avies and 1 female adult avie. (separate incidents) I have yet to encounter a child avatar acting irregular or showing suggestive behaviour. I dare say they do exist....but i haven't seen it yet! So overall i would have to say LL's 2007 policy change has been a success. I think one should be more concerned about IRC and other types of chat rooms, where there's no sort of real adult verification process.....and you get RL under-18's coming into contact with Adults. A number of well documented paedophilia incidents reported in the media have stemmed from contact being made via these chat rooms.
_____________________
Scuderia Group  Plush Enigma Shops: https://slurl.com/secondlife/Plush%20Enigma/50/63/22/ Plush Giga Shops: https://slurl.com/secondlife/Plush%20Giga/202/82/22/
|
|
Kara Spengler
Pink Cat
Join date: 11 Jun 2007
Posts: 1,227
|
10-26-2009 18:43
I was wondering when Lias would show up.
_____________________
Those Lindening Lindens!
'O predictable experience,
O predictable experience,
Never shalt we define thee.
Our users think that means no lagging,
But we say they want no shagging.
O predictable experience,
O predictable experience,
We love you null expression.'
|
|
23rdDjin Negulesco
Unfinished Build Master
Join date: 30 May 2007
Posts: 661
|
10-26-2009 18:46
From: Kara Spengler I was wondering when Lias would show up. she wasn't willing to give it a rest without attacking people that don't agree with her.
_____________________
"What am I in the eyes of most people--a nonentity, an eccentric, or an unpleasant person--somebody who has no position in society and will never have; in short, the lowest of the low. All right, then--even if that were absolutely true, then I should one day like to show by my work what such an eccentric, such a nobody, has in his heart." -Vincent van Gogh
|
|
Rene Erlanger
Scuderia Shapes & Skins G
Join date: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 2,008
|
10-26-2009 18:46
From: Kara Spengler I was wondering when Lias would show up. same old , same old! 
_____________________
Scuderia Group Plush Enigma Shops: https://slurl.com/secondlife/Plush%20Enigma/50/63/22/ Plush Giga Shops: https://slurl.com/secondlife/Plush%20Giga/202/82/22/
|
|
Ceka Cianci
SuperPremiumExcaliburAcc#
Join date: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 4,489
|
10-26-2009 18:54
From: Lias Leandros Milla you and I have discussed this last month -so you are aware of the data; Since LL put this sanction in place there have still been 180 actionable reports for virtual pedophilia in Second Life. This does not include the hundreds of reports that LL did not take action on because the AR was not filed with proper information and the hundreds that folks do not report.
Is that 180 in like the last 6 years?  Also how did you get the math on those hundreds not filled and then the hundreds that failed? Is hundreds like 200 or 300 or 700 or 999?or does hundreds just sound juicy enough on it's own? hehehehe  |
|
Rene Erlanger
Scuderia Shapes & Skins G
Join date: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 2,008
|
10-26-2009 18:57
From: Ceka Cianci Is that 180 in like the last 6 years? Also how did you get the math on those hundreds not filled and then the hundreds that failed? Is hundreds like 200 or 300 or 700 or 999?or does hundreds just sound juicy enough on it's own? hehehehe Well 5 out of the 180 were ours! ....and they were Adult avies!
_____________________
Scuderia Group Plush Enigma Shops: https://slurl.com/secondlife/Plush%20Enigma/50/63/22/ Plush Giga Shops: https://slurl.com/secondlife/Plush%20Giga/202/82/22/
|
|
Ceka Cianci
SuperPremiumExcaliburAcc#
Join date: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 4,489
|
10-26-2009 19:03
From: Rene Erlanger Well 5 out of the 180 were ours! ....and they were Adult avies! wow so like omg let me do the math here... *starts looking to the sky while counting with her fingers * ok like hundreds minus millions equals like OOoooMgosh!!.. thats like a kabillion that didn't give a crap about it |
|
Katheryne Helendale
(loading...)
Join date: 5 Jun 2008
Posts: 2,187
|
Facepalm, indeed!
10-26-2009 19:19
From: Madeline Breil Lance, that's just an insult in order to silence people. A pedophile will be right on the front lines behind the idiots who say,,,no harm done here. I'm sure there are some already. Have there not been cases already? People who speak out against the potential use of this format for pedophiles are not secretly pedophiles,,,that makes absolutely no sense at all. Speaking out against and trying to ban an activity that they enjoy, seriously?
........................................................................................
I hear people say well it's an adult behind that child avatar. Does anyone really think a pedophile cares as long as there is gratification even only if it's visual? I personally believe that any outlet that allows a pedophile to do this is wrong.
I'd like to see child avatars removed from the game. In real life, adults who pretend to be children don't actually look like children. So someone can just make really big diapers ok. The potential harm outweighs anyones enjoyment factors. Sorry, it's a game and entertainment. If you are submersed in this game for therapy reasons,,,how freaking healthy can that be? You need to concentrate on making your real life something you can live with instead of running here. THIS IS ENTERTAINMENT!!! Perspective people, this isn't a civil rights issue. I *knew* it was just a matter of time before a thread requesting sources for child avatar skins degenerated into another "I want all child avatars wiped off the face of the grid because they are all the tools of pedophilia" rant. Seriously, this is a very unhealthy obsession you have here; but what is more sad is that you didn't even have the conviction and fortitude to post this with your main account, choosing instead to hide behind an alt. |
|
Julianne Kaestner
Clan of the Care Bear
Join date: 13 Oct 2008
Posts: 82
|
10-26-2009 19:26
From: Lias Leandros
And the same characters are piling on anyone that asks this question. Koko, Millie, Immy, Mari and the rest of the crew - give it a rest and stop attacking people that don't agree with you.
If you'd read the thread, you'd see it's self-defense. And can you take your own advice? I saw your thread attacking Milly on SC. |
|
Katheryne Helendale
(loading...)
Join date: 5 Jun 2008
Posts: 2,187
|
10-26-2009 19:29
From: Rene Erlanger Wow, I'm flabbergasted! You're so narrow minded it defies belief.....maybe SL is not the environment for you.....wait for the release of DISNEYWORLD instead! Probably not a good choice. Disneyworld has children, after all. |
|
Axel Oakleaf
Registered User
Join date: 26 Aug 2009
Posts: 20
|
10-26-2009 19:29
From: Malia Writer Sigh. We get a thread that rapidly devolves into "OMG all people with child AV's are nasty perverts" every couple of weeks or so. Argent's and Brenda's pictures above pretty much sum it up.
Apparently for some people, sexual fantasy is the ONLY reason to be in SL, and they assume that everyone else is in SL for the same reason.
I'm just glad to see that you did get a couple of serious replies to your question. Yeah,i know some people who dislike furries,and me being a furry i'm often trolled by peole who think that we are perverts who do stuff in those fursuits,there are always going to be bad people in any group. |
|
Julianne Kaestner
Clan of the Care Bear
Join date: 13 Oct 2008
Posts: 82
|
10-26-2009 19:39
From: Lias Leandros
And the same characters are piling on anyone that asks this question. Koko, Millie, Immy, Mari and the rest of the crew - give it a rest and stop attacking people that don't agree with you.
If you'd read the thread, you'd see it was self-defense. It's really an enormous drag to be periodically attacked for activities that I never engage in and have absolutely no interest in. |
|
Ceka Cianci
SuperPremiumExcaliburAcc#
Join date: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 4,489
|
10-26-2009 19:48
From: Julianne Kaestner If you'd read the thread, you'd see it was self-defense.
It's really an enormous drag to be periodically attacked for activities that I never engage in and have absolutely no interest in. Lias has it backwards..just look at the first page..You don't even have to disagree with their crew..Just mention the word child anywhere and it's Go time LOL Where can i find a good child prim script!! |
|
Axel Oakleaf
Registered User
Join date: 26 Aug 2009
Posts: 20
|
10-26-2009 19:57
From: Ceka Cianci Lias has it backwards..just look at the first page..You don't even have to disagree with their crew..Just mention the word child anywhere and it's Go time LOL Where can i find a good child prim script!! Well i feel it's more of people's fear of anything different,because so many people are in a thing to confirm. And i consider myself a semi-babyfur,more of a teenfur. |
|
Ceka Cianci
SuperPremiumExcaliburAcc#
Join date: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 4,489
|
10-26-2009 20:03
From: Axel Oakleaf Well i feel it's more of people's fear of anything different,because so many people are in a thing to confirm. And i consider myself a semi-babyfur,more of a teenfur. oh i agree..and really it's ok for them to be scared..the only time i have a problem with it is when they go running down the street screaming in fear trying to scare the crap out of everyone else LOL  |
|
Katheryne Helendale
(loading...)
Join date: 5 Jun 2008
Posts: 2,187
|
10-26-2009 20:07
From: Scylla Rhiadra It would be nice to if we had a better idea what actually WAS happening on the grid, if anything. But I'm not sure how to go about that. In the time I have been in SL, I have encountered lots and lots of people; but I have yet to meet anyone I could identify as a sexual ageplayer, let alone actually encounter sexual ageplay. Do I think that it doesn't exist? No. I don't think we can ask for or realistically expect perfect numbers in an imperfect world. But I am not going to go looking for sexual ageplayers either. I am not going to perv around the deep, dark recesses of SL to see what people are doing. Does that mean I don't care? Certainly not! If I see anything that looks like sexual ageplay going on, I'll AR it in a heartbeat! But I am not going to obsess over it, either, looking for Commies under my bed. I think the fact that sexual ageplay has been driven far enough out of SL that one has to look really hard and dig really deep in order to even find any traces of it speaks volumes. Driven underground? Perhaps. But you're never going to eliminate it entirely, not even if LL banned all child avatars. In fact, I posit that the number of active sexual ageplayers in SL is so small that, if child avatars *were* banned, the resulting reduction in numbers would be immeasurable - and, I'm sorry; but eliminating a perfectly legitimate form of roleplay enjoyed by thousands of people who don't have sex on their brains just to reduce the number of sexual ageplayers by an immeasurable amount is just too high a price to pay. |
|
Axel Oakleaf
Registered User
Join date: 26 Aug 2009
Posts: 20
|
10-26-2009 20:12
From: Ceka Cianci oh i agree..and really it's ok for them to be scared..the only time i have a problem with it is when they go running down the street screaming in fear trying to scare the crap out of everyone else LOL IMHO,the people on here need to get their head out of the gutter. SL is more than sex,you can fly planes,join military groups,race cars,visit art galleries and all sorts of stuff. If you come to SL for sex,then IMHO your missing out on everything. |
|
Marianne McCann
Feted Inner Child
Join date: 23 Feb 2006
Posts: 7,145
|
10-26-2009 20:19
From: Ceka Cianci Where can i find a good child prim script!! My store is on a sim border - will I suffer bad lag from child agents?
_____________________
"There's nothing objectionable nor illegal in having a child-like avatar in itself and we must assume innocence until proof of the contrary." - Lewis PR Linden "If you find children offensive, you're gonna have trouble in this world " - Prospero Linden
|
|
Marianne McCann
Feted Inner Child
Join date: 23 Feb 2006
Posts: 7,145
|
10-26-2009 20:28
From: Ceka Cianci Is that 180 in like the last 6 years? I took the liberty some time ago to contact the person who put together those stats, Tyche Shepherd, who posted them to the forums across the street ( http://www.sluniverse.com/php/vb/general-sl-discussion/34534-what-did-naughty-people-do.html). To quote her "There were 182 published cases of "Community standards: Ageplay". The bulk are around Nov/Dec 07 when the TOS was changed, then declining but picking up again round late 2008 to decline again. Next to no cases this year (9 in total)" She also provided me with this bar chart.  My *suspicion* is that the Nov/Dec cases - indeed, many of the 07 and some 08 cases, were focused around a handful of locations that existed at that time; each of which was booted from the grid some time ago, or left of their own volition, going to an open sim. Further, Tyche noted: " I also had a look at the violation descriptions and in most cases after nov/dec 07 many cases are for indecency as opposed to explicit age play."
_____________________
"There's nothing objectionable nor illegal in having a child-like avatar in itself and we must assume innocence until proof of the contrary." - Lewis PR Linden "If you find children offensive, you're gonna have trouble in this world " - Prospero Linden
|
