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What wishes would you like SL's content creators to grant this Christmas?

Ralektra Breda
Template Painter
Join date: 7 Apr 2008
Posts: 1,875
11-28-2008 05:32
Everything in my shop is sold in folders. I like to look at folders when I shop so that's what I offer.

Almost everything I offer comes on all available layers, because that is how I like it when I shop as well. So sometimes you might look at a folder for a simple dress and find 7 items in there. With a more complicated item, for example a dress with different skirt options, there might be 10 or 15 items in the folder or even more.

The simple truth is, you can't please everyone, so you do what you think is best, choose a format, and roll with it.

In my shop that means: no transfer, folders, and multiple layers. Some people won't be happy with that and will shop elsewhere, to which I say...the no copy people need sales too :)

*walks off whistling 'Garden Party'*

It's all right now
I've learned my lesson well
You can't please everyone
So you got to please yourself :)
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Cheree Bury
ChereeMotion Owner
Join date: 6 Jun 2007
Posts: 666
11-28-2008 05:59
I wear bib overalls most of the time in SL.

If you make bib overalls, the bib needs to be on the jacket layer so I can wear a shirt underneath it.

I own about 20 pair of overalls and about a third of them came with the bib on the shirt layer. Put it on the jacket layer or give me multiple options and I will be happy.

I always ask the creator to fix it for me and all but one has done so.
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Marybeth Cooperstone
Registered User
Join date: 18 Nov 2008
Posts: 138
11-28-2008 06:27
This may be too much to ask for, but:

In the future it would be nice to not have separate upper and lower but allow upper body items (jackets, in particular) to fall below the waist. I have suit pants and skirts that must be worn with the jacket because the bottom part of the jacket is printed on the pants and skirt. It would be nice to be able to have a jacket that goes below the waist and be able to wear it with any pants or skirt, and be able to wear pants and skirt bought with a jacket to be worn without the jacket.

Mary
Rhaorth Antonelli
Registered User
Join date: 15 Apr 2006
Posts: 7,425
11-28-2008 06:30
From: Marybeth Cooperstone
This may be too much to ask for, but:

In the future it would be nice to not have separate upper and lower but allow upper body items (jackets, in particular) to fall below the waist. I have suit pants and skirts that must be worn with the jacket because the bottom part of the jacket is printed on the pants and skirt. It would be nice to be able to have a jacket that goes below the waist and be able to wear it with any pants or skirt, and be able to wear pants and skirt bought with a jacket to be worn without the jacket.

Mary



that would be nice... too bad designers can't make that change :(
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Marybeth Cooperstone
Registered User
Join date: 18 Nov 2008
Posts: 138
11-28-2008 06:40
From: Rhaorth Antonelli
that would be nice... too bad designers can't make that change :(

There are so many things that designers have no control over. But I hope others who can make that change consider it. I know it must be a real pain for designers to have to include parts of jackets on pants and skirts when making a sut.

Mary
Rhaorth Antonelli
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Join date: 15 Apr 2006
Posts: 7,425
11-28-2008 06:48
From: Marybeth Cooperstone
There are so many things that designers have no control over. But I hope others who can make that change consider it. I know it must be a real pain for designers to have to include parts of jackets on pants and skirts when making a sut.

Mary


one thing that could be done is put the bottomof the shirt on the pants layer, so folks could wear their own pants on the underwear layer (if they have them on the underwear layer) so they can still have the untucked look with any pants
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From: someone
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Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
11-30-2008 05:38
From: Rhaorth Antonelli
well.... why not buy it if you like it (impulse shopping) and then contact the creator for the extra layers you might want, what is the worst that happens, they say no, you are stuck with something you wanted anyway?
Because if it's on the wrong layer, you know you're not going to be able to wear it with the outfit anyway?

And there's such a shortage of good guys outfits.

Here's the biggest problem I have with guys outfits: combo layers. Suit and shirt/suit and vest/vest and shirt on the same layer. If you've got a three piece top, you need to release it with 5 layers... don't try and cram it into two.

Suit on jacket layer
Vest on jacket layer
Vest on shirt layer
Shirt on shirt layer
Shirt on underwear layer

If it's a suit/shirt/tie combo, which I have seen on occasion, include the tie on both the shirt and jacket layer like it was a vest. All the ones I've seen have the shirt on underwear and then you're stuck with tight sleeves.

And probably one combo layer (suit and vest or vest and shirt) so you can have loose sleeves with all three layers showing.

And if you're selling a single piece, include it at least up or down one layer from the obvious one. All three is best.
From: Ralektra Breda
In my shop that means: no transfer, folders, and multiple layers. Some people won't be happy with that and will shop elsewhere, to which I say...the no copy people need sales too :)
I don't suppose you do guys clothes? Don't make me cry.

-----------------
The rest of what I want from clothing designers:

1. Let me edit the damn things.

I won't buy anything no-mod. Period. I'll even turn my nose up at no-mod freebies, a lot of the time, even if I really like them. I don't understand why clothing makers think making clothes "no mod" is a smart thing to do. What possible benefit do you get from it?

2. Useful poses on vendors.

I don't care if you think it looks better to have the model looking back at you over his shoulder if it means I cant see what the front looks like. OK, I rarely see them that extreme, but I still have to do a lot of guessing.

3. Contrast matters.

Black clothes against a dark background? Photos taken at night? I don't care if you're selling a tuxedo or a goth outfit, I want to see what it actually looks like, not how cool your backgrounds are.

4. Jaggies suck.

Even on otherwise nice clothes, I'll sometimes discover that a pocket or detail was left unfiltered, and so it looks like it's still got the rough stitching in because you can see every pixel from the original outline.
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Argent Stonecutter
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Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
11-30-2008 05:58
From: Faithless Babii
Absolutely agree with the ability to mod prims on another person, that would ROCK . Maybe a tick box to give permission on the friends list, like we have now for objects etc..
What you do is put them on a posing stand, have them rez the item in world, position it and adjust it without attaching it. They still have to reposition it once it's finished but that's rarely the sticking point.
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Argent Stonecutter
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11-30-2008 06:05
From: Gabriele Graves
More vendors getting rid of that stupid, spammy and totally useless CopyBot protection scheme that is common.
I'd settle for public flogging of the people who keep selling it despite knowing it's absolutely worthless... all the way back to when it was originally made. By the time version 2 it was released they'd already modified the copybot to ignore !quit. We had someone who had set it up on a sim corner, and the way sensors glitch on the sim edge it was spamming people everywhere on our sim... and it took forever to locate.
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"And now I'm going to show you something really cool."

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Argent Stonecutter
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Random off-topicness
11-30-2008 06:12
From: Gabriele Graves
More vendors getting rid of that stupid, spammy and totally useless CopyBot protection scheme that is common.
I'd settle for public flogging of the people who keep selling it despite knowing it's absolutely worthless... all the way back to when it was originally made. By the time version 2 it was released they'd already modified the copybot to ignore !quit. We had someone who had set it up on a sim corner, and the way sensors glitch on the sim edge it was spamming people everywhere on our sim... and it took forever to locate.
From: Fand Aeon
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From: Limonella Sorbet
Please can shops stop boxing every item. I have spent hours unboxing, renaming folders so I know what the outfits actually look like, and then sorting them into folders by category.
I've had clothes come in a box, containing a readme or a landmark and another box, so the actual content is buried two boxes deep.
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"And now I'm going to show you something really cool."

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Argent Stonecutter
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11-30-2008 06:18
From: Ralektra Breda
I really never did get the 'no mod' glitch pants...I mean, 75% of the time, there is nothing special about the pant except the color matches the skirt.

All my clothing is copy/mod. I used to keep a vendor up that sold transfer items, and no one ever used it...I got a few ppl who said they refuse to use vendors and that's about it.
That raises a question. What does "transfer" have to do with "mod"? I have a bunch of transferrable clothes that are moddable... making something transferrable doesn't mean it has to be no-mod. But I keep seeing people refer to "copy/mod" and "transfer/no-mod" as if there was some law that clothes had to be one or the other.
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"And now I'm going to show you something really cool."

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Argent Stonecutter
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11-30-2008 06:29
From: Rhaorth Antonelli
saw something neat that I am considering adding to my stuff

when you wore the item (ie just wear attaches to hand) the box auto unpacked into your inventory.. I thought that was neat, and am gonna see if I can script it, should not be hard to do, just give items when attached...
Make it a HUD. When you wear it, it flips out a couple of button prims "shirt layer", "jacket layer", ...

They can click on the button and it gives them a folder containing just the appropriate components. Should be pretty easy to script.
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"And now I'm going to show you something really cool."

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Cristalle Karami
Lady of the House
Join date: 4 Dec 2006
Posts: 6,222
11-30-2008 07:15
From: Maelstrom Janus
...that creators of all kinds of objects from houses to furniture to vehicles included the textures they used or the names of their textures and where they could be obtained... if I want to put my own name (for example the name of a boat) or text (signs for example) on any object it would be nice to have the texture to export to paintshop or whatever to be able to make my own modicfication....

The where to get it could probably be accommodated, but giving copies of the textures I buy? No. I try to respect copyright.
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Teetah Beck
Bad Barbie
Join date: 18 Apr 2007
Posts: 117
11-30-2008 09:27
A bucking Horse like bart the bucking bull. I have searched and searched but not finding one,, has anyone seen it? If not can anyone make it? lol Ive have a few asking about them to me also, so I know they would be a seller;)Tee
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Rhaorth Antonelli
Registered User
Join date: 15 Apr 2006
Posts: 7,425
11-30-2008 09:52
From: Argent Stonecutter
Make it a HUD. When you wear it, it flips out a couple of button prims "shirt layer", "jacket layer", ...

They can click on the button and it gives them a folder containing just the appropriate components. Should be pretty easy to script.



but then that would create different folders for each layers (or set) they choose

I like the idea of it being on the hud though

(me gonna think about this option for unpacking)
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From: someone
Morpheus Linden: But then I change avs pretty often too, so often, I look nothing like my avatar. :)


They are taking away the forums... it could be worse, they could be taking away the forums AND Second Life...
Rhaorth Antonelli
Registered User
Join date: 15 Apr 2006
Posts: 7,425
11-30-2008 09:54
From: Argent Stonecutter
That raises a question. What does "transfer" have to do with "mod"? I have a bunch of transferrable clothes that are moddable... making something transferrable doesn't mean it has to be no-mod. But I keep seeing people refer to "copy/mod" and "transfer/no-mod" as if there was some law that clothes had to be one or the other.


in most cases folks combine the copy/mod because of the fact that people are going to mod it, they will want to make a backup

That is why copy/mod because a common permission combination

especially with prim items

reg system clothes can be transfer.mod because it if fairly simple to return to the "default" settings with just a few sliders (unless someone changes out the texture then you are SOL) so again, copy.mod is a good combination

mod.transfer is not bad either but no way to make a backup if someone wants to mod it
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From: someone
Morpheus Linden: But then I change avs pretty often too, so often, I look nothing like my avatar. :)


They are taking away the forums... it could be worse, they could be taking away the forums AND Second Life...
LittleMe Jewell
...........
Join date: 8 Oct 2007
Posts: 11,319
11-30-2008 10:06
From: Rhaorth Antonelli
From: Roisin Hotaling
Just for the record, I like things in as many layers as possible. If someone doesn't want to have so many options, they can toss out the extra layers, right?
that is what one would think, but the impression I have gotten from the comments, is that they just do not bother to purchase it because they do not want to sort through the stuff

(I could be wrong though, it is easy to misunderstand things when it is in text)
The only time I hate having lots and lots of layers is when the layers are not well named and I have to spend lots of time putting each piece on to figure out exactly what it is. I will quite often delete the layers I don't want, or maybe make a sub-folder of what I consider the basic outfit with the layers I will use the most - but all pieces need to be well labeled for this approach and I do not want to have to rename every item myself.
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Rhaorth Antonelli
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Join date: 15 Apr 2006
Posts: 7,425
11-30-2008 10:09
From: LittleMe Jewell
The only time I hate having lots and lots of layers is when the layers are not well named and I have to spend lots of time putting each piece on to figure out exactly what it is. I will quite often delete the layers I don't want, or maybe make a sub-folder of what I consider the basic outfit with the layers I will use the most - but all pieces need to be well labeled for this approach and I do not want to have to rename every item myself.


doesn't the icon show what layer it is on?

or do you mean if it is like undershirt layer for a bra and undershirt layer for a top in the same box, not labeled as to what each piece is...

if that is what you mean then yes, that will be VERY annoying

I try to name my stuff so that ppl know what it is just by the name
(hard to sometimes, but I try)
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From: someone
Morpheus Linden: But then I change avs pretty often too, so often, I look nothing like my avatar. :)


They are taking away the forums... it could be worse, they could be taking away the forums AND Second Life...
Argent Stonecutter
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Join date: 20 Sep 2005
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11-30-2008 10:12
From: Rhaorth Antonelli
but then that would create different folders for each layers (or set) they choose
Yes. Is that a problem? :)

No, really, I end up with separate folders for each outfit anyway.
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"And now I'm going to show you something really cool."

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Ralektra Breda
Template Painter
Join date: 7 Apr 2008
Posts: 1,875
11-30-2008 10:15
From: Argent Stonecutter
That raises a question. What does "transfer" have to do with "mod"? I have a bunch of transferrable clothes that are moddable... making something transferrable doesn't mean it has to be no-mod. But I keep seeing people refer to "copy/mod" and "transfer/no-mod" as if there was some law that clothes had to be one or the other.


the transfer stuff was modable too, sorry didn't explain that well :P

other than that, it is a personal choice of the designer, I don't do it so I don't really know why.

Edit: I have decided that in January I will learn to make guys clothing well if it kills me :) I have managed to come up with a couple things (I have a man's sweater in my freebie bag right now) that have been ok. After my first few run ins with brawny chest stretch (ha) I hightailed it back to women's wear but it's time to learn something new.
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Argent Stonecutter
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11-30-2008 10:17
From: Rhaorth Antonelli
in most cases folks combine the copy/mod because of the fact that people are going to mod it, they will want to make a backup
What I'm getting at is that there is this meme out there that clothes should be "copy mod" or "transfer no-mod". I don't understand why copy and modify are tied together in people's minds.

This gets back to my question about why anyone would sell clothes no-mod. I'm not talking about prim items here, I'm talking about clothes layers. I've had storekeepers tell me that "of course" their transferrable clothes are no-mod, as if I'm crazy for asking, and I simply don't understand what the point is.

And as for prim items... if I buy it, and I screw it up, that's my responsibility. Don't tell me I shouldn't have the right to screw up something I bought. But at least I can understand the logic there. It's the clothes layers that boggle me.
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"And now I'm going to show you something really cool."

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Argent Stonecutter
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11-30-2008 10:19
From: Rhaorth Antonelli
doesn't the icon show what layer it is on
Not always. I've got a lot of clothes where some inventory glitch has made them all have the pants icon or the shirt icon or the skin icon, no matter what they are.
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"And now I'm going to show you something really cool."

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Ralektra Breda
Template Painter
Join date: 7 Apr 2008
Posts: 1,875
11-30-2008 10:20
From: Argent Stonecutter
I've had storekeepers tell me that "of course" their transferrable clothes are no-mod, as if I'm crazy for asking, and I simply don't understand what the point is.


if you find out, fill me in lol
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Rhaorth Antonelli
Registered User
Join date: 15 Apr 2006
Posts: 7,425
11-30-2008 10:35
From: Argent Stonecutter
What I'm getting at is that there is this meme out there that clothes should be "copy mod" or "transfer no-mod". I don't understand why copy and modify are tied together in people's minds.

This gets back to my question about why anyone would sell clothes no-mod. I'm not talking about prim items here, I'm talking about clothes layers. I've had storekeepers tell me that "of course" their transferrable clothes are no-mod, as if I'm crazy for asking, and I simply don't understand what the point is.

And as for prim items... if I buy it, and I screw it up, that's my responsibility. Don't tell me I shouldn't have the right to screw up something I bought. But at least I can understand the logic there. It's the clothes layers that boggle me.



never said it was logical hehe

maybe (just guessing) some make it no mod, so that someone else can not replace the texture with something that is not so good, then pass it off as the work of the one they bought it from
(on transfer items I mean)
also transfer mod prims can be dangerous for the creator... as folks can empty them out, put malicious scripts in them, pass them off to folks then it looks like the creator is someone other than the one who one thought it was (except for the script, and even then, a mod script can be redone to be a malicious script, with the creator being an innocent person)

as for no transfer yes copy should be modable... (and I think I have some stuff I need to double check the settings on... sometimes SL likes to play tricks on me and change the perms)
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From: someone
Morpheus Linden: But then I change avs pretty often too, so often, I look nothing like my avatar. :)


They are taking away the forums... it could be worse, they could be taking away the forums AND Second Life...
Argent Stonecutter
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11-30-2008 10:47
From: Rhaorth Antonelli
maybe (just guessing) some make it no mod, so that someone else can not replace the texture with something that is not so good, then pass it off as the work of the one they bought it from
Why would anyone bother? What's the motivation?
From: someone
also transfer mod prims can be dangerous for the creator... as folks can empty them out, put malicious scripts in them, pass them off to folks then it looks like the creator is someone other than the one who one thought it was (except for the script, and even then, a mod script can be redone to be a malicious script, with the creator being an innocent person)
I've been giving scripts out full perms in full perms objects for three years, and the worst that's happened is that someone decided to make them no mod no transfer and sell them for three times what I sold them for.

If someone wants to hide who they are, there's plenty of full perm scripts created by Lindens to play with.
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